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Are Albanians related to Greeks?

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Are Albanians related to Greeks?
    Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 08:45
Speaking of resent genetics,

The most comprehensive European-wide study of mtDNA is [1] in which 125 Greeks were sampled among thousands of Europeans. The Greeks and the Albanians appear in the "Mediterranean-East" category of the study. Greeks tested belonged overwhelmingly to the Caucasoid-specific haplogroups ("Seven Daughters of Eve" popularized by Bryan Sykes' book).

The "erratic" sequences include a Sub-Saharan African (L1a) sequence, which was derived from the Albanian part of the sample [2]. The other two sequences non-attributed to a European founder are members of haplogroups prevalent in Asia, M and D. Thus, the total percentage of erratics in the Greek sample was 1.6%. The Greeks, like most Europeans are fairly pure in terms of their maternal ancestry.

Reference:

Richards et al., Tracing European founder lineages in the Near Eastern mtDNA pool. American Journal of Human Genetics, 67, 1251-1276. Online paper and supplementary data in Vincent Macaulay's home page.Michele Belledi et al.,

Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations, European Journal of Human Genetics, 8, 480 - 486 (01 Jul 2000)

Giuseppe Passarino et al., Different genetic components in the Norwegian population revealed by the analysis of mtDNA and Y chromosome polymorphisms, European Journal of Human Genetics10, 521 - 529 (23 Aug 2002)

Esteban J. Parra et al., Estimating African American Admixture Proportions by Use of Population-Specific Alleles, Am. J. Hum. Genet., 63:1839-1851, 1998

But, I do know that in some cases the few remaining Albanian Orthodox near the Greek border are considered to be Greek by their neighbours.


These poeple can not be considered Albanians since they are clearly of Hellinic "stock", there have been many attempts to try to connect theirselves (albanians) to Hellinic history since Hoxza.

Anyway, the people of N.Epirots speak Hellinic at least they want to, want Hellinic schooling, even their own political party, but DEMOCRACY hasn't obviously reached Albania. Since we find that, any connection to their "motherland" is forbidden. Politicians houses bombed, terror during votes, shcools teared down. The same tactic Hoxza enforced.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 15:21
Originally posted by Kuu-ukko

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Also today, none of the Arabic countries use these symbols in their flags. The ones which are using these are influenced with Turkish beliefs...


Tunisia, Algeria and Mauritania have the exact same symbols in their flags, but they aren't influenced by Turkish beliefs, they have nothing to do with Turkey. The only thing common with for example Algeria and Turkey is Islam. What we can conclude from this............


neritan aren't Albanian and Illyrian recognized with some other language as originating from a same proto-language? PS. Nice examples about the similarities
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 15:53

 

The modern Turkish Republic founded by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was an example for some countries such as Tunisia, Algeria in their stuggle for liberation. That's why they chose the symbol of crescent & star; not because it represents Islam. If that was true, then how come the countries ruled by Islamic law such as Saudi Arabia or Iran do not have those symbols ? Let's put facts in to context. Turkey is pre-dominantly Muslim but it's secular. we are not an Islamic country .

 

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 19:02
Tunisia, Algeria in their stuggle for liberation.


Who exactly was turkey liberated from???????
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 20:43
Turkey lead an independence war against  England,France, Italy and Greece which is a seperate issue.  As you may know, Algeria and Tunisia againt the French . My emphasis was on the issue of the symbol of the flags. (The crescent&star)
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 14:04
Originally posted by Phallanx


I find it quite interesting how you(general) selectively use a number of "terms" to identify yourselves. From the Arber to the Arnauts all suposedly describe a race of people that aren't actually more than a couple of million, always depending on which time of history we discuss.
Anyway, this actually proves my point, even though I neglected to mention it in my earlier post, arnaut does NOT mean Albanian in Turkish but it is the name the Turks use to describe you and means "those that have not returned" from an Arabic loan word. So how could you be the Arnauts, if you are not the same ones from Caucasus as the Turkish word describes?!?!?!
You must make up your minds
(I'm sure that some of the Turks in here will support that this meaning is correct)
 


The albanian are more of a couple of milion. In turkish the root arn* significy patch, but I not thing which the name used from turkish prove the origin caucasian of albanian.
Exist one teory from the name Greece come  from  Albanian.
  GREQI -> gra(women)-qi
I not believe this teory.
Is the same logic.

