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Are Albanians related to Greeks?

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Are Albanians related to Greeks?
    Posted: 16-May-2005 at 04:40

Originally posted by vulkan02

blah blah blah read page 2 Neritan explained to you a lot of those words and the facts... go have a life my half Greek, half black, half turk, half whatever else Greek friend

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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 13:22

If you are a Greek but might have Turkish genes and you dont like beign called a turk then im sorry you took it as an insult. But the thing is that since you took it as an insult then you must be racist toward the Turks. Just because i claim your half turkish that shouldn't insult you ... if your not racist yourself that is.

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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 13:26

Albania = 75% Dinaric ( Illyrian ), 10% West Mediterranean (m.c. on the coast), 10% Alpine ( Epirus, Dorians), 5% Noric = 80% Dinarik / 10% UP / 10% Med..

same source Phallanx used to disprove Turkish population in Anatolia.. gotcha

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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 13:44

Originally posted by Phallanx

Originally posted by vulkan02


Illyrians never liked the Greeks or Hellization therefore they never bothered to learn their language or add Greek words.... their raided their ships and ports tho


Are you refering to the Hellines that colonized Illyria since the 6th BC???



Proof of the colonization of Illyria by Hellines is this "Illyrian helmet" clearly of Pelloponessean style.

But anyway, those were Illyrians you're an Albanian, what connection do you have to them???? NONE

yeah and the they were all kicked out by king Agron and his predecesors

 

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  Quote Perseas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 14:01
Originally posted by vulkan02

If you are a Greek but might have Turkish genes and you dont like beign called a turk then im sorry you took it as an insult. But the thing is that since you took it as an insult then you must be racist toward the Turks. Just because i claim your half turkish that shouldn't insult you ... if your not racist yourself that is.

So according to your unique logic if i tell you that as an Albanian you must have eg. Serbian blood and you react you should be a racist towards Serbs.  Man, what kind of drugs are you on???

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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 14:04
if i have Serbain blood and my great great great great grandma or grandpa was a serb i have no problem with it. The point is that what i choose to be today makes me what i really am. Therefore no im not racist toward the Serbs because i don't react in the first place.  
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  Quote dorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 21:44

Ancient Illyrians are said to be the ancestors of modern Albanians. But they were mixed up so much with Turks (mainly) and Greeks during Byzantine and Ottoman Empires that they have change a lot. That's why some people call them Turk-Albanians because they had close relationships and mix with Turks.

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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 21:50
(please delete) I tried to edit it, but freaking lost it.

Edited by Iskender Bey ALBO
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 18:45
While I find  myself unable to yield any accurate opinion on the question of the origin of Albanians, I find quite shocking the Balcanic ultranationalims that some display. It is obvious that populations don't change throughtly due to migrations but only partly. Natives are often assimilated either by grade or by force and, If Illyrians dwelled in Albania, Croatia, Bosnia and Montengro at some time in history it is more than reasonable to think that they didn't just become extinct but that they survived through assimliation to Romans and later other peoples... Equally those peoples that lived in the area before Illyrians arrived around 1300 BCE also had become assimilated by Illyrians, as the Paleolithic natives also were assimilated by the carriers of the Cardium-Printed pottery that were maybe originary from Lebanon. Populations have moved in history but not that much. Most people have always remained in their places and it is logical to think that Albanians and other peoples of the region descend at least partly from Illyrians as they were known in ancient historical times.

This is the same as assuming that many French descend largely from Gauls, despite their language being of Italian origin and their name coming from a German league of tribes; or that accepting that most English people could eventually track their ancestors to ancient Britons rather than to Anglos, Saxons and Jutes; or that most Moroccans descend from Berbers rather than from Arabs, etc.

Fortunatley people tends to accept each day more that their ancestry is not a linnear history but a complex mixture and that nations are not the same as "races", as one speaks of ethnicity (language and culture) and the other of genetics and these often are largely unrelated.
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 22:55
I just wanted to add that this idea that we came from the Caucasus is one of the most ridiculous and hilarious theories EVER presented on the origins of the Albanians. It is a theory that has ONLY been accepted by Serb and Hellenic nationalists


You are allowed to your own opinion but naming me a nationalist since I was the one to present the theory in this site (not that I reject the 'title') isn't the correct attempt to support your arguments.

