Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)
Effects of the Arab Revolt on Turkish Defeat |
Post Reply 
|
Page <123> |
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Google Delicious Digg StumbleUpon Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks reddit Facebook MySpace Newsvine Furl Topic Search  Topic Options
|
|||
Mortaza 
Tsar 
Joined: 21-Jul-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3711 |
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Effects of the Arab Revolt on Turkish DefeatPosted: 12-Aug-2007 at 07:10 |
|||
|
I think they said that, caliphate is captured by young turks.
|
||||
 |
||||
|
DayI
Sultan 
Joined: 30-May-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2408 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Aug-2007 at 05:51 |
|||
|
the grandfather of the founder of arabia was hanged by Mehmet ali pasha in Istanbul, the governor of Egypt because he might tried to rebel or something.
One of the arab princes visited that place recently... |
||||
|
Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
[IMG">http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg"> |
||||
|
||||
|
mamikon
Sultan
Joined: 16-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2200 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Aug-2007 at 07:48 |
|||
Yes, the rebels....but why do you think the majority of the population in Eastern Turkey is still Kurdish Moreover, contrary to popular belief the Ottoman Empire only lost because its allies lost, but it had captured most of the Caucasus in 1918, including oil-rich baku which supplied a substantial part of world's oil population back in 1918. Edited by mamikon - 13-Aug-2007 at 07:49 |
||||
|
||||
|
Temujin
King 
Sirdar Bahadur Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: Eurasia Online Status: Offline Posts: 5221 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Aug-2007 at 11:18 |
|||
|
no thats not accurate, the ottoman empire capitulated well before germany and Austria-Hungary. also, the Ottoman forces in palestine and Iraq were pushed back to the borders of modern Turkey. the only reason why the ottomans were able to make significant land gains int eh caucasus was due to the overthrowing of the czar and the ensuing anarchy which caused the central powers to make huge landgrabs on former imperial russian lands. before that, the Russians were already deep into eastern anatolia, Russians having already reached Trabzon with a combined land and sea invasion.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Seko
Emperor 
Spammer Joined: 01-Sep-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8595 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Aug-2007 at 11:29 |
|||
|
I just wrote a long post only to have it obliterated by mispressed buttons on my keyboard.
The jist of it comprised of Ottoman forces diverted to hotspots. In 1915 the Allies learned the hard way that sea born landings were futile. Instead a slow marching advance with artillery protection would do in the Ottomans at Gaza and Jerusalem after Townsend's surrender at Kut. This British alliance from 300,000 based in Egypt would prove vital to the Allies. 1915 also saw the Eastern front battles between the Ottomans and Russia. The Russians would take that sphere with a victory at Sarikamis.
The Arab desrtions and revolts did influence Ottoman manpower. Startegic objectives were taken in 1917. Bagdhad and Jerusalem. The Yildirim force saw it's end at Damascus in 1918. This left the Eastern front as the only remaining loction for Ottoman victories. In 1917 the Turks retook Sarikamis and advanced to Trabzon, Erzurum, Van, Kars, and Tifls. Thanks to civil unrest and German dictations the Russians were out of the war but left behind arms caches. A Trans-Caucasian Federatioin would face the Ottomans, manily Georgian, Armenian and Kurd. The Ottomans advanced to the Caspian and took Baku in 1918. While losing the war, on September 15 the Ottomans still had one last victory to claim. However, the Ottomans would cease hostilities with an armistice in October, hence withdrawing from the war.
Goat - Enver Pasha. His dreams instead of gneralship cost the Ottomans at the Eastern front over 150,000 troops.
Milestone - Balfour Declaration. Britain established Palestine for the Jewish people. Arab worries were just beginning. Edited by Seko - 13-Aug-2007 at 11:50 |
||||
|
||||
|
mamikon
Sultan
Joined: 16-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2200 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Aug-2007 at 11:57 |
|||
|
It is true that by 1917 Russians had penetrated as far as Erzurum, but they withdrew that same year, leaving Armenian and Georgian irregulars in the eastern front. Germany took a protectorate over "Georgia" while Enver marched on to Baku and captured it in September (led by Nuri Pasha).
