Creation of Israel.

 

this is not the case here as you describe it , everything got twisted around in the posts here.

 

the natives are the Jews living there continously for 4000 years, speaking the original Hebrew and practice the original religion and traditions.

 

the new elements are the Palestinians , with their new and Jewish based religion.

not to mention the pseudojudaism religion aka Christianiy .

 

already in 1920 some 30% of the pop. within the 1948 borders were Jews many lived there for centuries.

 

already in 1945 more than 50 % of the pop. within the 1948 borders were Jews. 

 

again and again a proposal of two states solution came up, sharing the land.

and was rejected with violance by the Arab side.

 

some of them probably have Jewish ancestory, most not, as immigration of Arab existed all the time from around the ME .

and yes even the european jews by DNA studies has Canaanites genes. and what about the local ancient Jewish communities? the ME Jewish communities?

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Hebrew for example died out as a spoken language and was only recently revived.

 

Hebrew is used nonstop by the Jews  for the past 3500 years (wether written or spoken),

the archeaological finds are in Hebrew and Jewish , and not Arabic/Islamic. so this is not the case as in America/Australia of European colonialism.

 

the land is called Israel for the past 3500 years ,"Palestine" is a newer term. how can you call the 3000 years natives "palestinians" ,this is Inventing pseudo-historical theories and only recently.

 

individuals can't claim for the right of self determination, even after living there for centuries.

by this logic most of the planet should be  Jewish state.

 

 

The last time Jews lived in Palestine in large numbers was by the time of the Arab conquest. At that time jews in Palestine were divided into two large groups, the Samaritans were by far the largest and ordinary jews who lived mainly in Jerusalem and the big cities. The countryside was almost empty of jews. Only Arabs and Aramaics lived there in addition to some greeks. After they were massacred by the Byzantines for their alliance with the Persians they fled all over the Byzantine empire or went to Iraq. Jerusalem was empty of jews when Arabs took the city. However they returned after and settled mainly in Ramla and Lud but they were always in the minority. By the time of the crusades most of the Samaritans have become muslims, there is no record of Arab settlement in what is now called "Judean hills" area until the 16th century when Christian bedouins settled in the Area around Ramallah. Jews simply disappeared except for tiny minorities here and there that were wiped out by the crusaders. Since then all the Mameluke and Ottoman records show that there were simply no Jews, except for pilgrims, until the 1880s when jewish migration began. These people, almost all of them were Russians, were taken by the Turks for pure humanitarian reasons. The overwhelming majority of Iraeli jews today can't go further than three or four generations on this land while the opposite can be said about the Palestinians some of whom are known to have been on this land for at least two mellenia, most of the Negev bedouins are from this catagory, or even beyond, Samaritans and Chritians.

 

AL-Jassas

 

rubbish

 

my family is 400 years old Jewish from Jaffa.

 

ancient Jewish communities pre 19th cen.  existed also in Gaza, Jerusalem, Hebron Zefat Tiberious etc...

 

 

]

 

 

 

 

 

You should really read some of Al Jassas' posts, they have been rather informative for people who don't know what and how the population shifted. There were some that were welcomed as immigrants, then through special favor and some unusually dishonest and at times aggressive tactics the population grew. I.E. kicking off people from their own lands - not letting them back after the War - etc... That is not a proper demographic shift. That is called ethnic cleansing.

 

4000 Years? Really, most studies put it at around 1000-750BC...

 

I agree with what SearchandDestroy said on that point.

 

Someone else asked what the British would do if some other people came into their land as immigrants and demanded tp take the whole place over. Historically, we know the answer: the British ended up clinging on to the western periphery and the 'immigrants' took the rest, including renaming the country, until they got taken over by a different group of 'immigrants'.

 

That's history for you. In then end the claim of some modern people to have been the 'original' inhabitants is simply not sustainable. Even the Jewish scriptures say the Jews weren't the first inhabitants: in the meantime the country has been overrun by all sorts of other people, but there's probably still a lot of genetic inheritance from the original Canaanites, whoever they were, on both sides.

 

Arguing on those sorts of grounds is essentially hogwash.

 

Just as hogwash in fact as going by susceptible world public opinion which sixty years ago was overwhelmingly in the Israeli side, and is now switched to the 'Palestinian' one, essentially because the underdog always gets the best press.

 

the Samaritans counts today some 600 individuals , they live in Israel fully integrated into the Israeli society  ,and by hige rates of marriage to other Jews in Israel ,are vanishing nowdays.

 

rubbish

 

bow down infront of the oldest preserved civilization on planet earth and the most influantial on the basics of other ones.