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The missing women in India

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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The missing women in India
    Posted: 15-Aug-2007 at 22:01
It may be understood as a weird way to limit demographic expansion but it remains very very disturbing: in some place around Delhi among the richest people there is close to 1 woman for 2 men for the people aged from 0 to 5 years old. In some village the rate drops as low as 2 for 5.

The richest in India simply abort as soon as they know they are expecting a female baby.

The numbers are simply amazing: 868 females for 1000 males in Rajhastan!!!

The consequences also are dreadful:
- The crimes against women (rapes) are increasing quickly
- Girls are less well treated then boys and are twice more likely to die before they are 14.
- Rich men buy poor women to marry creating a lack of women even amongst the poorest.
- The poor go as far as Bangladesh to find a spouse.
- Due to the lack of women and the price of acquiring one sometimes as many as 5 men (often brothers) may marry a single woman.

Moreover, despite what one often may think, it seems that no real improvement is happening for women. Market doesn't work here.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2007 at 22:06

Unbelievable!

It is really disgusting that there are societies were women are not considered the same than the stupid men (I am one).

As a Latin American, part of a society that appreciate women very much, I can't undestand why women are considered inferior beings in India.

We are all born of women! That's the first thing that comes to my mind.

And the problems of sexual imballances India is suffering and the obvious spread of homosexuality as well, it is something India deserves because of the bigotry against women of some of its people. A pitty.
 
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 03:15
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4855682.stm

India has banned the use of ultrasound to tell the sex of a baby since 1994.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 07:55

- Due to the lack of women and the price of acquiring one sometimes as many as 5 men (often brothers) may marry a single woman.

As I understand it, that is actually propaganda
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 07:59
This issue of infanticide is also rife in China, where the one baby rule means that families want a boy to continue the family name andthus will kill the baby girl and start again. There are similar issues with disproportionate populations there as well.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 08:41
Another one of these stories about the terrible male/female imbalance in overpopulated countries.
 
All the reports I've seen, not one has actually said why?
 
So I've no idea why it's bad.
 
In a recent report from Shang Hai where they interveiwed young women about their inferior numbers, they thought it was great. A better choice of men to choose from. Rather like the male dream of living in a city where the women outnumber them 10/1.
 
Both countries are highly overcrowded, the imbalance will lower the birth rate.
 
As long as the government make abortions easily available, there's nothing inhumane about the practice.
 
It could in a the long run improve women's status in these countries too.
 
 


Edited by Paul - 16-Aug-2007 at 08:43
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 09:10
There's nothing inhumane about infanticide...?
 
The greater choice for women to choose from? What? All the imbalance means is that there are less eligable females for marriage, meaning, in a recognised practical sense that men will find it extremely hard to find a wife, with many having to look elsewhere out of desperation.
 
So you see the imbalance lowering the birth rate in a utilitarian sense, do you? Sure you could justify neutering male babies at birth then, couldn't you?
 
There is nothing inhumane about killing an unborn child purely because of their sex? No? So I suppose there's nothing inhumane about killing an unborn child because its got a cleft lip too?
 
 
Just another example of your absolutely ridiculous views, Paul, one that I think deserves a reprimand, if at least a warning.
 
 


Edited by Dolphin - 16-Aug-2007 at 09:10
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 12:49
You really shouldn't be on a forum if you are incapable of interpreting argument and posting any kind of intelligent response.
 
My experience over the years is people whocome to this forum purely to post facecious and arrogant comments bordering on both trolling and flaming. Quickly get bored by the lack of seriousness the memebers of the forum take them in, overstep the mark and get banned. My guess is you will last weeks at best.
 
P.S. if you want to play legal games you may want to check the fact it's actually your post not mine(for a change) that violates the CoC.
 
 
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  Quote morticia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 13:57
I'm hoping that the conditions of women in India will change favorably now that there's a female president elected in July of 2007.   
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 16:50
India is a big place and the problem is regional. A lot of it is down to economics, consider the burden of dowry, an essential component of a 'traditional' Indian marriage. A daughter and you give away a truck load, a son and you receive a truck load. A daughter-in-law with a poor dowry would be treated with indifference compared to one with a bumper dowry. Contrary to popular opinion it is women and not men that are the greatest proponents of such rites and customs.
 
It is also a legacy that will change with time as a greater number of women join the labour market. Consider the typical setting where men being traditional bread winners were chiefly responsible for tougher outdoor tasks such as agriculture and warfare, were hence apportioned greater part of the meals to match the energy levels required. (By the female head of the family). Also, women's status changes within the household and society with the varying roles she goes through in her lfie and society.  These along with other factors are responsible for these enduring customs, where people even fail to question that which becomes tradition and a norm. Thus women in  the greater picture were seen to be economic liabilities.
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2007 at 04:50
Originally posted by Paul

You really shouldn't be on a forum if you are incapable of interpreting argument and posting any kind of intelligent response.
 
My experience over the years is people whocome to this forum purely to post facecious and arrogant comments bordering on both trolling and flaming. Quickly get bored by the lack of seriousness the memebers of the forum take them in, overstep the mark and get banned. My guess is you will last weeks at best.
 
P.S. if you want to play legal games you may want to check the fact it's actually your post not mine(for a change) that violates the CoC.
 
 
 
 
Good comment Paul, boy was I told...
 
And for your information, your reply also violates the CoC for derogatory remarks, which seems to be a staple of your behaviour towards myself on this forum.
 
And once again, you have diverted attention away from your original post, which still remains as ridiculous as ever.
 
As a matter of interpretation, I believe the killing of unborn babies due only to their sex, whether legal or not in that country is extremely humane, and many would agree with me on this.
 
