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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Topic: Respectability... Posted: 01-Aug-2007 at 13:33 |
Yes, I know that I'm going to sound like a pompous prat for saying this, but why can't people of my generation (and older) just be a little bit more respectable? I mean, unneccesary swearing, emphasis on brawns rather than brains, the complete over sexuality of our society - it's a little repulsive. Don't get me wrong - I don't mind popular culture, and I'm not acting like a religious fundamentalist, all I'm saying is that my generation are just so damn rude all the time for no apparent reason. ...And the clothes - I mean, you can dress nice without looking like a tart - many people (mainly girls) of my age dress like they're sex crazy. Why can't there just be a little bit more decent respectability and not using "f**" in every sentence?
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Posted: 01-Aug-2007 at 15:07 |
Originally posted by Aster Thrax Eupator
unneccesary swearing, emphasis on brawns rather than brains, the complete over sexuality of our society - it's a little repulsive.........just so damn rude all the time for no apparent reason. ...And the clothes - I mean, you can dress nice without looking like a tart - many people (mainly girls) of my age dress like they're sex crazy. Why can't there just be a little bit more decent respectability and not using "f**" in every sentence? |
..sounds pretty much like the majority of the 'chav' culture that resides in my street...can't wait to move on....i want to throttle these people, and what frightens me, is that the longer i live in this place, i think one day i probably will murder someone!!!....
..what annoys me the most, is that is how the parents who live on my street behave towards their children, the constant use of foul language, the encouragement to be aggressive, the breeding of total and utter disrespect for other people and property...and so on and so on..sigh...but i guess i am a boring old fart/grumpy old man compared to these sub-humans...
Edited by Act of Oblivion - 01-Aug-2007 at 15:10
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 01-Aug-2007 at 15:58 |
No! That's the point - we are not! I remember when I was 8 - all I could care about was Lego and playing out with my friends. Now, 8 year olds play Grand Theft Auto, swear and listen to gangsta rap- what went wrong? I'm not being pompous, but look at the 1950s - things were so innocent (not international events! LOL!), people were generally respectable to one another and didn't dress like prostitutes - I mean, what went wrong? I get looked at by people of my own age for simply caring about education, intellectual matters and generally not swearing every sentence, and not dressing like a tramp. Why is it suddenly "uncool" to not hold open the door for people, be respectable to people and offer to help? I mean, why?
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 03:53 |
This does sound extremely arrogant, I know, but it really is a difference of intelligence and education. You have to realise that if you go to university, you have to be part of the smartest 5% of the population. And although education does not necessarily breeds manners, nor lack of education necessarily makes them dissapear, there is a big connection there.
One comfort, albeit relative: things were not better in the past. In fact they were worse, as less people had access to proper education. The only reason why it might seem to have been better is because of what remains of the past is left behind by the elite and middle classes, and not by the average worker.
Edited by Aelfgifu - 02-Aug-2007 at 03:54
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 04:59 |
Yes, but that doesn't give people the right to swear loudly in public for nop apparent reason
...Also, if it's 5% of the population, how come compartivley more than that go to uni?
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Dolphin
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 05:22 |
Some of the people I know in Uni aint too intelligent...
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Paul
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 07:08 |
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
You have to realise that if you go to university, you have to be part of the smartest 5% of the population. |
... in the estimation of the 5% of the population who go to uni.
Then you leave get real a job and discover that you may have been mislead and that top 5% in intelligence actually meanttop top 5% in mediocrity.
Originally posted by Aster Thrax Eupator
Yes, I know that I'm going to sound like a pompous prat for saying this, but why can't people of my generation (and older) just be a little bit more respectable? I mean, unneccesary swearing, emphasis on brawns rather than brains, the complete over sexuality of our society - it's a little repulsive. Don't get me wrong - I don't mind popular culture, and I'm not acting like a religious fundamentalist, all I'm saying is that my generation are just so damn rude all the time for no apparent reason. ...And the clothes - I mean, you can dress nice without looking like a tart - many people (mainly girls) of my age dress like they're sex crazy. Why can't there just be a little bit more decent respectability and not using "f**" in every sentence? |
My complaint about the younger generation is they are so bloody conformist. The first generation not to be worse than the previous. No rebelliousness, what they regard as wild is like having tea with Grandma to me.
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 07:14 |
I'm speaking about the popular culture of today - not what it looks like when compared to older ones. I find it so funny- If teenagers want to be individual, why do they all dress the same and submit so much to peer pressure?
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Maharbbal
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 19:17 |
It is quite funny what you are saying.
Actually you're vision of the 1950s is quite wrong, the bikers were as rude and violent as the gangsta are nowadays and just as fascinating for the youngsters of all classes.
The swearing thing is alright as long as you can escape from it at will, which is the case fot the upper class and out of reach for the poorest (economically and culturally).
Actually I'm ready to bet that sooner or later there will be a backlash: the rich and their imitators will dress smart, speak smart, etc while the brainwashed proletarians will be left in the mud.
That is exactly what is happening in Paris. Five years ago without baggy jeans and a baseball cap you were a nobody. Nowadays 15 years old wear ties in class
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omshanti
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 20:01 |
I do underestand Aster Thrax Eupator's feelings. There is a lot of aggression in the style/attitude which is being sold as the role model for the youth in the pop culture today.
Perhaps the violent and uneducated were always there, but what makes the difference is that now, their style has become the role model for the youth of the whole. I guess this means that now the underprivileged have the voice and the power to shape the whole society, which is not bad in itself, but I have to say that the effect is superficial and ugly.
Perhaps another reason for this phenomenon is that the age for maturity is getting higher and higher, which leaves many people who act like children and are not able to have any responsibility.
Another reason that I can think of is that the world is getting smaller and flatter every day, with which in my opinion, TV and computers have alot to do.
