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Topic ClosedWerer the Egyptians white or black?
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Poll Question: well?
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medenaywe View Drop Down
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Posts: 17084 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Werer the Egyptians white or black?
    Posted: 29-Mar-2011 at 12:28
Agree with you people,black and white those days were different than we consider today!I read somewhere that average temperatures in Egypt 2000 years before were 7 degrees higher!?!Baal and Arab think about  this again:Why did ancients would have used brown/red color instead of black!If you have Arabic ancestors than we are relatives!!!I am so called "white" but looking for my roots have founded that Alexander's conquest was  literary  liberation of Red/Brown people lands!?!Regards.
P.S. Yes,most of the people expect UFO's people to come and take them home!Smile
 
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Posts: 869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2011 at 13:08
World's temperatures have ever been increasing so I seriously doubt that Egypt was 7C hotter 2000 years ago. But yeah it does make perfect sense when you realise that Ancient Egypt was a mixture of African and Middle-Eastern ethnicities. What do you mean by Alxander liberating red/brown people? 
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Posts: 17084 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2011 at 13:30
Hegemony was done,Danayan's lands would had been liberated!Danayans lived in Upper Egypt also.I suppose that this was their homeland.They lived in Macedon and all around Mediterranean sea.Translating old script from stone,i have found that only in middle text,in every of 32 rows Danayans were written!"Greek" text never mentioned them even!
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Posts: 354 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2011 at 18:26
Most of them were African and some of them were Asian.  The Levant was once part of the Egyptian empire.
 
 
Ancient Egyptians were heavily influenced by the Aryans from West Asia. Aryan ancestors of the Kurds, like Kassites and Mitanni, had many exchanges and political marriages with the Egyptian Empire. But also other West Asian people like Hittites, Chaldeans and Elamites.
 
A Pharao statue has also been found near Dohuk in South Kurdistan at an ancient Mitanni (ARYAN) site of 2000 BCE.
 
 
 


Edited by MediaWarLord - 29-Mar-2011 at 20:56
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Posts: 17084 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2011 at 16:15
In text Upper Egypt was land close to sea.One of the titles of pharaoh was,ruler from bird's(Misir?)Uppers, ruler of obelisk from Upper Egypt....Text did not speak about land known today as Upper Egypt,land of Nubians at all.
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Posts: 170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2011 at 07:27
The poll question is kinda off if you ask me..."white" people are considered to be from Europe so how could have the Egyptians been "white"...unless we are labeling everyone who is not black as "white"
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Posts: 170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2011 at 07:31
Just like many people were saying the orginal Egyptian culture and tradition came from Nubia...Its amazing how very little people pay attention to it. Nubia is Older than Egypt...."We came from the beginning of the Nile where God Hapi dwells, at the foothills of The Mountains of the Moon." - Papyrus of Hunifer (Egyptian Scribe)
That translate's into Southern African region near Chad and Kenya

Edited by Fula - 19-Dec-2011 at 07:33
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Posts: 170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2011 at 07:44
Originally posted by Arab

Precisely... I really never understood what point these afro-centrists are trying to make. Even if the ancient Egyptians were black, you are not an ancient Egyptian! Somehow it makes them feel better to think that they came from an advanced ancient civilization. Why can't they accept themselves for who they are?
 
 
Well it actually goes both ways...Many Eurocentrist like to claim Greece and Rome when they are likely descendants of Nothern Germanic Tribes. Greece's and Romans look distinctly different from...say a French or English person. In the end there is some connection for Afro-centrist and Euro-Centrist for there claim
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Posts: 6 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2012 at 23:53
Actually, Eurocentrics are the ones who steal Africa's history. The Africans are just trying to take it back.

Todays Egyptian population is not the same as the Anicent Egyptians, mostly due to the many invasions that occured starting with the Persians. The people of Anicent Egypt migrated from the Sahara, which undergo a change from a wet period to a dry one, creating the Sahara Desert today which is was not livable. Only way for Ancient Egyptians to be white is if there were an indigenous white tribes, which of course there wasn't. These people were black Africans through and through. The Egyptians were a tropically adapted people, same as all the other Africans, and their body porportions match with other Africans. 

