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Divine Inconsistencies

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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Divine Inconsistencies
    Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 03:52

You can always answer them yourself.

Oh well, if your talking about my personal view.
1) Don't know. Nor do I have any satisfactory definition of soul to conduct any sort of investigation.
2) Don't know. But will point out if we don't know our purpose how are we supposed to know any other form of lifes purpose. Besides, why do we need a purpose?

It's only too clear. According to religion, Earth is located at the center of the universe, whereas moden science proves that it's just an insignificant planet.

According to Islam at least Earth is an insignificant little planet too. I'll also point out that size doesn't matter.
Originally posted by Feanor

Originally posted by me


Why do you think religion is supposed to answer ever question?

Because it claims to understand god and pretty much everything, right?

Wrong... where did you get that idea from?
And it makes demands about my personal life too. It should prove that it's not a league of charlatans and delusional fools.

People spend most of their lifes following charlatans and delusional fools. Thats not an argument not to follow a religion. Besides, my religion does do a pretty good job proving just that.
Originally posted by Feanor

Originally posted by me


Why do you ask irrelevant questions?

Irrelevant to what?

Well pretty well everything actually, what is it relavent to?

As far as I know, Buddhism is nontheistic and does not claim to know about god.

In China, Buddhism is theorically monothestic, but certainly appears high polytheistic. However the questions you asked don't have much to do with Theism, and I'm fairly sure they are contemplated by Buddhists.

By the way, you never answered my last (and most important) question:
Why does loading affect the behaviour of logic circuits?

Originally posted by Anton

This kind of hope is baseless. You believe in Science like many others believe in God. There is no difference between you and them.

That is so true. Let no one speak of science again unless they have at least done science at some sort of university level
Originally posted by Feanor

I am dialectical materialist


I am sorry, but I read this as "Dialectric Material" the first time
but I'm not manipulating any facts to hjack science

No, but you are inventing a new meaning for the word.
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 10:19
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Don't know. But will point out if we don't know our purpose how are we supposed to know any other form of lifes purpose. Besides, why do we need a purpose?

We don't have any purpose? Doesn't Islam consider human beings slaves of god?

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

According to Islam at least Earth is an insignificant little planet too. I'll also point out that size doesn't matter.

According to Islam, humans are the most precious beings (The most precious slaves, I guess.) in this universe.

Science tells us that humans are just insignificant species who live on an insignificant planet which is located in a insignificant solar system in an insignificant galaxy.

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

People spend most of their lifes following charlatans and delusional fools. Thats not an argument not to follow a religion.

Not all charlatans and delusional fools are religious, agreed, but all religious people are either... I think you get the idea.

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

By the way, you never answered my last (and most important) question:

Because I didn't understand it. Can you rephrase it please?

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

That is so true. Let no one speak of science again unless they have at least done science at some sort of university level

Religion and science are fundamentally different. I don't say this because I dislike religion. I love philosophy, but science and philosophy are very different as well.

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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 10:59
Originally posted by Feanor

but science and philosophy are very different as well.
 
That last masterpiece of yours tells much how do you love philosophy. First lecture in any University course is about  Philosophy and its place among other Sciences. Go to study and come back prepared. Tongue
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 12:27
No single definition is uncontroversial, but philosophy is distinctive to formal, natural and social sciences due to its subjective nature.
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 12:51
Well some philosophers distinguish it from a science, but even they consider  philosophy as a precussor of any science. Philosophy determines science's methodology.
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 12:52
Originally posted by Feanor

Not all charlatans and delusional fools are religious, agreed, but all religious people are either... I think you get the idea.
I didn't get the idea. Could you please finish the statement?
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 13:00
Originally posted by Anton

I didn't get the idea. Could you please finish the statement?

No, you will have to use your imagination.

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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 13:06
Originally posted by Anton

Well some philosophers distinguish it from a science,buteven they consider philosophy as a precussor of any science. Philosophy determinesscience's methodology.

I never said that they are not related with each other, but that doesn't make philosophy a form of science like formal, natural and social sciences. Example: Mathematics, physics and history, respectively.

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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 13:38
Originally posted by Feanor

Example: Mathematics, physics and history, respectively.

 
According to Philosophy, Mathematics is not Science. Becasue it does not have an object to study.
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 14:12
Originally posted by Anton

According to Philosophy, Mathematics is not Science. Becasue it does not have an object to study.