As far as I know, the treaty of Mudros brought back the Sultan in opposition by the CUP, which still had the power...Enver's army was the only one making gains in late 1918 |
||||
|
||||
|
mamikon
Sultan
Joined: 16-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2200 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Aug-2007 at 12:04 |
|||
|
Actually, does anyone know the boundaries of the Trans-Caucasian Federation?
|
||||
|
||||
|
Seko
Emperor
Spammer Joined: 01-Sep-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8595 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Aug-2007 at 12:09 |
|||
|
The Federation comprised the independant states of Armenia, Georgia and Azaerbaijan. Don't know the limits of the boundaries though.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Guests
Guest 
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Aug-2007 at 12:44 |
|||
|
Seko,
150,000 men. a Field army tied down in CI Work. Definatly a tangible effect. Could have made the difference in the whole Syria-Palestine Campaign.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Seko
Emperor
Spammer Joined: 01-Sep-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8595 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Aug-2007 at 13:11 |
|||
|
Yup. Between the outbreak of war in 1914 and the Ottoman advance to Baku the Turks had lost 90,000 and 40,000 captured in 1915 at the Eastern Front in Anatolia. In 1916 the Ottomans contiued to lose ground and men. This time 34,000 dead or captured. Reconstituted efforts by the Ottomans helped capture lost lands from the previous year but resulted in another 30,000 lost souls. This all happened before the final and successful Ottoman push into the caucasus.
|
||||
|
||||
|
aslanlar
Samurai 
Joined: 12-May-2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 124 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Aug-2007 at 17:58 |
|||
|
It's blacklisted and off-topic, and yet you still felt the need to say that. Honestly, are you saying the armenians didn't revolt!
Anyway, enough of this! As this thread has pointed out, the Ottomans dealt more desicively with the armenians. This is probably due to the fact that it was closer to Anatolia, the homeland of the Ottoman Empire (and where most Turks lived). Also, It was a location with direct Russian interference, quite dangerous (as they managed to reach all they way to Trabzon). As for the Arabs, it was definately a stab in the back (or atleast that's how the Ottomans viewed it). They were our Muslim brothers, yet they betrayed us. However, i completely support the Arab uprisings. The world was going through a transformation, and nationalism and indipendance was growing throughout the world. It was only a matter of time (even if the Ottoman Empire didn't collapse) that the arab lands would seperate. It was smaller then Russian attacks and it didn't aim to penetrate into anatolia. That being said, it still converted Turkish soldiers to the south-east of it's empire. By the way, i would like the thank Seko and Al Jassas for some great posts  Edited by aslanlar - 13-Aug-2007 at 18:13 |
||||
|
"The league is alright when sparrows dispute but it can do little when eagles argue" -Mussolini
|
||||
|
||||
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 12:28 |
|||
|
But I find it interesting. No Arab revolt. No campaign of 1917, no Balfour Declaration, no mandate, no Israel. So one can say (with some vindication if you are an Ottomon nationalist; is there such a thing) that the Arabs reaped what they sowed.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Lmprs
Arch Duke 
Joined: 30-Dec-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1869 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 13:42 |
|||
|
...
Edited by Feanor - 07-Oct-2008 at 10:11 |
||||
|
||||
|
Omar al Hashim
King
Suspended Joined: 05-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5697 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 07:25 |
|||
Unlikely, No Arab revolt, Ottoman Empire still falls, British and French invasions sometime between 1917 and 1922. After Germany and Austria surrendered the Ottoman Empire was going to have to surrender too. The Arab revolt probably only stopped the westerners getting their hands on the middle east by a year or so. |
||||
|
||||
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 07:50 |
|||
|
The Mid East was a backward theater, given to second rate (ie war raised) Indian Army divisions and British territorials (third rate). If the Turks still had an army in the sector and had been able to recruit from Arabs (there were lots of Arabs in the Turkish army at Gallopoli), who knows. As it is the Brits needed to send reinforcements to the Mid East in 1916-17.
