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Are Albanians related to Greeks?

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Are Albanians related to Greeks?
    Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 15:42
Or making (wait, i'm haivng little trouble with this word now) fun for us.

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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 17:17



(and it is making)
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  Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 22:07

Originally posted by neritan


Dyqanxhi(storekeeper) isn't an albanian word. is an turkish word
Exist dyqan for 'Store, shop' in albanian, but is an word loan from turkish
 

dyqan (albanian), dkkan (turkish) these words are arabic: dukkn.

 


  

 

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 01:41

But Turkish has developed from Arabic or was on it's own group?

I am telling you, these posts by Aiolos were the best I had seen in months.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 06:51
Turkish isnt related with Arabic. Arabic is Semitic, Turkish is Ural-Altaic. But Ottoman governmental Turkish was heavily influenced with Arabic vocabulary.
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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 06:58
Indeed, as it can be seen in the language thread, most mediterranean civilisations have exchanged linguistic wealth at some point in history.
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  Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 12:54
Originally posted by rider

But Turkish has developed from Arabic or was on it's own group?

I am telling you, these posts by Aiolos were the best I had seen in months.

Who is Aiolos?

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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 16:56
Originally posted by rider

But Turkish has developed from Arabic or was on it's own group?

I am telling you, these posts by Aiolos were the best I had seen in months.



still going in direct of your nose eh?

no it has not.Turkish is belong to ural-altay along with the other Turkic languages
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 14:08
Sorry, I meant Aeolus..
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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 18:04
Actually, Aiolos was the correct spelling in Greek
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 03:14
And the god of winds he was too.
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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 03:56
And farts...
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  Quote Illyrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2005 at 06:44

no it's not true Albania has nothing i mean nothing in coment with Albania in cascuan region thats typically Greek and Serbian propaganda



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  Quote dorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 06:05
Albanians have nothing in common with the Albanians from Caucasus? So it's a simple coincidence that Albanians are first time mentioned in Balkans in the 11th century when the Albanians from Caucasus came to Balkans?
"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 13:36
Originally posted by dorian

Albanians have nothing in common with the Albanians from Caucasus? So it's a simple coincidence that Albanians are first time mentioned in Balkans in the 11th century when the Albanians from Caucasus came to Balkans?


That's a Serbian-nationalist theory that doesn't seem to have much ground, does it? How do you know that the "Albanians" from Caucasus came to the Balcans at all. I thought that was just a name used in ancient times for Azerbaijan, the same that Georgia was called Iberia (nothing to do with Iberians from Spain). Britain in general and Scotland in particular were also called Alba and Albion at times. Besides, Albanians called themselves Shqiperi or something like that.

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  Quote dorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 17:40

I only write what I have read from history books. Albanians came to Balkans in 1043 or something after they have gone to Italy from Caucasus. So, what happened after that? They disappearred and another nation with this name emerged at the same time? Why is this just a Serbian-nationalist theory? And what's the truth? That Albanians are the ancient Illyrians? It's broadly known that the Albanian language doesn't have any special relationship with the language of Illyrians. Maybe the truth is somewhere between these two theories.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 02:44
Originally posted by Illyrian

no it's not true Albania has nothing i mean nothing in coment with Albania in cascuan region thats typically Greek and Serbian propaganda

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Albanian origins http://www.kosovo.com/history/kosovo_origins/ko_chapter4.htm l

< =text/>
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  Quote Alkiviades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 03:32

The Illyrian=Albanian connection is a very nice fairy tale if you don't look into the details. If you do, the truth unveils and you find yourself with a very empty shell of an hypothesis.

The fact that the Illyrian remnants contributed to the Albanian gene pool is undeniable - as it contributed to the gene pools of Serbia, Bosnia,Greece, possibly Bulgaria, and the surroundings.

But to draw a direct line from Albanians back to Illyrians is ridiculous. It is a nice fabrication though and was useful to those who have come up with it (surprisingly, not the Shqiperii themselves, they just used the framework others created for their own purposes).

