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QueenCleopatra View Drop Down
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Posts: 292 		  Quote QueenCleopatra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Conspiracies in history
    Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 17:11
Recently I was watching Conspiracy Day on discovery and I must it was all very intriguing.
 
I think everyone loves a good conspiracy. We all love that little tingle of nerves you get when reads or hear the.
 
Heres a list of just some of the thousands out there.
 
 
Before you say no I am not a Conspiracy nut!LOL
 
I just find some of these theories very interesting and enjoy reading about them.
 
I thought it would make for an interesting discussion.
 
Others not on that list include;
 
The Malcom X Murder
 
The Chappaquidick Incident
 
The Death of Robert Maxwell
 
September the 11th
 
The Lindbergh Baby Kidnap
 
The Sinking of the Lusitania
 
The 'death' of Hitler
 
The Death of Gregori Rasputin
 
I could go on and on.
 
So what are your favourites? Which ones are just rubbish? Have you any of your own?
 
 
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Posts: 658 		  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 17:28

I just love Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum"' sadistic deconstruction and posterior rebuild of History based on conspiracy theories. LOL
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zeno View Drop Down
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Posts: 85 		  Quote zeno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 18:23
Originally posted by Frederick Roger

I just love Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum"' sadistic deconstruction and posterior rebuild of History based on conspiracy theories. LOL

 
i heard about this guy, thanks for putting me on to him
 
Foucault's Pendulum sounds like a heavy read though. would you recommend it?
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Posts: 124 		  Quote aslanlar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 18:44
What was the conspiracy over Rasputins death?
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 22:33
Originally posted by Frederick Roger

I just love Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum"' sadistic deconstruction and posterior rebuild of History based on conspiracy theories. LOL

 
I think, that the main ides of "Foucault's Pendulum" is that all the conspiracy thinking theory is fake. We can only make it real by believing in it. But there is no real content in it anyway.
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Frederick Roger View Drop Down
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Posts: 658 		  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 05:24
Originally posted by Sarmat12

Originally posted by Frederick Roger

I just love Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum"' sadistic deconstruction and posterior rebuild of History based on conspiracy theories. LOL

 
I think, that the main ides of "Foucault's Pendulum" is that all the conspiracy thinking theory is fake. We can only make it real by believing in it. But there is no real content in it anyway.
 
Exactly. The book is an exercise on irony, pointing to the dangers of believing too much in conspiracy theories.
 
Heavy reading... What do you consider heavy reading? To me heavy reading is "Ulysses", "Foucault's Pendulum" being a stroll in the park (on a stormy day) comparing to that. 
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 07:51
 
Originally posted by aslanlar

What was the conspiracy over Rasputins death?
Rasputin's murder was undoubtedly the result of a conspiracy, led by Prince Felix Youssoupov and the Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovitch. The conspirators were proud of it afterwards.
 
There are of course plenty of real conspiracies in history: otherwise conspiracy would hardly be a crime. You don't criminalise things that don't happen.
 
There is a threshold however where conspiracy theories cross over into nonsense and that is hard to draw. A possible line is to dismiss any conspiracy theory that can explain everything about an incident, parallel to the way one dismisses scientific hypotheses that can explain any possible outcome to an experiment.
 
As an instance, consider 9/11. This was undoubtedly and unchallengeably the work of a conspiracy: it cannot have been a 'lone gunman' who brought down all four planes, and it can't have been four lone gunmen one per plane who purely coincidentally happened to choose that date and time. It also was undoubtedly planned in secret, to give the other requirement for a conspiracy.
 
No-one has ever suggested, as far as I know, that it wasn't a conspiracy. The only question is who was conspiring and how did they go about it.
 
Many of the answers that have been suggested to that have been completely outr, and indeed nonsensical. But the ones that aren't are still 'conspiracy theories'.
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 20-Jun-2007 at 07:57
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Posts: 3387 		  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 08:24
Originally posted by Frederick Roger

Originally posted by Sarmat12

Originally posted by Frederick Roger

I just love Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum"' sadistic deconstruction and posterior rebuild of History based on conspiracy theories. LOL

 
I think, that the main ides of "Foucault's Pendulum" is that all the conspiracy thinking theory is fake. We can only make it real by believing in it. But there is no real content in it anyway.
 
