What is Heaven?

Originally posted by JanusRook What is heaven? This: Warning NSFW It's a kind of hot a firey place, with lots of reddish guys poking people with forks. But at least it ain't got any bloody Mormans in it. uh.....no Paul that's hell....but the lack of Mormon's would make it seem like heaven. As to what Mormons can expect in the afterlife here is a video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo

about that cartoon, i hope you dont think that that is what mormons believe. i mean, there ARE some truths in there, but the vast majority of that is abunch of crap.

A lot of people define heaven as eternal paradise, but I disagree. If heaven was indeed a utopian world, then why did Lucifier (aka Satan) began his rebellion? I remember reading about a book that hinted that even if our world becomes utopian society, people will not find happiness because of boredom and lack of purpose.

And what is our purpose? It depends on everyone, but mine is an adventure. A quest to Godhood. The quest would never end, for I cannot be perfect. But I think that's how God designed everything to be. For all God's creation to seek towards their purpose that binds to God.

I think of heaven as having another chance at life-possibly in another world/universe/time. and then another and another. and then more, hopefully. Life's too awesome to only have one chance at.

Originally posted by JanusRook about that cartoon, i hope you dont think that that is what mormons believe. i mean, there ARE some truths in there, but the vast majority of that is abunch of crap. Don't worry White Dragon I know the source so I take it with a grain of salt. I'm glad someone posted a response to that video though, it's always best to view both biases to sort out the truth. -------- Heaven is the full and utter realization of God's love, it is a place without suffering. In heaven we glorify God merely by existing there, and in return we receive the vision of his everlasting love. Therefore in heaven is not like being jacked up on drugs, nor is it sitting in choir practice all day. Heaven is merely the continuation of our current lives not the creation of a new one.

So a soccer player would play soccer in heaven?


Edited by Adalwolf - 05-Oct-2007 at 06:02

So a soccer player would play soccer in heaven?

Not necessarily, Adalwolf. When I say heaven is a continuation of our current lives I imply a sense that we would "grow" and do other things.

Think of it like a child playing with G.I. Joes, you could play with G.I. Joes as an adult however for the majority of scenarios this is seen as inappropriate and we just don't do it. Not that we couldn't do it, it's just as we mature we lose the desire to do childish things.

So in heaven you would consider things like soccer as immature, and thus would have no real desire to do so. Basically what I'm getting at is that we're gonna do stuff in heaven but it's going to be different and probably better than the stuff we do now. Not to say we can't bring out the old G.I. Joes every so often though .

That's why i like the pelagians...

believed that you didn't necessarily need to believe in god or be a christian to get into heaven, just a good person.

However, that was back when the church was having some tolerance problems and was a huge force in europe, so they kind of got squoshed.

Pity, but there you go.

I'm an agnostic yet I think I'm not what Christianity designates as a sinner (not a bad one anyway). So, do I get the same reward as a believer?. Or will I go to hell?

There is no reward or punishment, there is only judgement, but God himself has taken man's burden upon himself so we shall all be saved together.

Well, this way, even Hitler might be found in heaven.

A believe a truly good person would want to see Hitler in heaven.

So is the idea essentially "God decides-even if you supposedly did everything right" or what?

No, it's just God decides.... there isn't really a right, you are either with God in the end or you are not. That is the extent of our afterlife, those with God gain eternal life, and those without God become like shadows.

but only if that meant he was willing to change.

Who Hitler? Or the Good Person? (rhetorical zen-like question).....

Originally posted by JanusRook I'm an agnostic yet I think I'm not what Christianity designates as a sinner (not a bad one anyway). So, do I get the same reward as a believer?. Or will I go to hell? There is no reward or punishment, there is only judgement, but God himself has taken man's burden upon himself so we shall all be saved together.

No reward?! God has taken the burden?! We all will be saved? Excuse me Janus but it's a little to much like nonsense propaganda. I remember the time when I was a young boy and we were lectured about the greatness of the society communism had created in our country. It's the same thing: meaningless words.
Heaven and hell are reward and punishment.

Well, this way, even Hitler might be found in heaven.

A believe a truly good person would want to see Hitler in heaven.
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A truly good person would want to see everyone in heaven but that's not the point. What's important is if there is a possibility for Hitler to be forgiven, according to Christian procedures.

Originally posted by JanusRook Heaven and hell are reward and punishment. Only if you believe God condemns anyone to Hell. Which I believe he does not, since it would be unfair to assume that us mere mortals can know the Truth in this world, and without that we don't know God and therefore cannot join in his kingdom. If you read the Bible, good deeds don't get you into heaven, only God's will and grace can bring you there.

1. Christianity is not about blind belief/faith and obedience but it's about belief/faith and the seek for thruth.
2. He never talks to a person with the intention to convert him. Faith is freedom.
3. The Holy Books are mainly guidelines. The thruth lies in research: scientific, theological, phylosophical, etc.
4. The abrahamic God is the same for the related religions, but only Christianity, after Jesus Christ, follow the right path to Him.
5. Muslims have perverted the religion. Actually he was very mean in what he said when asked about the Quran: "Cineva care citeste Coranul este liber sa moara". One can translate this in different ways but what he meant was "Quran only gives you the freedom of death"
6. The other Christians (not Orthodox, so this goes for Catholic and main Catholic derived churches) are mislead but they do not face damnation.
7. The mosaics are cursed by their past but they too are not at high risk to be left out of heaven.
8. Heaven is not a reward but it's getting near and in contact with God. That contact with divinity is seen as a natural purpose rather than a reward.
9. Being good is not necessarily a path to heaven. The important thing is having "har" which I would not know how to translate in a single word. It's about the revelation of the divine to the mere human and also the ability of the individual to act the right way. Maybe Decebal or Menumorut will be able to translate it properly.
10. Atheists and agnostic are not condemned to hell but they will be also unable to reach heaven.

Bassically this sums up to:

1. There are three kind of people: heaven going, undefined and hell going.
2. Religion is the basic separator of people.
3. There's no chance for heaven if you're a muslim.

Too bad we didn't have the time to talk about other religions.