Which brings us back to the Caucasus origin, something that was never proven to be totally wrong, but thanks to your assistance may actually be your true origin. As mentioned before, the Arabs enslaved you and "transfered" you from the Caucasus, where Maniakos found you and brought you to your current position from Sicily. This event is recorded by M. Ataliotos in his chronicle: "Historia, Corpus Scriptorum Historiae Byzantinae. Impensis ed. Neberi, Bonnae"

This is interesant. The arab have transfered the albanian from caucasus in sicily and  later  Maniakos  we  brought  in the  current  position.
my compliment for your imagination. Is courageous to say this.


So the only connection you may actually have to the Illyrians is that you assimilated them. More proof of this is the very name your country has that is much more than a coincidense.
The Avar (from Caucasus) after invading and conquering part of the Balkans gave the names to these areas. So we find that in the Lesghian-Avar language, Serbia is the Balkan Crna Gora and has the exact same toponym of the land they left behind also called Crna Gora, now part of Daghestan.
In the Lesghian-Avar language: Srbi means "people." Also, in the Lesghian-Avar language: Albania is the land they called their homeland, neighbouring Armenia, known as Ancient Caucasian Albania.


The avar come from mongolia and is documented which they are fermed in the Carpate.
You must make an decision. Here are 2 teory which exclude each other. and you have to choose one as true.



Some explanations:
Albanian is an IE language and the unique unique IE
language in Caucasus is Armenian. Albanian is different from armenian

The name albania is very common and comes from IE = white.
Scots arent related whith caucasus, just because Scotland called "Albania" by the scotsmen
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2005 at 14:54
GREQI -> gra(women)-qi
I not believe this teory.
Is the same logic.


It's actually nice to hear you don't believe this delusional "theory". There is more than enough proof to support the words origin and the fact that it was used at least since 4th cent.BC, way before the "Albanians" were ever known.

Anyway, as the name may not prove anything by itself, there is a list of things that actually support the theory when added to this fact. (do read my first posts again)

This is interesant. The arab have transfered the albanian from caucasus in sicily and  later  Maniakos  we  brought  in the  current  position.
my compliment for your imagination. Is courageous to say this.


Courageous?!?!?!! What on earth does courage have to do, with historic facts?????

Try looking up the following FACTS and then find the courage to reject them.

With the coming of the Arabs, they converted the Old Albanians in the 8th century to Islam. But meanwhile, at the time, the Arabs were waging campaigns in Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the Kingdom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily, the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus. To this day, their descendants live in Sicily.

Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the young Serbian state after having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian Albanians under their command and Christianizing them. The leader of the Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgios Maniakos. Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercenaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also, before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers.

Hard evidence is the Turkish censuses carried out in 1455, they indicate that Albanian names are found in only 80 of the 600 villages listed in the area, and that they did not constitute territorial groups, ruling out any assumptions that zones evenly and continuously inhabited by Albanians existed at the time.

As for their language, to be honest I'm not any kind of linguist nor have I ever given this part of the
topic any serious reading so, I'm not actually prepared to argue about this but from the little I know.
Albanian is classified as an IE language only because no one has been able to classify it into any other group, and this is because no one has yet studied all the Caucasus languages.
Albanian might have IE sounding words, but its basic structure and syntax are more similar to Chechen and Udish than to any IE language. Many Albanian words do sound Indo- European, because Albanian has borrowed over 80% of its vocabulary, more than any other European language.

The Chechen language is similar to Albanian. They both have similar grammar and similar sounds such as SQ, PSHQ, which are not common in any IE languages, but are very common in Caucasus languages like Chechenian.

CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA


The conversion to Islam mentioned before can also be found in :

Moses Kalankaytuk History of Aghvan (Albania) book III, chap. V / also: Sources on the history of Azerbaijan (Azerbaycan tarixi uzre qaynaqlar) Baku 1989 p. 53 (in Azeri);
and
Sources on the history of Azerbaijan pp. 56-57 / also: Z. M. Baniatov Review of the sources on the history of Azerbaijan. Arabic sources (Obzor istochnikov po istorii Azerbaydzhana. Istochniki arabskiye) Baku 1964 p. 5 (in Russian)

They mention:
"By 705 the Arabs completed the invasion of Albania and the country became to be ruled by the Arab feudal lords- emirs. The Albanian church under the pressure from the Arabs and with the direct assistance of the Armenian church had to renounce Dyophisitism: Arabs couldn't tolerate the ideological unity of Albania and Byzantium."

"Yelia with support of the Arab troops arrived in Barda and ruthlessly destroyed those, who aspired to preserve their independence. He also destroyed all the literature in the Albanian language kept in the archives in Barda. He took a written obligation from certain episcopes, particularly from the clergy of the monasteries situated in Karabakh confirming, that they subordinate forever to the Armenian Monophysite catholicate. Yelia also ordered the execution of the last Albanian catholicos Nerses Bakur (686-704)."

"In VII-IX cc. due to the increase of the settlement of the Turkic tribes from the North, Albanians were left in the minority and gradually assimilated into one Turkophone ethnicity. As VIII-IX cc. Arab historian Abu Muhammad Abd-al-Malik ibn Hisham informs us of this fact in his work Kitab-ul-tidjan fi muluk Himyar (The book about the rulers of Himyar)"


Now, I have a question. I've seen some of you argue that the place-name "Ulcinj" is translated with the Albanian word for "wolf" - "ujk", "ulk", explain why this would happen when as anyone with basic inteligence can see that, it's at least stupid to name a sea coast town after a forest beast.

And please in the future, try to reject my arguments based on facts and sources. Our personal opinions, aren't worth anything in a historic discussion/argument.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2005 at 07:58

With the coming of the Arabs, they converted the Old Albanians in the 8th century to Islam. But meanwhile, at the time, the Arabs were waging campaigns in Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the Kingdom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily, the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus. To this day, their descendants live in Sicily.
Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the young Serbian state after having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian Albanians under their command and Christianizing them. The leader of the Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgios Maniakos. Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercenaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also, before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers.


I have study the story of Sicily in the periode about 1030-1050. I not have encounted nobody about albanian.
http://www.cronologia.it/ (italian)

The emmigration of Albanian, which live in Italy, is comming later of this date.

the first emmigration 1339-1409
the second emmigration 1416-1442
the third emmigration 1461 - 1470
the fourth emmigration 1470 - 1478
the fifth emmigration  1533 -1534
.........
........

http://www.guzzardi.it/arberia/(italian)


Hard evidence is the Turkish censuses carried out in 1455, they indicate that Albanian names are found in only 80 of the 600 villages listed in the area, and that they did not constitute territorial groups, ruling out any assumptions that zones evenly and continuously inhabited by Albanians existed at the time.


In this period the turks not have occupied Albania. The occupation of Albania is termined in 1478.


Albanian might have IE sounding words, but its basic structure and syntax are more similar to Chechen and Udish than to any IE language. Many Albanian words do sound Indo- European, because Albanian has borrowed over 80% of its vocabulary, more than any other European language.