Any way. My point is that you can't and shouldn't control other people's behavior. You have to be able to let things be in order to focus on what is really important for you. Also you can use the actions of other people that you don't like as your own mirror or teacher that teaches you what is not right to do.
Edited by omshanti - 03-Aug-2007 at 02:11
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Mr. K.
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Posted: 03-Aug-2007 at 02:29 |
It's odd for me to look at things so optimistically, but all of them can't be that bad. Besides that, the younger generation will always be morally corrupt to the older one, and the older generation will be a bunch of moralizing old fogies to the younger one. It's written in The Big Book of Rules somewhere. Education doesn't necessarily make you nicer. That's more of an upbringing thing, and also a matter of how you conduct yourself. I suppose the divorce rates may have a lot to do with things, and then there's the education system's problems.
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 03-Aug-2007 at 05:03 |
Originally posted by Paul
You have to realise that if you go to university, you have to be part of the smartest 5% of the population. |
... in the estimation of the 5% of the population who go to uni.
Then you leave get real a job and discover that you may have been mislead and that top 5% in intelligence actually meanttop top 5% in mediocrity. |
No one ever claimed the top 5% was smart compared to you Paul.
Ah, the bonuses of an equal opportunity schooling system. Not only the rich average gets in, but the poor average too! Long live mediocreness.
Of course, the most important person for the functioning of any society is the swearing, sweating, tatooed garbage man. As long as he keeps working, he can swear as much as he wants! And darn do we need to keep the garbage men happy and working!
Edited by Aelfgifu - 03-Aug-2007 at 05:09
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Paul
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Posted: 03-Aug-2007 at 14:52 |
Personally I've always considered toilet cleaners to be the most noble people on planet Earth.
If the Prime Minister, Mother Theresa, Bill Gates and a toilet cleaner were drowning and I had only one place left in my raft.....
Edited by Paul - 03-Aug-2007 at 14:53
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 03-Aug-2007 at 16:42 |
It's just all that "Gangasta rap" and all the idolisation of all things rude and undignified. Aelfgifu's point is right in that there will always be people like that, but the sheer amount of them? Their filth coming onto television? It's unparalelled. I think that much of this has to tie in with Dolphin's thread about "the objectificiation of sexuality", which goes into greater details about some of the stuff that I've mentioned in this thread.
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 04:51 |
Originally posted by Paul
Personally I've always considered toilet cleaners to be the most noble people on planet Earth.
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I disagree. I live in a student house, so I know life can go on with a none too clean toilet. But watch the effects of a one week strike of garbagemen, and see the anarchy descent.
Edited by Aelfgifu - 04-Aug-2007 at 04:55
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hugoestr
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Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 11:43 |
Aster Thrax Eupator,
If you want to polite and dress nicely, do it. One of the nice things about today is that one can dress whatever way one wants to, and most people won't care. You won't the respect of those interested in gansta rap, but it sound like you don't seem too eager to win their approval, so who cares?
Also, you must remember that the lower classes always swear, no matter what age they were. And those who are violent will be violent no matter what kind of cloths they are wearing. After all, the mods from the 60s are probably one of the most respectable looking youth subcultures, yet they were pretty violent.
If anything, I would avoid idealizing the past. The versions of them which you get are highly sanitized, especially when you are young. My parents always complained about the "new" trend of drug use, yet when I became an adult, they told me of all of their druggie acquaintances. Adults always tend to exaggerate their sexual chastity and forget how lustful they were at age 12.
The 1950s were no fun, not in the U.S. anyway. Segregation was legal, and the states Part of their resisting was lynching people. So much for the gentle, innocent times.
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Penelope
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Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 20:51 |
Originally posted by Aster Thrax Eupator
It's just all that "Gangasta rap" and all the idolisation of all things rude and undignified. Aelfgifu's point is right in that there will always be people like that, but the sheer amount of them? Their filth coming onto television? It's unparalelled. I think that much of this has to tie in with Dolphin's thread about "the objectificiation of sexuality", which goes into greater details about some of the stuff that I've mentioned in this thread. |
It's funny you should say that, since so-called "gangsta rap" isnt even the most "listened to" genre at all in America.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 22:08 |
I do agree about not idealising the past. I personally find gangsta rap
distasteful, very sexist, and it has violent and criminal undertones.
But let's not forget that 50 years ago domestic violence was absolutely
shocking, except it was hushed up. I think that back then a lot more
went into keeping up appearances and suffering in silence. Sometimes
gritting your teeth is a good way of dealing with things, but often
problems needs to be voiced in order to work out how to solve them.
Today minorities and women are getting a much better deal than they
used to. Poverty is typically lower and people spend longer at school.
And also, back in the 50s and 60s quite a lot of worried parents were
stressing over Elvis' the Pelvis swaying hips. Each generation has its
share of moral shocks.
In sum, I don't think things are much worse. Censorship has relaxed and
people are more open about their problems when they used to be. This is
generally a good thing, though at times extreme elements make it into
our field of vision. So long as these extreme elements are seen to be
just that, we can accept that society as a whole still has an interest
in upholding personal respectability (although not being a slave to
other peoples' expectations and values).
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Cywr
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Posted: 07-Aug-2007 at 21:26 |
I find that people from the 'upper classes' are just as crude, bigoted and insensitive as anyone else, they just do it in expensive clothes and avoid 'bad' words, which apparently makes them more sophisticated.
As for uni and the top 5%, i doubt that has been the case for centuries, if ever. Most countries education systems have traditionaly favoured priviledge over intelligence.
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Paul
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Posted: 07-Aug-2007 at 21:48 |
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
I live in a student house, so I know life can go on with a none too clean toilet.
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I was talking about normal evolved human beings........ Not students.
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