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How long have you been living at home?

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  Quote Gazi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How long have you been living at home?
    Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 09:38
We Turks have lived in Anatolia for more than 900 years.
Freedom is the recognition of necessity.-Friedrich Engels
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 10:52
In fact, Turks lived in Anatolia for more times. Before the conquests of Seljuks, Some Turkic tribes, especially Oguz and Pechenek people immigrated to Anatolia, northern and western Caspian sea regions and Balkans. They became to settle about two hundred years before the war of Manzikert, 1071. They lived under Byzanthine rule. In the war of Manzikert, they were included in the Byzanthine army, and during the battle, they heard the enemies speaking in their language (Turkish), so they joined Seljuk army and fought with the Byzanthine army together.
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  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 01:48
we chinese have lived in china forever...
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 05:35
We Tatars have been living in Volga-Bulgaria for at least 1100 years.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 14:21

Turks dont have an exact home, our great great fathers have lived a nomadic life style for thousands of years. This also caused a lack of monuments, lack of a racial identity and a lack of an obvious alphabet, but this was their only choice to survive in the vast steppes...

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  Quote Kuu-ukko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2005 at 10:18

Oguzoglu, don't be too hard on your people's ancestry.

The proto-Turkic language (i.e., the language spoken by the ancestors of Turks, Turkmens, Azeris etc.) was thought to have been spoken in the Altaic plateu, near/in Mongolia, next to proto-Mongolic and proto-Tungusic, because although they are very similar in grammar, they have only had very intense trade relations.

The Gokturks were the first Turkic tribe to create a realm. They created their kingdom in 552, and were originated from the Ashina tribe which was to be native to todays Xiang Uigur. They used a script sometimes called the Orkhon runes, found in the Orkhon river valley in Mongolia. More information: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/orkhon.htm Variants of this are the "Siberian runes" and the Hungarian runes, which were used until the mid 1850's in some parts of Hungary. An exact comment from Wikipedia "Turkic people living in Central Asia developed various alphabets in early ages."

The Gokturks also had monuments, found in the Orkhon river valley. These monuments were written in the Orkhon script (the source of the knowledge regarding the script), and descibe the battles fought by the Gokturks in the mid 8th century. I'll give you a link about them: http://www.simaqianstudio.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t2 12.html 

And on the identity. Well, if they wouldn't have had a proud and noble picture of themselves, would they have conquered the lands they live in today: http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/didact/karten/turk/turk lm.htm ?Oguzoglu, you're too hard on yourself .

Thank you and goodbye.



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2005 at 12:33

Thank you Kuu-ko, but my purpose was not to be hard on both my ancestors and myself. I only told the turth, and I cant see any negative opinions in my post, regarding to my ancestry. I didnt mean that they didnt have any alphabet or civilization, I only meant that these were changable from time to time, according to their new homes. Our ancestors used five different alphabets as we know. First, the unidentified alphabet which is defined as similar to Vikings' and norsemen's, used by Xiong Nu (Huns). Then, the Gktrk Alphabet which was also similar to that. And then, the Uighur Alphabet which was derived from Sogdian alphabet of western Turkestan. After that, Turks used a modified Arabic script until the adaption of a modified Latin alphabet by Atatrk.

So I wasnt being hard to my ancestry, but even protecting them. They knew how to adapt themselves and their culture with the newer conditions they face, and that's rule #1 of nomadic civilization.

I also read lots of articles and a couple of books about the Orhun (Gktrk) scripts, and the similarities with the Hungarian and old norse scripts. These are all very amazing, and the more amazing thing is that even they were found by covincidences in central asia. So this is a very suspicious topic that there can even be lots of more ancient scripts from Turkic people, since they are all hidden and forgot. Also, the Gktrk language is very interesting. It is such a sophisticated alphabet that it cannot be derived and firstly used by Gktrks at those times. This alphabet surely has some ancient steppe origins from unknown past...

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  Quote Tiera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Apr-2005 at 06:14
Yeah, hard to define the birth of a "people" isn't it? Actually it is SO hard that every attempt seems a bit artificial. Let's take Finland for example.
Finland's earliest find which is possible to carbon date is the fishing net of Antrea (some 9000b.c.). It is, however, impossible to say who left it behind. This is true for ALL stone-age cultures.
Comparative linguistics suggest that Finnic separated into proto-Sami and proto-Baltic-Finnic at the latest around 1000b.c. Since archeological data show a continuum of finds up to this point (and beyond), it has been suggested that a Finnic language was spoken in modern Finland (+Fennoscandian peninsula) much earlier. The next significant change in archeological finds going back in time is the start of ceramics some 5000b.c. so it has been assumed that a Finno-Ugric language has been spoken in Finland from at least those times onward. Written Finnish, on the other hand, existis only from the 16th century onwards, standard modern Finnish only from 19th century onwards.
Again, a comparison to speakers of a Indo-European language. I hereby present the case of Norway. Comparative linguistics suggest that the proto-Indo-European language existed around 7-5000b.c. A proto-germanic language is thought to be accordingly younger (about 1000b.c.), proto-Norse is younger still and Bokmal and Nynorsk are very recent. The battle-axe culture (ca. 2500b.c.) has been associated with the arrival of Indo-European speakers to the North. However, the continuity theory applies to Indo-European speakers too.
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  Quote Gazi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Apr-2005 at 13:00
I read somewhere that during the dark ages a few Turkic tribes had migrated into Finland but I am not sure if its true.
Freedom is the recognition of necessity.-Friedrich Engels
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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Apr-2005 at 13:39
It's true
"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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  Quote Tiera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Apr-2005 at 15:19
And when exactly was this?
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