1) - Our ethnonym derives from a Latin translation of an old Illyrian tribe's name; Parthini. Parth was the Illyrian version of the modern Albanian word for white, bardh. The Romans translated it into white in Latin, which is alba, hence Albania from the Parthini.


Who is the linguist that supports this name origin, since every attempt to connect the Albanians to Illyrians I've seen, claims that the name derives from the Alban tribe.
Interestingly enough, you claim the name's origin to be from the ParthHni, did you research inform you that they were a tribe that lived next to Epidamus, closely related to the Hellinic colonists and allies of the Roman's against the Illyrian attacks of 229BC?
Guess not otherwise you would have been more carefull.

2) - Most of our toponyms that date from antiquity have evolved in accordance to our phonetical laws, which wouldn't be possible if we adopted them from the Slavs who supposedly settled here before us, which is false.

3) - The little territory of Albania has kept 300 of its old toponyms, which is a whole lot. In areas however of the Slavs i.e. Central & Northern Serbia, BiH & the Dalmatian hinterland, not to mention Slavonija & Slovenia etc, the old place-names were entirely swept aside! If we came after the Slavs, wouldn't we had done the same as they did i.e. eliminate all old place-names and give them new ones? Instead of preserving as much as 300!!!


First I never did argue that you adopted the names from Slavs.
Then again, I have posted a list of the place names Ptolemy recorded, yet not one of you that claim this 'theory' to be rediculous and me a bloody nationalist, showed the connection in language nor proved that they  continue to be used.

So, here we go again:

Ptolemy:
Book II, Chapter 15
Location of Illyria or Liburnia, and of Dalmatia
(Fifth Map of Europe)

Illyria is terminated on the north by both Pannonias along those borders which we have referred to above; on the west by Istria along that line,

one terminus of which is toward Upper Pannonia in 36*30 4510
the other on the Adriatic in 36*30 4450


It is bounded on the east by Upper Moesia along the line which leads from the indicated entrance of the Save into the Danube as far as the Scardus mountains,

the terminal position of which is in 47*00 4140


It is bounded on the south by the part of Macedonia along that line which runs from the indicated terminus to the Adriatic bay,

the other terminus of which is in 45*00 4100


and then by the coast of the Adriatic to the indicated terminus near Istria. The several parts of its boundaries are in the following order: after Istria then the land of Italia. In Illyria:

The maritime shore of Liburnia
Alvona 36*50 4500
Flanona 37*00 4450
Tarsatica 37*40 4445
mouth of the Oeneus river 38*00 4445
Volcera 38*30 4445
Senia 39*00 4440
Lopsica 39*15 4440
mouth of the Tedanius river 39*20 4430
Ortopla 40*00 4430
Vegia 40*20 4430
Argyruntum 40*45 4410
Corinium 41*10 4400
Aenona 41*30 4400
Iader colonia 42*00 4345
mouth of the Titus river 42*20 4310
Scardona 42*40 4330


Maritime shore of Dalmatia
Sicum 43*00 4320
Salonae colonia 43*20 4310
Epetium 43*40 4300
Pituntium 44*00 4245
Onaeum 44*00 4230
mouth of the Naronus river 44*30 4220
Epidaurus 44*40 4220
Rhisium 44*40 4215
Acruvium 44*45 4200
Rhizonicus bay 45*00 4200
Butua 45*00 4145
Ulcinium 45*00 4130
mouth of the Drilo river 45*00 4120
Lissus 45*00 4110

The river Drilo flows from the Scardus mountains and from that other mountain which is near the middle of Upper Moesia,

the location of which is in 45*40 4240

From this another river, the Drinus, joining the Save river, empties into it on the west of the town Tauruno.

The Ispydes, the Hyllaei and the Bulimenses inhabit this Istrian province bordering on the seacoast; above these in Liburnia toward the west are the Mazaei, then the Derriopes and the Derri, and above the Derriopes are the Dindari, above these are the Ditiones, and above the Derri are the Cerauni; in Dalmatia are the Daursi, below whom are the Melcomenii and the Vardaei, below these are the Narensi and the Sardiotae and below these are the Siculotae, the Docleatae, the Pirustae, and the Scirtones near Macedonia.