Some samples of albanian words which have origin from IE



Indo-European      Albanian      English     
   
   
*oi-no-     nj         one        
*sem-         (nj)?         some        
*dwo-         dy         two        
*trei-         tre         three        
*kwetwor-     katr         four    
*penkwe     pes         five    
*s(w)ek^s     gjasht     six    
*septm.     shtat         seven    
*ok^tō(u)     tet         eight    
*newn.         nnte         nine    
*dek^m.     dhjet         ten    
   
*bher-         bie         to bear,
*deru-         dru         tree    
*dhg^em-     dh         groom    
*dhwer-     der         door    
*g^embh-     dhmb         comb    
*g^no-         njeh         know    
*gwher-     zjarr         burn    
*kwo-         kush         who    
*māter-     motr         mother    
*mē-         muaj         month    
*mūs-         mi         mouse    
*nekwt-     nat         night    
*okw-         sy         eye    
*per-         i par         first    
*tu-         ti         thou    
*wed-         uj         water    
*wl.kwo-     ujk         wolf    

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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2005 at 09:30
The Greqi is the funniest thing i have ever heard 
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2005 at 09:50
phallanx is using the same facts over and over again cuz he has nothing else to say

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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2005 at 14:52
Phallanx, stop with trying to make everybody Greek...
OUT OF LIMIT
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2005 at 17:48
Originally posted by Kenaney

Phallanx, stop with trying to make everybody Greek...


Not really sure what you mean. Where exactly did I say that the Albanians are a Hellinic people???
You must have misunderstood since I'm talking about the theory T.J.Winnifrith and John Wilkes presented of a Caucasus origin, as seen in in his book "The Illyrians"

Originally posted by vulcan02

phallanx is using the same facts over and over again cuz he has nothing else to say

Did you ever considergiving me some answers before asking for more FACTS as you called them???

Fact=Something that is known to have happened or to be true or to exist

Edited by Phallanx
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2005 at 18:48
OK according to you we came from the Caucus WITH the Turks to Albania. This doesn't make sense as Albanians even before Scanderbeg fought against the Turks... its the stupidest theory i have ever heard. You are suggesting we simply decided one day to leave the Caucus(the Albanians over there have been living for many centuries until they were assimilated by the Seljuks, Armenians, Georgians, Arabs etc). I dont see it logical that a certain people that have been living in a region for so long simply decided that they would just move one day. And to make things even more complicated who would simply allow this mass exodus anyways... the Turks in Anatolia... or the Byzantines hahaha?  That book by John Wilkes by the way is endorsed by only a few academics, most believe that Albanians are the Illyrians decendants both in language and race.  I don't have to give you any other facts... i think Neritan did that by now a lot more than you expected. And if you say that Albanian is a language that originated from Caucus... then why dont we use the same alphabet as them...??
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2005 at 20:07
First I never said Turks, I said Arabs. So everything you said about fighting Ottomans is worthless, since you got it all wrong.
Caucasus Albania was destroyed and enslaved during the 7th cent. so no Ottomans either.

Neritan gave me nothing. Sorry.

I never denied that Albanian has IE words actually I did say that over 80% of the language is borrowed from other languages. So the list of IE words and their corresponding Albanian words proves nothing.

The comment about the 1455 census is correct simply because I neglected to mention that this census took place in Epirus.

Let's see what you NEVER gave answers to, yet you demand more proof:

1)You have presented not even one good explanation as to why Albanian has absolutely NO connection to the Messapic inscriptions found.
2)explain the common place-names posted before,
3)why historical sources that mention the Caucasian Albos being enslaved and converted to Islam and then transferred to Sicily where G.Maniakos found them, are wrong
4)prove any kind of population in this area before G.Maniakos/Maniakes brought you here,
5)according to the records left to us by Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus not to mention Arab and Armenian texts, there are NO Albanians as a people or nation found in the area, even though Constantine VII gives a detailed record of cities, towns, villages and people he NEVER ONCE mentioned your Albanian race or country.
6)The Illyrian toponyms known from antiquity, e.g. Shkder from the ancient Scodra (Livius), Tomor from Tomarus (Strabo, Pliny, etc.), have not been directly inherited in Albanian: the contemporary forms of these names do not correspond to the phonetic laws of Albanian. The same also applies to the ancient toponyms of Latin origin in this region.
7)The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Rumanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria.
(this is from another theory that proves your origin to be somewhere in Carpathia)
8)The Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages.
9)Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords
10)The Albanians are not mentioned before the 10th century a.d., although place names and personal names from the whole region of Albania are attested in numerous documents from the 4th century onwards.
11)The old home of the Albanians must have been near to that of the proto-Rumanians. The oldest Latin elements in Albanian come from proto-Rumanian, i.e. eastern Balkan Latin, and not from Dalmatian, western Balkan Latin that was spoken in Illyria. Cf. the phonetic development of the following words:
Vulgar Latin caballum 'horse' Rum. cal, Alb. kal
Vulgar Latin cubitum 'elbow' Rum. cot. Alb. kut
Vulgar Latin lucta 'struggle, fight' Rum. lupt, Arum. luft, Alb. luft
(same theory mentioned)
12) the absolute LACK of any historic memory
13)If we look at: In Ptolemy's Geography:
Book II, Chapter 15  Location of Illyria or Liburnia, and of Dalmatia
Fifth Map of Europe
(the area you live in today)