|
||||
|
||||
|
kurt
Consul 
Joined: 17-Apr-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 358 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 10:09 |
|||
**Edited due to being a discussion of a blacklisted topic**
Regarding the Turkish-Arab split, it isn't as simple as an ideological dispute occuring abruptly after the Young Turk cou'p. The process was more or less gradual; as the Tanzimat reforms were applied, Arab traditions were being outlawed (such as slavery, meaning slaves couldn't be kidnapped from Kenya and eastern Africa). I'd say the estrangement began under Abdulaziz, worsened during Abdulhamid, and became irreversible after the Young Turks came to power. Even so, Arab tribes still contested and warred with each other just prior to the great war over their loyalty to the Ottoman Regime (look up the Al-Rashid tribe). Edited by Sparten - 20-Aug-2007 at 11:00 |
||||
|
Karadenizli
|
||||
|
||||
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 10:58 |
|||
|
Unfortunatly the fact is that the Armenian topic is blacklisted here. As a result I have been forced to edit the above post.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Kapikulu
Arch Duke
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Berlin Online Status: Offline Posts: 1914 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Sep-2007 at 20:28 |
|||
There was not any such organized major Kurdish rebellions before the foundation of Turkish Republic, so 1920 date is wrong data.
Not all, but some got into active rebellion against the state, being also supported by lovely British, and those were crushed by the army, though it took a lot of time and effort.
Eventually, Republic of Turkey, who was claiming Mosul region on basis of the Armistice Line during the Mondros(Mudros) Cease-Fire agreement, had to give up this claim as those rebellions cut any remaining power and supply to begin such an operation.
|
||||
|
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough; we couldn't find neither; we made up sorrows for ourselves; we couldn't be consoled; A Strange Orhan Veli |
||||
|
||||
|
Kapikulu
Arch Duke
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Berlin Online Status: Offline Posts: 1914 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Sep-2007 at 20:37 |
|||
Without Germany as its ally, Ottoman Empire was no longer able to go on with any war effort in terms of military supplies.
After Bulgaria capitulated after Vardar Offensive, Franco-British-Greek-Serbian mixed army was just on the borders on the Western side.
Despite the havoc in Caucasus had let the Ottoman forces gain some lands, it is just like Germany advancing in the Eastern front after Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. In other fronts, Ottoman forces were in retreat. After Megiddo Offensive, the so-called Battle of Armageddon, the Ottoman forces were defeated and Mustafa Kemal Pasha, the new commander of the forces in Syria, had to retreat them back to a new secure line in Taurus Mountains.
In Iraq, the advance was going more slowly. Most of Northern Iraq was still under Ottoman control, however, Ottomans were lacking any more power to provide manpower and supplies to their armies, and they were already outnumbered and outgunned by the Allied forces in Middle East.
|
||||
|
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough; we couldn't find neither; we made up sorrows for ourselves; we couldn't be consoled; A Strange Orhan Veli |
||||
|
||||
|
Kapikulu
Arch Duke
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Berlin Online Status: Offline Posts: 1914 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Sep-2007 at 20:43 |
|||
Not really.
The institution of Caliphate already lost its effectivity centuries ago, I must say after the destruction of Abbasid Empire, or maybe even after weakening of Abbasids.
In Egypt, it was in a symbolic status, and in Ottoman Empire, this institution has never been used at all, until the German Empire has established a political aim inside it in order to provoke all Muslim population in French and British Empires into revolt.
Therefore, this call only went to deaf ears.
|
||||
|
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough; we couldn't find neither; we made up sorrows for ourselves; we couldn't be consoled; A Strange Orhan Veli |
||||
|
||||
|
Post Reply
|
Page <123> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz
This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz
This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.