The inland towns of Liburnia are

Tediastum 39*00 4450
Aruccia 39*30 4445
Ardotium 40*00 4450
Stulpi 39*30 4440
Curcum 40*30 4430
Ausancali 41*30 4445
Varvaria 41*10 4410
Salvia 41*20 4440
Adra 42*30 4440
Arauzona 42*30 4420
Assesia 42*15 4420
Burnum 42*45 4420
Sidrona 43*30 4430
Blanona 42*10 4400
Ouporum 43*00 4400
Nedinum 44*30 4415

The inland towns of Dalmatia are

Andecrium 43*30 4330
Aleta 44*00 4310
Herona 44*20 4345
Delminium 44*40 4320
Aequum colonia 44*30 4320
Saloniana 45*00 4320
Narona colonia 44*20 4245
Enderum 45*30 4250
Chinna 45*40 4230
Doclea 45*20 4215
Rhizana 45*15 4200
Scodra 45*30 4130
Thermidava 46*00 4145
Siparuntum 46*30 4210
Epicaria 45*30 4115
Iminacium 46*00 4120

The islands near Liburnia are Apsorrus, in which are two towns

Crepsa 36*40 4430
Apsorrus 36*50 4430

and Curicta, in which are two towns

Fulfinium 38*10 4420
Curicum 38*20 4415

and the island Scardona, in which are two towns

Arba 40*40 4340
Collentum 41*40 4330

Near Dalmatia are the islands

Issa and the town 42*20 4300
Tragurium and town 43*00 4215
Pharia and town 42*00 4220
Corcyra Nigra 44*00 4145
Melita island 44*10 4120

source :
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer...olemy/home.html

Please do point out how many of these place names continue to be used.

4) - The limited Illyrian vocabulary we know has its descendants in our language.


Again a very interesting claim!!!
Please tell me WHY on earth is Albanian totally ALIEN to the Messapic inscriptions found???

5) - Many Illyrian anthroponyms i.e. personal names have been preserved by the Albanians like Dash from Dassios, Bardh(osh) from Bardus, Dede from Didi etc - the Illyrian anthroponyms are also explained by our language like Bardhyllus meaning white star, from bardh & (h)yll(us) meaning white & star, or the name of Illyria's oldest known king, Hyllus, from yll or hyll, meaning star!

I don't see why this is of any relevence. I know of Americans, Germans among many other people that tend to give their children mythologic names. Herakles and Homer are really common, could this mean that they are descendants of the ancient Hellines? Nope.

As for Hyllus, if you do a little mythologic search, you'll find he was son of Herakles and later king of the Dorians. We also know that the Dorians were situated for some time in Epirus waiting for 3 yrs so the myth says. It is quite obvious that the name possibly means Sun from the Hellinic Hlios and was nothing more than a possible adoption.

6) - In our language two week-days are attributed to the Illyrian divinities; Thursday is called after the Illyrian war-fire god Enji and Friday is named after the goddess of fertility, which was Prema.

7) - The names/etymologies of other gods as well are also explained through our language. The whine-god(dess) Dualos is from where our word to be drunk, dejur, comes from!

Never heard of any of these Gods being mentioned in any archelogic article, just in a couple of forums but no source of their origin. Please do provide one. (and I don't mean alb-net or anything similar)

10) - Our language borrows both from archaic Latin & Greek, which wouldn't be possible unless we inhabited the Balkans 2,000 years ago. This is obvious.

Wrong, every single maritime terminology of Albanian is not your own, but is borrowed from different languages.

Albanian has an insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords.

The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Rumanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria.