Debatable. It's generally considered a type of formal sciences along with logic and statistics. I'm sure you have heard of axiom.

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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 14:46
Heard a bit. Smile Why? How is related to the question?
Logic, statistics etc. are instruments that mathematics supply to other sciences (or to sciences without "other" as philosopers say). People who consider Mathematics as a type of formal Science are not philosopers I suppose Smile


Edited by Anton - 11-Aug-2007 at 14:48
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 14:49
We don't have any purpose? Doesn't Islam consider human beings slaves of god?

I dont think anyone need slavery of human being.. By the way, treating good to your mother has no relation with slavery to god..
 
According to Islam, humans are the most precious beings (The most precious slaves, I guess.) in this universe.
 
Related to human. He can be worse than animal and better than angels.
 
Science tells us that humans are just insignificant species who live on an insignificant planet which is located in a insignificant solar system in an insignificant galaxy.

which science say this? Until now, human being is most complicated creature we know.

Heart is a small part of body too but absolutely not insignificiant part..
 
Anyway, Human being is not accepted as superior. I dont remember anyone said human being is better than jins.(quran doesnot talk other beings but that does not mean they dont exist.)
 
 Cool conclusion. The point is, dinosaurs were more far more significant.

Because they are bigger?

 
size does not matter.LOL
By the way, I want to ask a question too. I am curious what science say about this..
 
When did time begin?


Edited by Mortaza - 11-Aug-2007 at 14:57
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 15:54
Originally posted by Mortaza

I dont think anyone need slavery of human being..

Spare me of your demagogy, will you? Humans being slaves of god is the most basic Islamic fact along with Islam meaning 'submission'.

Originally posted by Mortaza

By the way, treating good to your mother has no relation with slavery to god..

You don't have to believe in a metaphysical concept to treat your mother well.

Originally posted by Mortaza

Related to human. He can be worse than animal and better than angels.

I'm not talking about morality. According to Islam; animals, plants, environment and pretty much everything else exist to serve human needs.

Can you tell me how Antares, the red giant star in the initial post which would include the orbit of Mars if it was in the place of Sun, is serving humans?

Originally posted by Mortaza

which science say this? Until now, human being is most complicated creature we know.

Yes, because humans evolved into what they are now. If you value science, that is the case.

Still, what you say is irrelevant. I am pointing out the fact that religions are undeniably human - centric about existence.

Originally posted by Mortaza

Because they are bigger?

No, because they lived on this planet eight hundred times longer than we did until today.

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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 16:09
It is a matter of interpretation. No religion supppose that human is a slave of God. 

Edited by Anton - 11-Aug-2007 at 16:09
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 16:22
Originally posted by Anton

It is a matter of interpretation.

No, otherwise I wouldn't use 'the most basic Islamic fact' expression. 'Muslim' literally means one who submits to god.

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 16:33
I submit law of Turkey. am I slave?
 
 
God put some law, You must not follow them.. You should(advice not order.) Noone force you(Take a gun and try, be sure God will not stop you.It is your free will) You are free to do what you want..
 
killing is a banned action by god. I am not slave so I should kill someone for my freedom.. Yes I agree with you. This looks like funny.
 
You should not play with words.(No, You are not my slave. I am just advicing.)


Edited by Mortaza - 11-Aug-2007 at 16:34
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  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 17:09
Being a metaphysical concept, god cannot be observed / experimented on. That's why science simply ignores it.


But wouldnt that be there to negate the concept? Generally, when there is no evidence in something that defies the basic laws of out understanding of the universe and evidence cannot be collected, people then dismiss it.

Outside of "because God says so", how exactly does science and religion work together?
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 17:35
Originally posted by Mortaza

I submit law of Turkey. am I slave?

Dear Mortaza, I was expecting better of you. Aren't human beings mentioned as 'Allah'ın kulları' in our language?

Note that it's not a Turkish interpretation, but universally accepted fact among Muslims.

Anton may know little about Islam, but you shouldn't abuse it.

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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 17:38
Well in slavonic languages there is also expression "rab bozhi" (God's slave) which does not necessarily mean word for word. This is I repeate, matter of interpretation. And absolutely does not affect human freedom.
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 17:45
Originally posted by Anton

...which does not necessarily mean word for word. And absolutely does not affect human freedom.

Yeah, god doesn't lash or chain people, for obvious reasons, if that's what you mean. But it undeniably affects intellectual freedom of human beings.

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