The fact that there are so many men to women may provide a benifit to some people, but the overwhelming majority of the side effects of this are negative. Men cant find a wife, so insest becomes common. The female population, as such a small percentage, are under more pressure to stay at home and rear children, thus lowering their chances of education and independant living. There is a lack of female role-models in society, and the birth-rate plummets. You claim this is a good thing, that is because you are from, I am assuming Britain, where there are no such family restrictions and thus you can look upon the issue ina utilitarian sense, not in the sense that a one child rule infringes on the human rights of the parents and limits their social freedom. The family is the cornerstone of western society and has been warped in countries such as China, where the state intervens past the front door. In Britain, and outlined explicitly in Ireland's Constitution, the family is the unit under which society is built, and no such family limiting practice would ever be allowed to be instituted.
 
 
 
India's Lost girls
 
 
 
 
A population expert who advises Chinese politicians has warned that China faces a serious threat from the gender imbalance caused by the widespread preference for sons over daughters.

Abortion or even infanticide of girl babies means that in some areas there are now as many as 130 men for every 100 women - so that many young men have no-one to marry, and there are growing problems with prostitution and abduction of women.

Louisa Lim reports on the causes and social consequences of the Chinese bias against girls.

And Elisabeth Croll, Professor of Chinese Anthropology at the School of African and Oriental Studies and journalist, Zhang Lijia joins Martha to talk about the issues.

 

Female foetuses aborted

China's age-old preference for boys is being exacerbated, both by the one child policy and by modern technology, which can detect the sex of a child early in pregnancy.

Such technology has led to a massive growth in the abortion of female foetuses.

The census found 6.8 million people in Hong Kong and 440,000 people in Macau, according to Mr Zhu.

The report also said the figure included Taiwan, which Beijing does not control, but claims as part of its territory.

The self-governing island was found to have a population of 22.3 million - although Chinese officials did not comment on how the Taiwanese population figures were obtained.

 

Vietnam to Ban gender Testing

 
 
 
 
 
China acts to protect Baby girls
 
 
 
 
China's unwanted girls
 
 
 
 

Anticipating social problems
The report, carried in the newspaper, said Chinas sex ratio for newborn babies in 2005 was 118 boys to 100 girls, a huge jump from 110 to 100 in 2000.

In some regions such as the southern provinces of Guangdong and Hainan, the ratio has ballooned to 130 boys to 100 girls, the newspaper said. The average for industrialized countries is between 104 and 107 boys for every 100 girls.

The report predicted that by 2020 the imbalance would mean men of marriageable age especially those with low income or little education would find it difficult to find wives, resulting in possible social problems.

The problem is not just a rural issue, with the newborn gender imbalance also widening in cities. In the first 11 months of 2006, there were 109 boys born in Beijing for every 100 girls.

China Daily said one way to solve the problem would be to create a proper social security system so rural couples would not feel they needed a son to depend on when they get old.

Up to 800 million of Chinas 1.3 billion people live in the countryside.

 
 
China's problems
 
 
 
The seriousness of the problem
 
 
 
Gender imbalance becomes critical
 
 
 
 
The list goes on, and on, and I am hard pushed to find a single source that says its good for the people affected, because (laughs loudly), there are more men to choose from.
 
Nor do I find too many reputable sources (ie none) that claim the practice is humane either...
 
 
 


 
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2007 at 05:51
Originally posted by Morty

I'm hoping that the conditions of women in India will change favourably now that there's a female president elected in July of 2007.

Why?
They have had several women prime ministers before. The Prime Minister being the head of government who actually runs the country.
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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2007 at 05:54
Why does everyone here shy from confrontation with Paul? Seriously?
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2007 at 22:01
Because Paul's too cool to fight
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  Quote morticia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2007 at 13:29
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Morty

I'm hoping that the conditions of women in India will change favourably
now that there's a female president elected in July of 2007.
Why?They have had several women prime ministers before. The Prime Minister being the head of government who actually runs the country.


Why not? There's always hope for the Indian women as well as for all women worldwide. Hopefully, having women on top government levels can bring more awareness of women issues which would otherwise stay on the back burner with a male only officials. I'm not saying it will happen overnight, but the potential for success is, at the very least, possible.
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  Quote morticia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2007 at 13:34
Originally posted by Parnell

Why does everyone here shy from confrontation with Paul? Seriously?


Hi Parnell and welcome to the women's forum! There's no need for any confrontations with anyone for rendering their opinions on a topic. That's all Paul is doing, as well as yourself, and all opinions are very much welcomed here. In other words, it's just "Paul's Way"!
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 06:47
Why not? There's always hope for the Indian women as well as for all women worldwide. Hopefully, having women on top government levels can bring more awareness of women issues which would otherwise stay on the back burner with a male only officials. I'm not saying it will happen overnight, but the potential for success is, at the very least, possible.

I don't think women in general are any more capable, or have any more desire, to bring awareness to womens issues than men are.
In order to get poor womans rights, the majority of women have to be complicit in it.

Besides, even if India's new president does care more, that does necessarily mean that care extends to the lower classes.
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 14:13
Fewer women? That sucks for the guys.
 
Is it true that naturally, there are more females born then males? I heard it's so that males have a greatter choice or something to that effect and is true for all or most mammals. If true, thats alot of female babies gone missing... 
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  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2007 at 04:52
No, there have always been more boys to girls born. The reason for this is still unknown, but one realistic reason is that boys are more likely to die by 'misadventure' or whatever, and that evolution has evened this out by increasing the number born.
 
If you're really interested, this link explains all the theoretical reasons that 106 boys are born for every 100 girls..


Edited by Dolphin - 30-Aug-2007 at 04:53
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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2007 at 06:09
Call me an alarmist, but if this evolutionary process continues, could we finally reach a situation where men outnumber women almost entirely? Maybe in a hundred million years or so, but still?
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