The peoples of ancient Egypt, in the aforementioned tropical and semi-tropical/arid tropic zones, show clear limb proportion characteristics of tropically adapted people, and MORE closely resemble other tropically adapted Africans on the continent, than Europeans or Middle Easterners. 
(Raxter and Ruff 2008, Zakrewski 2003, 2007; Holliday et al, 2003, Kemp, 2005)

European/Asiatic cold climate or light skin inspiration was unneeded by the tropically adapted Africans of ancient Egypt. They peopled the Nile Valley from the Sahara and the Sudan, and ancient Egypt is part of a tropical African lineage. Indigenous development sprang from a long tradition going back deep into the Sahara and the Sudan. 
(Lovell, 1999; Lefkowitz, 1993, 1996; Keita 1993, Irish 2006)

The red and black paint used to depict the Ancient Egyptians does not represent black and mixed/tan whites. It merely represents the variety of skin tones in Africa. In many tribes in Africa, light skin Africans are commonly called "red." Black Africans range from near black to high yellow. In fact, many people see Ancient Egypt as a Pan African civilization, a civilization that contained many tribes of todays Africans. It was not a mixed civilization either, since Ancient Egypt was well established before they came in contact with Asiatics and white Mediterraneans. It still remain largely black African. 

 
Not to mention that the people outside of Africa who made contact with the Egyptians, such as the Greeks and the Romans, all describe Egyptians as black people.

Quotes from Herodotus (commonly known as the father of History): "...the Colchidans are Egyptians by race....the Colchidans were descended from soliders of Sesostris (Senusret, an Egyptian Pharoah). I had conjectured as much myself from two pointers, firstly because they have black skins and kinky hair.... and secondly and more reliably for the reason that alone among mankind the Egyptians and the Ethiopians have practised circumcision since time immemorial... As between the Egyptians themselves and the Ethiopians I could not say which taught the other the practise for among them it is quote clearly a custom of great antiquity."

Quotes for Aristotle (commonly known as Greece's greatest philosopher):"...those who are too black are cowards, like for instance the Egyptians and Ethiopians. But those who are excessively white are also cowards as we can see from the example of women, the complexion of courage lies between the two."

Quote from Lucian (greek writer) when describing an Egyptian:"This boy is not merely black; he has thick lips and his legs are too thin..."

Quote from Aeschylus (when describing the Egyptians): "I can see the crew with their black limbs and white tunics."

Overall, Ancient Egypt was black, through and through.




Edited by Afrohistory - 06-Jan-2012 at 23:56
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Posts: 1962 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2012 at 09:00

Originally posted by Afrohistory

Overall, Ancient Egypt was black, through and through.
Thanks for the historical accounts. 
 
I think we need to consider that the terms "black"  and "white" have changed over the centuries. For example:  Are the terms being used to describe the Caucasoid and African races?  Or are they being used to describe people with darker or lighter complections?   Consider that Ethiopians and Somalis are viewed as "black" by complection, but are racially caucasoids 
 
Then another complication: would the Nubians, either ancient or modern, describe themselves as "Black" meaning racially African?  Or would they view themsleves as Caucasoids with a darker complection and some african features? Or perhaps self identify as racially mixed?
 
Today, the term "black" usually implies somebody who is racially african. Likewise, "white" implies a European.  Arabs, Berbers are racially caucasoid and can be described as either "black" or "white" by complection.  What about Nubians?  They are the hardest group to describe and also had a big influence on ancient Egypt.
  
Even more complications,  in the past, Europeans used the term "black" to describe both Africans and caucasoids with relatively darker complections.  Some anglos saxons described Sicillians and other southern Italians as "black".  Today, these people are "white" 
 
In the end, I think the Egyptians were..... well Egyptians.  They were darker complected caucasoids, with a Nubian (african) influence, especially in lower Egypt.  The Egyptians, however, would not be "white" by current definition ("white" being used to describe Europeans and on occasion, light complected Lebanese etc.)   


Edited by Cryptic - 07-Jan-2012 at 10:08
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Posts: 6084 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2012 at 09:10
The ancient term Ethiopians was one to denotes people with black faces, and my guess is that had the Egyptians as a whole been considered to be people with black faces then somewhere the term Ethiopians would have been used for them too.
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Posts: 170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2012 at 10:48
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by Afrohistory

Overall, Ancient Egypt was black, through and through.
Thanks for the historical accounts. 
 