He gives us a list of place-names:
Alvona
Flanona
Tarsatica
mouth of the Oeneus river
Volcera
Senia
Lopsica
mouth of the Tedanius river
Ortopla
Vegia
Argyruntum
Corinium
Aenona
Iader colonia
mouth of the Titus river
Scardona
Maritime shore of Dalmatia
Sicum
Salonae colonia
Epetium
Pituntium
Onaeum
mouth of the Naronus river
Epidaurus
Rhisium
Acruvium
Rhizonicus bay
Butua
Ulcinium
mouth of the Drilo river
Lissus
The river Drilo
Scardus mountains
Upper Moesia
the Drinus river
the Save river
Tediastum
Aruccia
Ardotium
Stulpi
Curcum
Ausancali
Varvaria
Salvia
Adra
Arauzona
Assesia
Burnum
Sidrona
Blanona
Ouporum
Nedinum
Andecrium
Aleta
Herona
Delminium
Aequum colonia
Saloniana
Narona colonia
Enderum
Chinna
Doclea
Rhizana
Scodra
Thermidava
Siparuntum
Epicaria
Iminacium
Crepsa
Apsorrus
Fulfinium
Curicum

Out of these place names 20-30-40 doesn't matter how many they are. How many corresponding place names can you give me ????

To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 01:16
blah blah blah read page 2 Neritan explained to you a lot of those words and the facts... go have a life my half Greek, half black, half turk, half whatever else Greek friend
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 01:25

But, I do know that in some cases the few remaining Albanian Orthodox near the Greek border are considered to be Greek by their neighbours.


These poeple can not be considered Albanians since they are clearly of Hellinic "stock", there have been many attempts to try to connect theirselves (albanians) to Hellinic history since Hoxza.

Anyway, the people of N.Epirots speak Hellinic at least they want to, want Hellinic schooling, even their own political party, but DEMOCRACY hasn't obviously reached Albania. Since we find that, any connection to their "motherland" is forbidden. Politicians houses bombed, terror during votes, shcools teared down. The same tactic Hoxza enforced.

[/QUOTE]

I explained before that in the city that i lived(korca which is heavily orthodox) NEVER anyone that i know of has said that they are Greek.
 you consider them to be Greek all you want but... its what the people themselves like to be considered that counts.  A few Greeks who live in Saranda have their political party OMONIA or soemhitng like that(unfortunately) which should be abolished at once cuz they work against the Albanian nation. At least we recognize them though... the Greek government recognizes NO minorities!! Albanians, Bulgarians, Roma people, and whoever else that has the displeasure to be living in that country.
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 01:30
Originally posted by Phallanx




Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords




Illyrians never liked the Greeks or Hellization therefore they never bothered to learn their language or add Greek words.... their raided their ships and ports tho
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 02:19
Originally posted by vulcan02

go have a life my half Greek, half black, half turk, half whatever else Greek friend


In numerous recent studies, the mitochondrial DNA of Greeks was examined and was found to be predominantly Caucasoid with only infrequent presence of "erratic" sequences from non-Caucasoid sources. Mitochondrial DNA ("mtDNA") is inherited from one's mother and is thus a good way to establish the maternal ancestry of a population.