The Illyrian toponyms known from antiquity, e.g. Shköder from the ancient Scodra (Livius), Tomor from Tomarus (Strabo, Pliny, etc.), have not been directly inherited in Albanian: the contemporary forms of these names do not correspond to the phonetic laws of Albanian. The same also applies to the ancient toponyms of Latin origin in this region.
(I wanted to post this one above but it works here also)

Sources :
H. Kronasser, Zum Stand der Illyristik (Linguistique Balkanique, IV, 1962, pp. 5 ff.); R. Katicic', 'Namengebiete im römischen Dalmatian" (Die Sprache, X, Vienna, 1964, pp. 23 ff.); id., Illyrii proprie dicti (iva Antika, Skopje, XIII/XIV, 1964, pp. 87 ff.); id., 'Suvremena istraivanja o jeziku starosjedilaca ilirskih provincija' (Nauno društvo SR Bosne i Hercegovine, IV, Sarajevo, 1964, pp. 9 ff.); G. Alföldy, 'Die Namengebung der Urbevölkerung der römischen Provinz Dalmatia (Beiträge zur Namenforschung, 15, Heidelberg, 1964, pp. 54 ff).

11) - Cultural similiairites between us and Illyrians are striking. Both adored the snake as a sacred symbol - according to the Greek myths and legends concerning Kadmos, they say that the Illyrians descended from Kadmos who had transformed into a snake, which tells alot. Then our clothes are quite similiar to the Illyrians, as well as other similiarities like the tradition of tattoos etc!

Yeah OK, whatever you say.

Many times have I questioned the total lack of historic memory,  you so kindly proved I was actually right.

The founding of Illyria was done by his son Illyrios and NOT by Kadmos. Apollodorus tells us that his parents were punished and he (Illyrios) was rased by a serpent. Which is how the name was given, after the 'founder/ progenitor' Illyrios, not his father Kadmos.

Now exactly how the clothes are similar is beyond me, unless Albanians today still dress in chlamys or whatever it was they wore back then.

Tattoos, com'on. You understand that these are actually rediculous arguments with absolutely NO value. The reference of tattoos is made by Strabo and Ptolemy when mentioning the Lapydes.
A mixture of Illyrians and Thracians that lived in Lapydia (situated between the Kulpa and Korana river in CROATIA)

You see, sc in Latin was pronnounced h, so Georgiev thinks that it should've evolved in Hodra, instead of transforming sc into shk. This is however disproved by numerous albanian loanwords from Latin which show the same evolution, like shkendia from scantilla which instead of evolving into hendia, adopted the shk sound ... the same goes for shkemb which comes from Latin scampus etc. So the Albanian version is much closer to the archaic version than the Slav version is, which wouldn't be possible if we weren't here prior to the Slavs' arrival,


This is a waste of time. You've totally screwed up a fine language.
SC sounds like SH ONLY in Medieval Latin!!!
In classical Latin C and G are always 'hard'.

An joke classical Latin students pull on medieval Latin students is the inscription from a monastery :  Papa fidem scit  (The Pope knows the Faith)

scit- > sh*t Get it?????
If this happened in all forms of Latin it wouldn't really be a joke

The true Illyrians are the un-Latinized and un-Slaviziced Albanians. This is confirmed by diverse facts. The limited Illyrian glossary we know of is also present in Albanian e.g. veglia (tool) from Illyrian is also found in Albanian vegla of the same meaning. Other examples are sica=thika=knife, mag=madh=great, rhinon=ren=cloud, mist etc etc.


Sorry but I just have to disagree once again.

Illyrian-"alt"= (a stream) Albo -"LUMË, RRYMË, CURRIL, RRËKE, PËRRUA, NIVEL"
Illyrian-"barba"= (a swamp) Albo -"MOÇAL"
Illyrian-"bra"= (brother) Albo-VËLLA, SHOK
Illyrian-"mag"= (great) Albo- FAMSHËM, KRYESOR, FISNIK, SHKËLQYER
Illyrian-"brisa"= (grapes) Albo-RRUSH
Illyrian-"metu"=(between) Albo-MES,NDËRMJET
Illyrian-"oseriates"=(lake) Albo-LIQEN, PELLG
Illyrian-"plo"=(strong) Albo-FORTË, THANTË
Illyrian-"rinos"=(cloud) Albo-HIJE, RE, TUFË
Illyrian-"sybina"=(a spear) Albo-SHTIZË
Illyrian-"teuta"=(a tribe/people) Albo-FIS, KLAN/ POPULL, KOMBËSI, GJINDE
Illyrian-"ves"=(kind) Albo-MIRË, DASHUR, SJELLSHËM

Sources for the Illyrian words:
1. Neroznak, V. Paleo-Balkan languages. Moscow, 1978.
2. Katicic, R. Ancient Languages of the Balkans. The Hague, 1976.