I think we need to consider that the terms "black"  and "white" have changed over the centuries. For example:  Are the terms being used to describe the Caucasoid and African races?  Or are they being used to describe people with darker or lighter complections?   Consider that Ethiopians and Somalis are viewed as "black" by complection, but are racially caucasoids 
 
Then another complication: would the Nubians, either ancient or modern, describe themselves as "Black" meaning racially African?  Or would they view themsleves as Caucasoids with a darker complection and some african features? Or perhaps self identify as racially mixed?
 
Today, the term "black" usually implies somebody who is racially african. Likewise, "white" implies a European.  Arabs, Berbers are racially caucasoid and can be described as either "black" or "white" by complection.  What about Nubians?  They are the hardest group to describe and also had a big influence on ancient Egypt.
  
Even more complications,  in the past, Europeans used the term "black" to describe both Africans and caucasoids with relatively darker complections.  Some anglos saxons described Sicillians and other southern Italians as "black".  Today, these people are "white" 
 
In the end, I think the Egyptians were..... well Egyptians.  They were darker complected caucasoids, with a Nubian (african) influence, especially in lower Egypt.  The Egyptians, however, would not be "white" by current definition ("white" being used to describe Europeans and on occasion, light complected Lebanese etc.)   


Great comments...but I disagree on the Ethiopians and Somalians being caucasoid. Race is defined by bone structure. Native "negroid" African people have longer limbs than every other race and short curled hair dissipates heat faster. So i would think Ethiopians and Somalians are both "negroid" types
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Posts: 211 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2012 at 12:53
So before I put my 2 cents in I'd just like to ask, why are we even asking the question in the first place? I'll sit back and listen to whateveryone has to say. Although I do have my opinions on the issue, I am here not only to share but to learn. So even if someone else's opinion is very different from my own, I consider that a type of learning as well. So once again, Why are we even asking the question of what race the Egyptians were in the first place? You personal opinions please.
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Posts: 17084 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2012 at 13:03
They have been erased from history books and their history was stolen&pasted in history books of other's under different name.The Victorious One's!
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Posts: 170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2012 at 13:53
Originally posted by Rakasnumberone

So before I put my 2 cents in I'd just like to ask, why are we even asking the question in the first place? I'll sit back and listen to whateveryone has to say. Although I do have my opinions on the issue, I am here not only to share but to learn. So even if someone else's opinion is very different from my own, I consider that a type of learning as well. So once again, Why are we even asking the question of what race the Egyptians were in the first place? You personal opinions please.


IMO...The question has been asked throughout history because the demonization of African people (savages, heathens, etc) has been quite successful and the idea of the Ancient Egyptian culture and civilization possibly coming from native black Africans is extremely inconvenient and controversial. Even offensive to some
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Posts: 6084 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2012 at 14:33
Originally posted by Fula

Originally posted by Rakasnumberone

So before I put my 2 cents in I'd just like to ask, why are we even asking the question in the first place? I'll sit back and listen to whateveryone has to say. Although I do have my opinions on the issue, I am here not only to share but to learn. So even if someone else's opinion is very different from my own, I consider that a type of learning as well. So once again, Why are we even asking the question of what race the Egyptians were in the first place? You personal opinions please.


IMO...The question has been asked throughout history because the demonization of African people (savages, heathens, etc) has been quite successful and the idea of the Ancient Egyptian culture and civilization possibly coming from native black Africans is extremely inconvenient and controversial. Even offensive to some
I find that each side of the argument seems to be extremely inconvenient and controversial to the other side. I wish those who want to overturn the establish argument all the luck in the world in finding enough evidence to do so.Shift+R improves the quality of this image. Shift+A improves the quality of all images on this page.   
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Yes, but what I want to know is your personal opinion o why this question is being asked in the first place. For example, what is your personal interest in the question?
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Posts: 211 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2012 at 16:48
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Originally posted by Fula

Originally posted by Rakasnumberone

So before I put my 2 cents in I'd just like to ask, why are we even asking the question in the first place? I'll sit back and listen to whateveryone has to say. Although I do have my opinions on the issue, I am here not only to share but to learn. So even if someone else's opinion is very different from my own, I consider that a type of learning as well. So once again, Why are we even asking the question of what race the Egyptians were in the first place? You personal opinions please.


