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The Byzantine Empire in modern times

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Belisarius View Drop Down
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  Quote Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Byzantine Empire in modern times
    Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 09:31
I'm not familiar with the political consequences of such a thing, but could it be possible for Greece to acquire European Turkey and hence reacquire Constantinople? I'm also aware of the claims that descendants of the Palaeologus line survive to this day, making them heirs of the Byzantine Empire in exile. What could happen here, do you think?
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  Quote Capt. Lubber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 09:37
If Greece invaded Turkey, I'm guessing about the whole islamic world would come to turkeys defense.

Even if you did take the european part of Istanbul, you would only take about two thirds of the city.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 09:50

If Greece invaded Turkey, I'm guessing about the whole islamic world would come to turkeys defense.

Exactly like what they did for Afghanistan and Iraq!

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 09:50

You got to be joking! This is for the Tavern

 

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  Quote Capt. Lubber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 09:53
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

If Greece invaded Turkey, I'm guessing about the whole islamic world would come to turkeys defense.


Exactly like what they did for Afghanistan and Iraq!



Well, the americans are going to leave... eventually.

If the greeks are going to annex the european part of Turkey, i think there'l be jihad or something

Maybe Syria will send a few guys, or?
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A captayin shoulde live in sobrenesse
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 10:09

Oh, bullsh*t! Yeah, little Greece with 5 million population will invade a country whose military forces are the strongests in europe and has 70 million population which has a huge amount of young people with a huge potential of fighting against national enemies... You should be joking, or a blind dreamer... Man! Even the population of Istanbul is more than 15 million!

I think you Greeks should be enough aware of the hurting truth that all your efforts to bring your ridiculous "megalo idea" thing alive is total ******(open to comments). You couldnt, you cant, and you WONT be able to own our lands NEVER!!! Our ancestors knew how to kick you out of our country, and believe it, we also know that!

Because "Her Trk asker doar!" (Every Turk is born as soldier.) and "Bir Trk acuna bedeldir!" (One Turk is worth of all world.)



Edited by Oguzoglu
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  Quote Capt. Lubber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 10:35
I say it's time to come up wiuth such a devise, so that the greeks, macedonians and turks never get to see each others posts.
Loke, Attila, the grete conqueror,
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 10:53
Originally posted by Belisarius

I'm not familiar with the political consequences of such a thing, but could it be possible for Greece to acquire European Turkey and hence reacquire Constantinople? I'm also aware of the claims that descendants of the Palaeologus line survive to this day, making them heirs of the Byzantine Empire in exile. What could happen here, do you think?


Before all you Greeks and Turks get all exited, and some have done that already, I don't think there is any serious claim by any former and existing Byzantine to win the old Empire back. (Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe there are right-wing lunatics in Greece?)
As being discussed in another thread, the holder of the nominal title of Byzantine Emperor is actually Otto von Habsburg, head of the family of the former rulers of the Austro-Hungarian empire, and he certainly doesn't want the Empire back.
The only "Palaeologos" claimant I have heard of is Mr Henri Vigo Paleologo, a former hairdresser from Genoa, a confidence trickster who sells titles and orders to gullible Americans and Japanese. http://utenti.lycos.it/HERE/
So, my advice is, calm down, before this gets out of hand. Absolut nothing will happen there!
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 11:08

I'm not familiar with the political consequences of such a thing, but could it be possible for Greece to acquire European Turkey and hence reacquire Constantinople?

As Oguzoglu said, her turk asker (Turkey) is too powerful!

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  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 12:52

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

You couldnt, you cant, and you WONT be able to own our lands NEVER!!!

I'm sure the Greeks said that very same thing a long time ago. 

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  Quote Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 13:02

Everyone just calm down. I never mentioned anything about military action. I said would it be possible to acquire it. This could be done in many ways without a single shot fired.

Do the Turks really consider Istanbul/Constantinople as traditional Turkish land? It was founded by Greeks, and held by Greeks for 2000 years. The Turks have had it for only about 550 years. How do the Greeks see the city?

As for the jihad, I was under the impression that Turkey was not on too high of a standing with the Islamic world because of its western culture and (well from what I hear) rising secularism. Its ties to the United States and NATO does not help much either. Would a jihad really be called?

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 13:09
Cologne and Vienna and many other cities along the Rhien and Danube were founded by Romans, while cities like Riga and Cracow where founded by Germans....
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  Quote Aristoteles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 04:07

I would advice all fellow Greeks to simply ignore that little nationalistic/nazi/twit who spat the whole "Turkey uber alles" rabish and do not reply in kind. It does not deserve it.

I would ask the moderators though, to stop selectively ignoring the Turks when they get off board and delete this vomitous message. If it was a Greek saying that we kicked your ass and your ideas is crap and whatever, you would've already banned him.

Komnenos,

There are right wing fanatics in Greece, bound on re-creating the Byzantine Empire, claim back eastern Thrace with Constantinople and the Asia Minor coast and establish a new Paleologian line. They are marginal, very few and frankly just lunatic, harmless idiots and of course nobody listens to them. But they exist nevertheless, in the outer fringes of the Greek society. The "Megali Idea" died out along with countless Greeks in the "Minor Asia catastrophe" as we call what happened in 1922. It is written in our constitution that we do not claim land that belongs to another country and shall do nothing to facilitate any such claim.

OTOH, it is official state policy of Turkey that the Aegean Islands AND Crete should belong to Turkey.

Conclusions, comments - yours.

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  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 06:29
Originally posted by Aristoteles

OTOH, it is official state policy of Turkey that the Aegean Islands AND Crete should belong to Turkey.