English-Albo translator:
www.foreignword.com

It is also interesting that while we know that the Serbs came to their present area approx. in the 7th cent. (if not later) we find some quite interesting connections:

llirian- Serbian- Albanian- English
lugo- lug- pelg - pool
metu- medju- ndermjet- between
bra- brat- velle- brother
vesa- veselo- qelluar- good spirits
barba- bara- pellg- puddle
trtigo- trgovac- dyqanhxi- merchant

Does this mean that the Slavs are also decendants of the Illyrians or is it only your right to have a vivid imagination????

or instance, ancient Dalmatia is explained through the Albanian word delme/dalme meaning sheep. 'Coincidentally', the Greek geographer Strabo described Dalmatia as the land filled with sheeps. Dardania is exaplained through our word dardh meaning pear. Around and in Dardania, Romans & Slavs translated indigenious toponyms related to Dardania (pear) to their own languages; thus we have the Pirustae (peare in Latin)


(10) On the coast of Illyria, along its whole extent, and in the neighbouring islands, there are numerous excellent harbours, contrary to what occurs on the opposite Italian coast, where there are none. As in Italy, however, the climate is warm, and the soil productive of fruits; olives also and vines grow readily, except in some few excessively rugged places. Although Illyria possesses these advantages, it was formerly neglected, through ignorance, perhaps, of its fertility; but it was principally avoided on account of the savage manners of the inhabitants, and their piratical habits.

The region situated above the sea-coast is mountainous, cold, and at times covered with snow. The northern part is still colder, so that vines are rarely to be met with either in the hills or in the plains lower down. These mountain-plains are in the possession of the Pannonians, and extend towards the south as far as the Dalmatians and Ardiæi. They terminate towards the north at the Ister, and approach towards [p. 488] the east close to the Scordisci, who live near the Macedonian and Thracian mountains.

STRABO book 7 chap. 5

Sorry but absolutely NO reference to sheep. If you can present the EXACT quote please do.

Not sure where you find your Latin translations but they're wrong.

Latin pear = "pirum" and
pear tree = pirus

Obviously Messapic seems to have alot of common features & vocabulary with our language;


Then why is it that no one has managed to deciher this?

klohi zis thotoria marta pido vastei basta 
veinan aran in daranthoa vasti staboos 
xohedonas daxtassi vaanetos inthi trigonoxo 
a staboos xohetthihi dazimaihi beiliihi 
inthi rexxorixoa kazareihi xohetthihi toeihithi 
dazohonnihi inthi vastima 
daxtas kratheheihi inthi ardannoa poxxonnihi a 
imarnaihi.

Their word for wolf was Daunus, which rersembles our word for violence, dhune, or teeth, dhembe! Their word for strong 'plo' resembles our word for someone who's heavy and powerfull, plote!


You can obviously see that these examples by no means support any kind of linguistic continuety. A wolf is a wolf, so why adopt a totally new word for it when you already have one. It should have at least kept it's original meaning along with eveolving into 'newer' ones.





To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 23:22
Sorry Phallanx but the theory that Albs were from the Caucasus was rejected long a while ago. Albanian has been proven to be an Indo-European language and it doesnt have any connection to that area of the world.


Here is a chechen-english dictionary on a dying

Caucasian language

http://ingush.berkeley.edu:7012/cgi-bin/search.pl?copyright= agree;lang=Chechen

Here is an Alb dictionary

http://www.argjiro.net/fjalor/

Can you find some links between the two? I've been using the Caucasian one for a long while and so far... The langauges couldnt get any further from one another.
That is an Udic language, which would be the langauge our ancestors would have derived from...

I mean even our name for ourselves does not match. I mean we called ourselves Arberor, that was Aghbania and even the book with their dictionary was called aluanic.
They adopted an armanian alphabet, something we never used.... Until the 20th century we used either a Greek, Latin or Cyrrilic alphabet. So right away we lost all of the influence we had from that region?


