Pro and cons of families

And if the people in other countries don't want gay "marriage" or out of wedlock mothers, then what are you going to do? Invade?

How about "mind your own business"! For both sides. I don't think Pakistan should ever consider legalising homosexality, never mind allowing gay "marriage". However, I have no right to oppose Canada or Holland or Spain's decision to do so, beyond a comment that I think its wrong.

Originally posted by ataman   Sparten, you can thank your God that you are not in EU. Poland is not so lucky. We have to hear about violation of homosexual rights in Poland only because the prime minister of Polish government is brave enough and says that homosexuality isn't normal.

The European Union seems to disagree. Of course Poland is allowed to have its own opinions on homosexuality, but if they don't agree with the EU (and homosexuality is far from the only case where that is true) it should never have joined in the first place.

of Polish government is brave enough and says that homosexuality isn't normal.

Insulting minorities, very brave indeed!

I think acceptance of gays as both human and normal can and should be done by every government, no matter what or how. Not to do so is a violation of human rights. Religion has nothing to do with it, governments should be secular. People who are religious have every right not to engage in homosexual relationships when their religion forbids it. Just as every person has the right not to drink alcohol or eat cow when religion demands it. But you can no more forbid others to have gay relationships as you can forbid others to drink or eat cow. Any government that does do so should be considered as opressive.

Ah yes, my mistake. Of course it is none of our business whan people on the other side of the world suffer. After all, as long as we live in wealth and luxury, there is really no reason to care about whether other people are tortured and killed for being as they are, or having an opinion of their own.

Originally posted by Mixcoatl Originally posted by ataman   Sparten, you can thank your God that you are not in EU. Poland is not so lucky. We have to hear about violation of homosexual rights in Poland only because the prime minister of Polish government is brave enough and says that homosexuality isn't normal. The European Union seems to disagree. Of course Poland is allowed to have its own opinions on homosexuality, but if they don't agree with the EU (and homosexuality is far from the only case where that is true) it should never have joined in the first place.

Originally posted by elenos An entirely gay world only would last for a generation!

Edited by ataman - 27-Jun-2007 at 05:33

Aelfgifu, may I ask you something? Can you tell me, if your country has legalised incest and zoophilia?

Originally posted by elenos Did the Polish Prime Minister say that?

lol how did we get here?

I guess there are several questions here.

First ataman is out of his mind. The EU never tried to force Poland to legalize gay marriage. Neither it is force Portugal and Ireland to legalize abortion. What it may have done is to comment on the respect of the human rights to which the gays are entitled. I mean if an homosexual's civil and social rights are denied because he is gay, it is EU's business to defend him not as a gay man but as a human.

Second there is nothing in common between homosexuality in the one hand and incest and pedophilia on the other as the former involves two adults able to make choices for themselves, while the latter involves a child. If one of you don't see a difference here, I suggest he goes straight to the medic. For that matter aborigenes don't indulge into homosexual incest and pedophilia because their are gay but because they are drunk and unemployed.

Third, Pinguin consider this an official warning. First because you can not insult such a large population calling them a mistake, second because your comment is idiotic in two respect 1) have you ever seen a government favouring sodomy 2) homosexuality is normal and evolutionary positive (if you want I'll explain it later).

Thirdly, the West should indeed shut up because homosexual rights are under threat in Pakistan or wherever else. But it should surely voice up when the most basic human rights of the homosexuals are under attack (cf Egypt's 80 death sentences)

Fourth to go back to the original topic, it is likely that the traditional family is not only an ideological fabric but also a truly positive system favouring more and better educated kids.
The governments here face a major problem: on the one hand they are not allowed and shouldn't be to force a certain form of family upon people, specially because  in many cases divorce can have a strongly positive effect on the children, on the other hand diminishing the number of divorces would be statistically good for the individuals and for the whole country. How can we solve this paradox?