Polish Winged Hussars?

Originally posted by ataman Originally posted by xi_tujue First of all I haven't read all the post but I think it's verry "strange" that the best european cavalary begins to develop after the Mongolian/Tatar invasion of Europe   Well, every period has its own 'the best troops' Originally posted by xi_tujue as for the winged part SUPRISE!!     It's from Osprey about Polish army, isn't it? As far as wings are concerned, they are (I write only about this kind of wing with wooden frame) Polish invention, which were copied by some Tartars.   Originally posted by xi_tujue (how many of you knew this oh yeah the word uhlan comes froml the Turkic word oglan wich means (slave)boy   Well, it is a common knowledge in Poland that the word 'uhlan' ('ułan' in Polish) is a Tartar origin. There was a Tartar family in P-L Commonwealth called 'Ułan'. Because so many members of this family served in the Polish army, its name become a synonym of the formation where they served.

Developing and copying are 2 different things.

as for the wing thing I have mu doubts

Originally posted by xi_tujue Developing and copying are 2 different things. as for the wing thing I have mu doubts

Look all I'm saying is that its a hard to believe that a group of people who are known for their cavalary. are going to copy from people who started to use cavalary(well make it count) after they came to that region wich was about 1000 years ago(huns & bulgars).

I find it verry "intresting" that they best cavalary in European history are the Hussars, uhlans & Cosacks. There fighting style are so similar to those of  ......... 



you fill in the empty spot

Originally posted by axeman Actually those wings have balkan origins. This feature was spread out in eastern Europe by Serbian mercenaries ( Gusars, where the name hussar comes from), in Ottoman empire these soldiers were known as Delis.

delis do you mean deliler
Deli means crazy in Turkish


Edited by xi_tujue - 07-Feb-2007 at 09:15

Originally posted by ataman Hussars in the battle of Kalisz 1706 (painted by unknown painter in early 18th c.)

wow even there banners look like mongolian horsehair banners

Originally posted by xi_tujue [QUOTE=ataman]wow even there banners look like mongolian horsehair banners

Originally posted by ataman Originally posted by xi_tujue Look all I'm saying is that its a hard to believe that a group of people who are known for their cavalary. are going to copy from people who started to use cavalary(well make it count) after they came to that region wich was about 1000 years ago(huns & bulgars).   xi_tujue, you can believe or don't believe anything you want, but as far as wings are concerned (the wings with wooden frame), AFAIK there is no evidence that Tartars used them before the Poles. Originally posted by xi_tujue I find it verry "intresting" that they best cavalary in European history are the Hussars, uhlans & Cosacks. There fighting style are so similar to those of  .........  you fill in the empty spot   Tell me which Mongol or Tartar troops charged enemies with over 6m long hollowed lances? Which Mongol or Tartar troops used iron armors and fire weapon? We can alawys find some similarities between every kind of cavalry (the most obvious is using a horse ), but claiming that Polish winged hussars fought like Tartars is completly wrong. Tartars and Polish hussars fought a lot of times times with each other. And they fought in different manners. Why? Because they were completly different kinds of cavalry. The Poles, armored, armed of long lances, charged straight on enemies. The Tartars, mostly unarmored, armed of bows and sabres, tried to outflank hussars and attack their backs. Or they stayed at some distance and shot to hussars.  Hussars charged in close order ('knee to knee'). Tartars usuallu fought in loose formation.

thats because the Tatars were iregular troops who were used to do raids on the enemy or scare the enemy.

If i'm not wrong they also had heavly cavalary with lances

Edited by ataman - 07-Feb-2007 at 09:56

Originally posted by xi_tujue so I did some research well accualy I asked some friends who are studying history I will quote him here(not from the forum) the wings were first worn by Ottoman Delis of course,

Originally posted by ataman   Axeman, do you know any evidence that wings with wooden frame (I don't write about natural wings) were used outside Poland before 16th c.?

Shields of this asymmetric shape were the standard equipment of early hussars. They were known by the Turks as "Rumelian" (Balkan) shields, by the Italians as Bosnian shields and by the Poles as Hungarian shields. The winged claw device appears in Central European heraldry and evidently inspired some horsemen to tack actual wings on the shields.

Soldier with similar shield most likely Bosnian.