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Americas Epidemics

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Americas Epidemics
    Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 11:21
Yes, it is sad. In the Americas that affected mostly to the small ethnic groups. They were usually acultured and assimilated fast enough, and culture and languages were forgotten. The large groups, though, like some large Native groups in the United States and Canada, the Natives of Mexico, the Mayas, the Quechuas and Aymara of the Andes, the Tupi-Guaranies of Paraguay, the Mapuches in Chile and Argentina, and some others, managed to preserve theirs culture up to the present.
 
Most of them did it by getting modernized. Not long ago I saw in a handcraft sale in my country a Otavalo Native woman from Ecuador (people which sale Andes textiles all over South America) speaking his language at the cell phone! Microsoft is also sending a version of windows in Mapuche language!! That's survival, and I am sure theirs culture has a syncretic but ensured future.
 
One more thing to add. Recently, billingual Spanish native languages poetry and music, have started to be in fashion. That's oppening the mind of the "westerner" people of our region to the richness of the ancient cultures. I bet in the end those cultures not only will survive but help and enrich a lot more our own culture.
 
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Edited by pinguin - 21-Jul-2007 at 11:25
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  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 16:39
This is what wikipedia claims:
 
no one can garantee its factual accuracy, but it does claim that the indigenous population of America suffered a HUGE loss after the 1st century of contact with the Europeans due to diseases.
 
Estimates of the original pre-colombian population range from 8.4 million at the low end to 115 million at the high end.
But even if it was only 8.4 million, by the year 1600 there were only an estimated 2 million left, which meant a decimation of 75%!
If the high estimates had been true, this would qualify as the deadliest holocaust in human history.
 
It's true that the Amerindian population in Mexico and Peru are huge, but most of them only "rebounded" after the 20th century after dipping to very low figures.
I remember reading somewhere that the survivors today descend from a very narrow gene pool.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 17:02
And estimation I have say 16 millions. Which is not a small number at all for the time. 2 millions is too few, I believe. I bet Mexico alone had that number a century afterwars.
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 18:44
Originally posted by calvo

It's true that the Amerindian population in Mexico and Peru are huge, but most of them only "rebounded" after the 20th century after dipping to very low figures.


No, not really. The native populations in those areas have always been very large compared to North America, all through the colonial period, all through the 19th and 20th centuries.

Heck, the Yucatan Maya weren't even brought under control until the early 1800s and the Spanish never settled the area very extensively at all due to frequent uprisings.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 22:04
Actually, that's quite interesting. The densities of people in the Americas varied quite a lot in contact. It was very high in Mexico and the Andes. Relative high in Central Chile and Argentina. Amazingly low in Patagonia, and relatively low in the Caribbean, North America and the Amazons.
 
Today, the distributions of Amerindians follow the same pattern. The most Amerindian countries of the Americas still are Mexico, Guatemala, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia and Paraguay.
 
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 22:46
Originally posted by calvo

This is what wikipedia claims:


no one can garantee its factual accuracy


No but I can guarantee its factual inaccuracy.

It claims: "Before the European arrival, the Americas had been isolated from the Eurasian-African landmass. "

This is factually untrue - Inuit cultures like the Yupik straddled the Bering Strait and interacted with both Siberian and West Coast Amerind populations, who in turn interacted with the continuum of cultures in their respective continents.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 23:33

Well, it is true. The Inuits were not isolated from the Eurasian masses, having contact with Eastern Siberia and also with Europe (Greenland). However, below the Inuits in the map, and with the except of the few norse posts in Newfoundland (and perhaps other places in North America), all the rest of people of the Americas were isolated for more than 20.000 years of the outside world.

That converts the Americas a single largest "experimental laboratory" to understand the parallel development of humankind. Comparing the development of the Americas with the old world we can grasp the mechanism of social evolution. That's what amazes me the most of the study of the Americas.
 
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Edited by pinguin - 21-Jul-2007 at 23:34
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 02:01
Originally posted by pinguin

Well, it is true. The Inuits were not isolated from the Eurasian masses, having contact with Eastern Siberia and also with Europe (Greenland). However, below the Inuits in the map, and with the except of the few norse posts in Newfoundland (and perhaps other places in North America), all the rest of people of the Americas were isolated for more than 20.000 years of the outside world.

 
Ah! But they weren't. They were in contact with the Inuit across the entire treeline, from Alaska to Labrador. And the Inuit were in contact with the Yuit/Yupik, who in turn were in contact with the Chukchi, who in turn were in contact with the Evenki and Yakuts. The Evenki and Yakuts were Turkic groups who were neighbours to Mongols and spoke a related Altaic language ... and of course, the Mongols were in contact with numerous groups throughout East Asia.
 
It's probably too tenuous a connection for any technological diffusion, chiefly owing to the fact that the Yupik wouldn't have any particular use for Asian technology due to their unique environment; so no technology would be able to pass the Bering Strait barrier by diffusion. But it certainly is enough for epidemics to pass through.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 09:25

Well, I agree that ephidemics could be transmitted. In the matter of diffusion I was amazed on the similarities of the totem poles of the Amerindians of the Seattle region and the Ainus in Japan. It just doesn't seem a coincidence.

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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 23:23
Interesting. The Ainu in Japan have been proven as an Indo-European group that worshipped nature. Nobody has any idea of how they got there. I say they were a group for within living memory all of their tribe has intermarried with Japanese men. Having an Ainu wife is a status symbol in modern Japan.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 23:28
Ainus are actually closer to australoids than to caucasoids. In fact, the "australoids" Amerindians found in the Americas are supposed by some to be Ainus.
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2007 at 00:59
Good point pinquin, however the ancient inhabitants of Australia are Dravidian, they originally came from India and I did say Indo-European. Where they make the lines here I don't know but that is the way it is.
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