To the subject of the topic (although not much has been discussed about it):

There is a rather huge case of intermixture here. The Alvanites or Arvanites are a substantial part of the Greek gene pool (no matter what purists say). Whole areas (Zagorohoria, Elefsina and several villages in Peloponesus and Epirus) and Islands (Hydra, Spetses) had a predominately Arvanitic population to begin with and several very known heroes of the Greek war of independance are Arvanites. Hope I haven't annoyed the purists too much

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 12:10
Alkiviades

Arvanites were not Albanians, well not 'pure' at least..
They were a mixture of Albanians and local Hellines, Hellines that had been in the area (Epiros) since the time of King Pyrros... From the ancient district of Arvonos as recorded in the Alexiad book 4 by Anna Komnene..

It becomes even more clear that these two people are totally different while reading the letter of Jacomo Barbarrigo towards the Germans in 1479 where he stated:

"The Arvanites and the Hellines are nothing more than the same people that hate every foreigner"

or the Venetian Senate's declaration in 1471 :

"The major part of our mercenary troops are Hellines and Arvanites Hellines"

Mazaris in his 'Epidhmia Mazari en Adou' while describing the population of Peloponnesos describes Arvanites and Albanians as two separate people, obviously because he saw the difference before the fairy tale similar to the one you mention above was constructed..

While we must accept that there was an Albanian population in Hellas as  various toponyms like Spata, Liosia, Lala in Peloponnesos...etc (from the homonymus tribes).. disclose..
Note that, Florentine Dukes Nerios I and Antonio I brought in approx. 5000 to work in the fields of Athens, which is how the areas got the names.
Later during J.Katakouzinos' reign approx. some 10.000 were 'invited' and another 10.000 during the reign of T. Palaiologos A'..

There are always a couple of misconceptons based on the well organized propaganda, for example: the place-name Koropi, that is nothing more than pure Albanian propaganda which actually smears the good name of a real Hellinic patriot. That of DHMHTRHS KOROPHS killed in the battle of Marathon in 1824.
The name is nothing more than an intentional corruption of the ancient name KRWPIAS in honor of the dead hero...

The ancient name is seen in Thucydides, The Peloponnesian War book 2 . 19,2

"and putting to flight some Athenian horse at a place called Rheiti, or the Brooks, they then advanced, keeping Mount Aegaleus on their right, through Kropia, until they reached Acharnae, the largest of the Athenian demes or townships."

While the Arvanites undoubtably did, the Albanians under no condition did assist us in our war of independance.
On the contrary they only acted in their own personal interest as seen in the event of siding with Manuel Komnenos to take over Mani and overthrow the Paleologos (after asking for the district of Korinth) only to be slaughtered by Tourahan when he returned, for their rebelion against the empire.

Or the Lala and Mpardouniotes situated in Peloponnesos by the Ottomans to assist in their attacks on Mani.. one of them being the massacre of Koroni that lead to the capture of Mauromixalis...
These were the same clans that terrorized the entire peninsula as seen recorded in Kolokotronis' and Mauromichalis' memoirs, Finley, Castelan, Segios Makraios, Sathas, Tsigos, Berar...etc

And before someone dares to make claims on Marko Botsari :

"Here, secluded from the rest of the world, and before the Ottoman arms or the plundering Albanians invaded their peace, the family of the Bozzari ruled supreme, and Marco, tending his father's flocks, conceived those ideas of military glory which were afterwards developed in combating for the liberties of Greece."

SOURCE:
Greece and the Levant; or, Diary of a summer's excursion in 1834: with epistolary supplements. By the Rev. Richard Burgess., Burgess, Richard, 1796-1881.
P.78


Edited by Phallanx
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote Alkiviades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 13:39
I wasn't suggesting that Arvanites are ethnic Albanians or ever were. But they, as you say too, are considered an early intermixture of hellenic and albanian and possibly other elements, to create a distinct group, a group that throughout its history considered to be part of the Greek nation and not of the Albanian.

Hence the fact they were separated early from the main body of the Albanians and were recorded independently.

But the fact that they have Albanian (whatever that means) blood as well, is why I mentioned them in a topic that deals with the connection between Albanian and Hellenes. 
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