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Strange weapon

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  Quote Desperado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Strange weapon
    Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 10:32
The following pictures clearly show the true brutality
of the medieval warfare:



I'm particularly interested in identifying the type of the two-handed weapon, which is used by the knight on the left. It looks like a combination of a scythe and a great sword, or a two-handed sabre and must be really formidable.





Where's the romanticism of chivalry - this is a pure butchery.

The source of the pictures.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 15:20
i've seen that thing before, but not used by a knight, must have been France or Spain. i'll have to look it up. whats also interesting, it seems there are horse archers on the last pic.
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  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 17:24
Desperado
 
There is nothing romantic about warfare or battles - they use every mean they have to kill the enemy. Just like portrayed in your pictures, but much more dirty, messy and bloody.
 
Mostly, the knights saved their chivalry for the ladies I think Wink
 
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 17:36
The sword's a falchion. They were fairly common across medieval Europe.
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  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2007 at 04:32
Yes, they use reflexbows with non-bending siyahs. Interesting... Where is this picture from?
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2007 at 06:45
I agree about the last pic, it is interesting the archer appears to be mounted. But I don't actually see a horse coming out from under the archer, so it could be that the man is a background figure on foot behind men who are mounted with lances and swords.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2007 at 13:19
Originally posted by Paul

The sword's a falchion. They were fairly common across medieval Europe.


thats not a falchion. falchions are short, one-handed and broad at the top and have a handguard, which is almost the exact opposite of this weapon. but i've seen this weapon before, i'll have to look up my books.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2007 at 14:05
Falchion can be of any length. The're a style of sword rather than a length. The are plenty of examples upto 40 inches long. It's also a very varied sword with no hard fast rules and blade shape. I've seen some almost identical to dao, even with the 's' shaped hilt.
 
 
I've seen the exact sword to, can't remeber where though. If it's not a Falchion it's still pretty consistent with medieval sword desin. Quite conservative really.


Edited by Paul - 10-Aug-2007 at 14:20
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  Quote Desperado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2007 at 17:31
Well, the pictures are from the The Maciejowski Bible.-"...Of French origin, the Maciejowski Bible was commissioned by King Louis IX (Saint Louis) of France (1214 - 1270). Even the most authoritative sources can only stipulate with certainty that it was created somewhere between 1244 - 1254AD; hence, the oft cited "Circa 1250"..."
The explanation of the authors of the site, is that this is a "a two-handed Glaive". And also the archers are indeed, not mounted.

@Northman
Walter Scott's novels were my first books on medieval warfare. There everything is romantic and beautiful, even the fierce battles. Although, as it appears they give a not very accurate impression on the subject.


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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 14:40
yeah as expected it is French:



David Nicolle says it might be the faussart, a weapon only known from written sources. anyways, i personally favour two-handed glaive over falchion.
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  Quote Jubelu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 14:33
That is neither a Falchion nor a Glaive. First it lacks a crossguard. Glaive sounds more reasonable, but a basic glaive is a polearms with long wooden-shaft. This weapon, although resembles features of a Glaive, apparently used for close combat. This primary source is supposed to be composed in 1250, generally not the age of polearms. Bear in mind that Glaive, Fauchard  and Voulge developed at least in the late quarter of XIV century, which is Late Medieval.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 17:27
The blade shape is akin to the Scamaseax. They also had no crossguard and similiar hilts. However were a little too short. The one below from the British Museum is 83cm approx.
 
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2007 at 19:15
The modern name for it is a "warbrand"
 
A possible ancient name is a faussart (as Jubelu suggests), which along with falchion, falx, falce and falcata all derive from the latin word 'fal' (Scythe) so it's a scythe.
 
Either way it's generally believed not to be a sword, but a cut down polearm.
 
 
 
Faussart
 
 
 
Warbrand
 
 
 
 
 
 
Warbrand


Edited by Paul - 21-Aug-2007 at 19:27
Light blue touch paper and stand well back

http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk

http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2007 at 20:24
There are 3 examples of the same weapon in the Collection housed in the Imperial Residence in Nurnberg.
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  Quote deadkenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2007 at 20:58
Originally posted by Desperado

The following pictures clearly show the true brutality
of the medieval warfare: ....

Where's the romanticism of chivalry - this is a pure butchery.


Although the whole 'knight thing' is 'romanticized' in western literature, the fact is the battles tended to consist of 'hacking' and 'bashing' each other with some pretty nasty weapons.  That, plus given the state of the 'medical arts' (leaches!) one would probably die eventually of any serious wound.


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  Quote Jubelu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 02:46

This the point that we must make perfectly clear, Faussart/Faussard/Faussard is totally different from Fauchard as many schollars mistakenly assume. As Paul said, this is a characteristic French weapon was used in XII or XIII century. In my personal experience, faussar is not very long and not very popular in High Medieval warfare. Paul's excellent image needs a website for reference. Hopefully he still keeps it. I saw these pieces in Ebay and some Antique markets and 99 percents they are faked. Probably this weapon is extremely rare in terms of excavating.



Edited by Jubelu - 22-Aug-2007 at 02:47
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 05:35
Light blue touch paper and stand well back

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http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk
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  Quote Sikander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 16:53
Also interesting to notice is that most of the wounds are on the head AS IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED!!!
 
In a Spanish magazine "La Aventura de la Historia", Carlos Vara, an historian and also a doctor, wrote an article ("A Muerte!") on the wounds on the corpses from the Battle of Wisby.
The bone cuts were tremendous! Some 30% of the mortal wounds were on the left side of the head (the parietal bone); a guy had both his legs cut off by one single stroke (a very hard thing to do, according to the author, any achievable by a very brutal and strong man).
Then there's a lot of injuries that couldn't be registred because they were inflicted on soft tisues (beley, etc.). In every case, the result was ghastly!
 
As for the weapon, I can add nothing more that what has been said. It's a sort of falchion, or faussart, or an addapted glaive (although in this case it would be bent downwards)
 
 
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 17:10
Originally posted by Paul

A possible ancient name is a faussart (as Jubelu suggests),


*cough*


Originally posted by Jubelu

As Paul said, this is a characteristic French weapon


*cough*

Originally posted by Temujin

yeah as expected it is French:

David Nicolle says it might be the faussart, a weapon only known from written sources. anyways, i personally favour two-handed glaive over falchion.


Tongue



Edited by Temujin - 23-Aug-2007 at 17:14
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 22:02
Originally posted by Temujin

Originally posted by Paul

A possible ancient name is a faussart (as Jubelu suggests),


*cough*

David Nicolle says it might be the faussart, a weapon only known from written sources. anyways, i personally favour two-handed glaive over falchion.


Tongue

[/QUOTE]
 
 
Of course this is entirely Temujin's fault.
 
 
It's just I'm not entirely sure how yet....... hmm aliens, mind control rays, David Hasslehoff................
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