IMO...The question has been asked throughout history because the demonization of African people (savages, heathens, etc) has been quite successful and the idea of the Ancient Egyptian culture and civilization possibly coming from native black Africans is extremely inconvenient and controversial. Even offensive to some
I find that each side of the argument seems to be extremely inconvenient and controversial to the other side. I wish those who want to overturn the establish argument all the luck in the world in finding enough evidence to do so.Shift+R improves the quality of this image. Shift+A improves the quality of all images on this page.   

Yes, but what I want to know is your personal opinion o why this question is being asked in the first place. For example, what is your personal interest in the question?
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Posts: 6084 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2012 at 16:53
Originally posted by Rakasnumberone

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Originally posted by Fula

Originally posted by Rakasnumberone

So before I put my 2 cents in I'd just like to ask, why are we even asking the question in the first place? I'll sit back and listen to whateveryone has to say. Although I do have my opinions on the issue, I am here not only to share but to learn. So even if someone else's opinion is very different from my own, I consider that a type of learning as well. So once again, Why are we even asking the question of what race the Egyptians were in the first place? You personal opinions please.


IMO...The question has been asked throughout history because the demonization of African people (savages, heathens, etc) has been quite successful and the idea of the Ancient Egyptian culture and civilization possibly coming from native black Africans is extremely inconvenient and controversial. Even offensive to some
I find that each side of the argument seems to be extremely inconvenient and controversial to the other side. I wish those who want to overturn the establish argument all the luck in the world in finding enough evidence to do so.Shift+R improves the quality of this image. Shift+A improves the quality of all images on this page.   

Yes, but what I want to know is your personal opinion o why this question is being asked in the first place. For example, what is your personal interest in the question?
Oh, I'm sorry,  Rakasnumberone, my opinion at this time is of a mixed society of one sort or another in terms of ethnicity.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Posts: 6 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2012 at 17:59
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by Afrohistory

Overall, Ancient Egypt was black, through and through.
Thanks for the historical accounts. 
 
I think we need to consider that the terms "black"  and "white" have changed over the centuries. For example:  Are the terms being used to describe the Caucasoid and African races?  Or are they being used to describe people with darker or lighter complections?   Consider that Ethiopians and Somalis are viewed as "black" by complection, but are racially caucasoids 
 
Then another complication: would the Nubians, either ancient or modern, describe themselves as "Black" meaning racially African?  Or would they view themsleves as Caucasoids with a darker complection and some african features? Or perhaps self identify as racially mixed?
 
Today, the term "black" usually implies somebody who is racially african. Likewise, "white" implies a European.  Arabs, Berbers are racially caucasoid and can be described as either "black" or "white" by complection.  What about Nubians?  They are the hardest group to describe and also had a big influence on ancient Egypt.
  
Even more complications,  in the past, Europeans used the term "black" to describe both Africans and caucasoids with relatively darker complections.  Some anglos saxons described Sicillians and other southern Italians as "black".  Today, these people are "white" 
 
In the end, I think the Egyptians were..... well Egyptians.  They were darker complected caucasoids, with a Nubian (african) influence, especially in lower Egypt.  The Egyptians, however, would not be "white" by current definition ("white" being used to describe Europeans and on occasion, light complected Lebanese etc.)   
 
Ethiopians aren't Caucausoids. Due to their features, many people believed that Ethiopians were "white" first and darken when they migrated into Africa. This theory has been long debunk. It is due to the environment of the African continent that gave them the features that they have. They are as African as West Africans are African. Africans are the most diverse when it comes to phenotype due to how long they have been on this planet, meaning being the first people, and the different climates in Africa. Which is why you got the San people in the south who are very light skin, have slanted eyes, and also the most tightest hair. Then you have the West Africans who are more darker than the San, and many have tightly curly hair, though it varies. Then you have East Africans who can have tight to loose hair, which a variety of skin textures. North Africa has the most admixture with foreign people, but there are still many black tribes today. In Sudan, you can find the darkest Africans. It is all part of the variety of Africa.
 
Egyptians weren't dark skin caucausoids. They were Africans and were the same as Nubians. They migrated from the Sahara, not from the Mediterrean which makes them African. The Ancient Egyptians called themselves Kam-au or KM(T) for short, which meant Black People or Black God people. Their country was called Kemet which means land of the Black people and Black land. They saw themselves as black people.
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