You are going at this indirectly, yes Albanian does have common origins with Romanian, but this only goes toward Thrako-Dacian origins, not Caucasian. I personally believe Alb doeant has any connections to the Illyrian language outside of remaining terms. The only other actually supported theory was the Dacian origin.


Illyrian-"mag"= (great) Albo- FAMSHM, KRYESOR, FISNIK, SHKLQYER

Realize that we dont use famshem to mean great. That means famous, kryesor means main. Shkelqyer means shine. Whos the ass linguistic who made these conections? When we say Alexander the Great, we say Alexander i Madh. We use madh(large) to be the equivalent of great...

Illyrian-"bra"= (brother) Albo-VLLA, SHOK
Shok= friend
Vella= brother
This, however, neglects the fact that it is pronounced vlha, not vella. The e sort of becomes silent.

For pool in Albanian? Well there is also pellgu(not close but shows there is more to these that is being neglected)

Interesting that all of the following were taken from Slavic sources. This stuff goes on and on... I mean for instance merchant. In Alb its tregtar, dyqan means store. Also for "between" its still not the Illyrian term but it goes midis

Those scholars picked out worrds that obviously did not go with the believed Illyrian term.



Who is the linguist that supports this name origin, since every attempt to connect the Albanians to Illyrians I've seen, claims that the name derives from the Alban tribe.


Yes Alban was the latin origin either for "white" or Mountaneous. Same reason there was an Albania in the Caucasus.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9926/ptolomeysmap9fd.jpg] Here is the map

As for us having no memory of being Illyrians. Doesnt it seem odd to you that we have no memory of being from the Caucasus? I mean this was only in 1000AD. 1000 years ago. Yet we had NO memory of it. Why didnt Byzantine historians point this out? Why didnt they state that this character landed on the shores of Albania and left these people? These new soldiers?

If Albs did come from the Caucasus so recently. Wouldnt we have a higher concentration of EU19,EU10,EU11? We have about the same Greeks have or northern Italian...

http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p115 5.pdf

You are putting the burden of proof on Illyrian side. Which is not too good since the Illyrian theory is the generally believed theory, next to the Dacian one. It's actually the Caucasian one that is the least accepted one(out there with the Pelasgian and Etruscan one).

As for sea terms

Sea

Alb - det
Greek - thalassa
Serbian - more/valjanje mora/talasi/okean/morski
Latin - quod
Udic - hord

river

Alb - lum
Greek - potamos
Serbian - potok/reka
Latin - flumen
Udic- xi

(Latin borrowed)

lake

Alb - liqen
Greek - limni
Serbian - lak/jezero/crveni lak/
Latin - lacus
Udic - waam

wave

Alb - val
Greek - kyma/ kymatizo/ seio/ kouno
Serbian - dati znak mahanjem ruke/ kovrdavost
Latin - crispo/ fluctus/ procella/ undo
Udic - liastad.o

boat

Alb -   anije/ vark
Greek - barka/ karabi/ ploio/ ploiario
Serbian - voziti se laom/ lada/ amac/
Latin - navis
Udic - (no word)

fish

Alb - peshk
Greek - psari, psarevo
Serbian -
Latin - piscis
Udic - ch'aara

(latin derived)



Im tired right now. Ill go on some other time. But you get the idea. Keep in mind this is using the older Geg dialect of Albanian, the Tosk one has had far too much Greek influence to be used.










Edited by Iskender Bey ALBO
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 01:11
It's just a theory, one of many. The only way to reject it is by discussing it. Simple actually.

I mean even our name for ourselves does not match......

They adopted an armanian alphabet, something we never used.... Until the 20th century we used either a Greek, Latin or Cyrrilic alphabet. So right away we lost all of the influence we had from that region?

I never said names match, I said you use similar sounds such as SQ, PSHQ, which are not common in any IE languages

CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA

You forgot Arabic, actually there were major riots when you decided to change it.
Whos the ass linguistic who made these conections?

Who ever mentioned a linguist???
I clearly state my source for both Illyrian words and meanings and the translator I used for Albanian. You obviously need to argue with the translator.