The most comprehensive European-wide study of mtDNA is [1] in which 125 Greeks were sampled among thousands of Europeans. The Greeks and the Albanians appear in the "Mediterranean-East" category of the study. Greeks tested belonged overwhelmingly to the Caucasoid-specific haplogroups ("Seven Daughters of Eve" popularized by Bryan Sykes' book).

The "erratic" sequences include a Sub-Saharan African (L1a) sequence, which was derived from the Albanian part of the sample [2]. The other two sequences non-attributed to a European founder are members of haplogroups prevalent in Asia, M and D. Thus, the total percentage of erratics in the Greek sample was 1.6%. The Greeks, like most Europeans are fairly pure in terms of their maternal ancestry.

It is sometimes argued that the Greeks absorbed large numbers of Negro slaves or immigrants. There is no evidence of such an event in Greek mtDNA. If it ever took place, it was so limited in scope that not a single sequence in a total of 125 could be found.

The number of non-European sequences in the rest of Europe is also small, while in the Near East it is about 5%, only slightly larger. One can easily verify that Sub-Saharan African admixture (L sequences) has been detected in Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway and Iceland - 0.6%), Southeastern Europe (Bulgaria/Romania - 0.5%), Central Mediterranean (Italy and Sardinia - 1.7%; mostly in Sardinia), the Mediterranean West (Spain and Portugal - 3.7%), North Central Europe (Poles, Czechs, Germans, Danes - 0.9%), North Western Europe (Britain, Ireland and France - 0.4%). In another recent study [3] on Norwegians, an L2 Sub-Saharan African sequence was found in the sample of 74 Norwegians (1.4% Sub-Saharan admixture). Finally [4] showed 0.5% to 1.2% introgression of Sub-Saharan African genes into the European American gene pool.

The main conclusion to be drawn from these studies, is that Caucasoids of European descent have negligible traces of non-Caucasoid maternal admixture. Sub-Saharan African traces of such ancestry are found at levels of about 1% in many populations. But not in Greeks(a).


References
1) Richards et al., Tracing European founder lineages in the Near Eastern mtDNA pool. American Journal of Human Genetics, 67, 1251-1276. Online paper and supplementary data in Vincent Macaulay's home page.
2) Michele Belledi et al., Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations, European Journal of Human Genetics, 8, 480 - 486 (01 Jul 2000)
3) Giuseppe Passarino et al., Different genetic components in the Norwegian population revealed by the analysis of mtDNA and Y chromosome polymorphisms, European Journal of Human Genetics10, 521 - 529 (23 Aug 2002)
4) Esteban J. Parra et al., Estimating African American Admixture Proportions by Use of Population-Specific Alleles, Am. J. Hum. Genet., 63:1839-1851, 1998

So dream on and on and on and on and on and on and on and
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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Chieftain
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 02:23
Originally posted by vulkan02


Illyrians never liked the Greeks or Hellization therefore they never bothered to learn their language or add Greek words.... their raided their ships and ports tho


Are you refering to the Hellines that colonized Illyria since the 6th BC???



Proof of the colonization of Illyria by Hellines is this "Illyrian helmet" clearly of Pelloponessean style.

But anyway, those were Illyrians you're an Albanian, what connection do you have to them???? NONE


Edited by Phallanx
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  Quote Molossos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2005 at 02:59

Originally posted by Phallanx

But anyway, those were Illyrians you're an Albanian, what connection do you have to them???? NONE

I believe that was a good point Phallanx. I base my comment on the strong evidence that Illyrian is not the ancestor of modern Albanian, since the former extinct language belongs to the Centum group of Indo-European, while Albanian is part of the Satem group, like ancient Thracian. However, I can't explain how Thracian populations could migrate to the western Balkans.

Maybe Gheg Albanians of Serbia and Skopje are somehow related to the Thracoid ancient populations of the central Balkans. However, there can be found similarities between standard or dialects of Albanian and Illyrian lingual material.



Edited by Molossos
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