No this is not true. Those islands belongs to Greece.

If Turkey had an official claim for those islands we could oppose when they had given to Greece by Italy after II World War. But we did not make any claims.

Where do you get those craps.

Militarily speaking it is impossible that Greece could invade European Turkey unless they are supported by a crusader army. Otherwise they would have to be conquered rather than conquer if they attack.

The city was not established by Greeks as you know Romans were calling the city as Byzantium. The name of Byzantium was coming from the Thracian King Byzas who was not a Greek. After the split of the Roman Empire the city has redesigned or reestablished by Constantine who is also a Roman Emperor and not Greek. Greekification of East Rome happened around the end of first millenium.  

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  Quote Aristoteles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 06:50

Alparslan, later I am going to provide you with a couple of links about the official policy of the Turkish state.

Now about Byzantion... I think you folks should start to read non-Turk historians fairly quickly.

Byzantion was established as a Greek colony in the 7th century BC (founding of the city: 660 BC) by the Greek city of Megara, and according to several sources in the settling some Chalkidonians took part as well. The founder of the city was named Vyzas and he was of course a Megarean. There are well-documented recordes of the colony foundation, you know.

It flurished, due to its position, fairly quickly and in the days before the Peloponesian war it was a member of the Athenian aliance. At some point of time the Athenian have moved in Byzantion a fair number of Athenian settlers too.

Byzantion has survived the Roman times and when Constantinus was looking for a suitable new capital, he was convinced that the magnificent location of the city, was fitting the "new Rome".

Better now?

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 07:13
If the greeks are going to annex the european part of Turkey, i think there'l be jihad or something


There is already jihad, just look at Iraq.

Greece is hard pressed to take a few small islands, let alone a sizeable portion of mainland Turkey. The immediate consequence would that Greece would get spanked rather badly. All Greece can do is count on Turkey's limited power projection abilities to threaten the odd island here and there, but i think with Turkey's by now more modern airforce, not even that is possible.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 07:15
Originally posted by Temujin

Cologne and Vienna and many other cities along the Rhien and Danube were founded by Romans, while cities like Riga and Cracow where founded by Germans....

YES! We're going to get New York back
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  Quote Aristoteles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 07:30

...first, we take Manhattan... then we take Berlin...

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  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 09:33

Originally posted by Cywr

If the greeks are going to annex the european part of Turkey, i think there'l be jihad or something


There is already jihad, just look at Iraq.

This is not related with jihad . The issue is related with "do we live in a world of caos or not?" . US was not ethic to attack Iraq. They lied continously. The aim is obvious they want more and more. They want to steal oil and control it.

USA has offered us 30 billion once more BILLION dollar to us to open our borders to US troops to attack Iraq from the north. But Turkey has refused this.

Turkey and Turks support the war on real terrorists as in the case of Afganistan. Turkey is commanding the operation in Afganistan now........ Aren't they Muslim? (Taliban and Vahabis of Arabia were the best allies of USA once. They are monsters created by USA but they bring disaster to the world)  

Do you see opposing to US in Iraq as a matter of being Muslim or Christian?

This is a matter of humanity. They bombed and killed hundreds of thousands civilians. They have polluted the country via their uranium in their bombs.

Iraq become a country of caos on the edge of a civil war and a huge environmental pollution. 

If USA goes on with this same mentality the effects of this will be much more dangerous for the world than Taliban or Vahabis issues.



Edited by Alparslan
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 09:46
Originally posted by Aristoteles

I would advice all fellow Greeks to simply ignore that little nationalistic/nazi/twit who spat the whole "Turkey uber alles" rabish and do not reply in kind. It does not deserve it.

I would ask the moderators though, to stop selectively ignoring the Turks when they get off board and delete this vomitous message. If it was a Greek saying that we kicked your ass and your ideas is crap and whatever, you would've already banned him.

Komnenos,

There are right wing fanatics in Greece, bound on re-creating the Byzantine Empire, claim back eastern Thrace with Constantinople and the Asia Minor coast and establish a new Paleologian line. They are marginal, very few and frankly just lunatic, harmless idiots and of course nobody listens to them. But they exist nevertheless, in the outer fringes of the Greek society. The "Megali Idea" died out along with countless Greeks in the "Minor Asia catastrophe" as we call what happened in 1922. It is written in our constitution that we do not claim land that belongs to another country and shall do nothing to facilitate any such claim.

OTOH, it is official state policy of Turkey that the Aegean Islands AND Crete should belong to Turkey.

Conclusions, comments - yours.

Well...

If you really think my post is really offensive and out of order, you should have a look at some fanatic nationalist posts of some greek forumers posted and not deleted before... My post is morely Defensive and i dont see anything that needs to be deleted since it doesnt mean any insults to Greeks or Greece...

And If you read my post CAREFULLY, you could see that I wrote "kick Greeks out of our country", and I havent used the words "kicking ass" even once for not insulting.

Also I dont believe that the offensive messages of greeks are more oftenly deleted than the Turks'.

And about the Turkish official state policy,

How do you know our official state policy since you cannot be a member of our military organisations and ministry? And this states change oftenly according to the changing political situations. We lost these lands during the Balkan wars because of Italian invasion for not giving them Trablusgarp (Libya). The Empire was at war with Balkan nations, so these islans couldnt be protected from invasion of Italy. Then, after WWII, Greece was gifted with those islans because they joined the allied forces and Italy lost with Germany...

So Turkey never had such a policy state and these islands officially belong to Greek borderlands today. You can be confusing these islands with Cyprus, since Turkey has a policy state about it... 

 

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