Sources for the Illyrian words:
1. Neroznak, V. Paleo-Balkan languages. Moscow, 1978.
2. Katicic, R. Ancient Languages of the Balkans. The Hague, 1976.

English-Albo translator:
www.foreignword.com


To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 01:21

CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA


Considering these evolved during later Ottoman times, they could very well be loanwords. I mean in our language Shqipria does not actually mean "sons of eagles", it actually has no meaning. Today, those are considering to have evolved from ottoman times, Ottoman initself was heavily based on Arabic. If it actually is influenced from that... This also isnt surprising as an arabic alphabet was used by Albs during ottoman times. However it was quickly ditched when people realized it was horrible to use for the language. And as for them, we dont use them anymore then english does.

That source you gave is horrible. For instance when I check boat, it shows shetit me varke. That does not mean boat, it means travel with a boat... People who dont know alb will use the entire thing. Thats one small example.

After Arabic conquest, in the 7th century, the place ceased to be called Albania. By the 8th century it was called Aranshahs principality. No longer anything similar with Aluani or Aghbania(which themselves are pretty far from Arberor). This is 300 years before they were supposed to come to present day Albania.

Btw, that old Chechen dictionary has the same Arab words that we should have took with us.

And Phallanx here the whole sheep connection is explained.

Edited by Iskender Bey ALBO
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2005 at 11:58
Originally posted by Kuu-ukko

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Also today, none of the Arabic countries use these symbols in their flags. The ones which are using these are influenced with Turkish beliefs...


Tunisia, Algeria and Mauritania have the exact same symbols in their flags, but they aren't influenced by Turkish beliefs, they have nothing to do with Turkey. The only thing common with for example Algeria and Turkey is Islam. What we can conclude from this............


neritan aren't Albanian and Illyrian recognized with some other language as originating from a same proto-language? PS. Nice examples about the similarities


bosnia uses the star and crescent to for islam, but on the other hand all three were part of the ottoman empire.
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2005 at 12:00
Originally posted by Maju

While I find  myself unable to yield any accurate opinion on the question of the origin of Albanians, I find quite shocking the Balcanic ultranationalims that some display. It is obvious that populations don't change throughtly due to migrations but only partly. Natives are often assimilated either by grade or by force and, If Illyrians dwelled in Albania, Croatia, Bosnia and Montengro at some time in history it is more than reasonable to think that they didn't just become extinct but that they survived through assimliation to Romans and later other peoples... Equally those peoples that lived in the area before Illyrians arrived around 1300 BCE also had become assimilated by Illyrians, as the Paleolithic natives also were assimilated by the carriers of the Cardium-Printed pottery that were maybe originary from Lebanon. Populations have moved in history but not that much. Most people have always remained in their places and it is logical to think that Albanians and other peoples of the region descend at least partly from Illyrians as they were known in ancient historical times.

This is the same as assuming that many French descend largely from Gauls, despite their language being of Italian origin and their name coming from a German league of tribes; or that accepting that most English people could eventually track their ancestors to ancient Britons rather than to Anglos, Saxons and Jutes; or that most Moroccans descend from Berbers rather than from Arabs, etc.

Fortunatley people tends to accept each day more that their ancestry is not a linnear history but a complex mixture and that nations are not the same as "races", as one speaks of ethnicity (language and culture) and the other of genetics and these often are largely unrelated.


true that is why i say that im bosnian but with turkish descent because without the combination of the medieval bosnians and the medieval ottomans there would be no modern bosians.
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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2005 at 13:09
Originally posted by Yiannis

Warning!

Please do not insult forum members with racist or fascist remarks. Read the forum rules and adhere to them:  http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1338& ; ;PN=1

In "that" forum members are Turks included?

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2005 at 13:52

hehe,

np, If we are half greek, but It is problem If they are half-Turk.

Maybe turk word is insult?

 

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2005 at 17:46

Originally posted by Kenaney

In "that" forum members are Turks included?

I do believe that I was clear enough. If something is still vague, I'd strongly advise to re-read the forum rules

The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2005 at 08:15

Then i should strongly advice you mods to practice the forum rules everywhere you can.

That goes also for me,

thanks in advance

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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2005 at 12:27
I agree with kenaney on that matter
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