Exactly. The book is an exercise on irony, pointing to the dangers of believing too much in conspiracy theories.
 
Heavy reading... What do you consider heavy reading? To me heavy reading is "Ulysses", "Foucault's Pendulum" being a stroll in the park (on a stormy day) comparing to that. 
 
Well, some strolls you take! Respect for that...LOL I found it quite a heavy read (I have not even tried Ulysses yet, it is still on the shelf) but it is most denfenately worth the effort. With the added bonus of feeling you have really achieved something by managing to finish it...Wink
 
 
I don't really believe in these fairy tale conspiracies (altough I do believe in real ones of course, like gcle mentioned). My favorite opinion on consipracy theories ever is (don't remember who said it) 'This is a government that can't even keep its own sex-scandals and embezzlements a secret, and they (conspiracy theorists) expect it to have kept area 51 hidden for around 40 years?'

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Posts: 85 		  Quote zeno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 08:52
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

Originally posted by Frederick Roger

Originally posted by Sarmat12

Originally posted by Frederick Roger

I just love Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum"' sadistic deconstruction and posterior rebuild of History based on conspiracy theories. LOL

 
I think, that the main ides of "Foucault's Pendulum" is that all the conspiracy thinking theory is fake. We can only make it real by believing in it. But there is no real content in it anyway.
 
Exactly. The book is an exercise on irony, pointing to the dangers of believing too much in conspiracy theories.
 
Heavy reading... What do you consider heavy reading? To me heavy reading is "Ulysses", "Foucault's Pendulum" being a stroll in the park (on a stormy day) comparing to that. 
 
Well, some strolls you take! Respect for that...LOL I found it quite a heavy read (I have not even tried Ulysses yet, it is still on the shelf) but it is most denfenately worth the effort. With the added bonus of feeling you have really achieved something by managing to finish it...Wink
 
i meant does it suffer from being translated, is it very literary etc. But i think i will give it a go
 
 
RE: conspiracies
 
I think that the most outrageous conspiracy (potentially) must be the moon landing.
 
if we were fooled in 1969, some Oscars should be awarded LOL
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 19:19
Spear of Destiny is among my favorite. Although moon landing conspiracy is outrageous, it's fun to think about it.
     
   
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Onkel_Wowa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2007 at 09:54
Originally posted by aslanlar

What was the conspiracy over Rasputins death?


In 2004 BBC released a documentary film about this assassination.
It was an operation of The British Intelligence. By the way, the person who shot dead Rasputin, Vladimir Purishkevich is most blamed for organizing so called Jewish Pogroms in Russia.
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Posts: 591 		  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2007 at 10:23
Only a conspiracy theory!
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2007 at 12:20
 
Originally posted by Onkel_Wowa

Originally posted by aslanlar

What was the conspiracy over Rasputins death?


In 2004 BBC released a documentary film about this assassination.
It was an operation of The British Intelligence.
Is there any evidence whatsoever for that other than that Yusupov was educated at Oxford and Britain gave him sanctuary?  
 
By the way, the person who shot dead Rasputin, Vladimir Purishkevich is most blamed for organizing so called Jewish Pogroms in Russia.
 
Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovitch Romanov is also supposed to have fired the shot that finally killed Rasputin. Now he was let go by the Bolsheviks, even though they killed his father, mother and brother. So I guess Lenin was in on the conspiracy too. And since the Germans helped Lenin get back into Russia, then they must have been in on it, so it was really an Anglo-German-Bolshevik-Romanov joint conspiracy.
 
Yay!
 
Who were they conspiring against? France? World Jewry?
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Onkel_Wowa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2007 at 14:42
Leon Trotsky  brought as well $20 Millions in 1917 from America to make a revolution in Russia. His uncle Abram Zhivotovsky, a Russian banker, was a Rothschild's relative.
It was a joint operation. International bankers paid for everything.
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2007 at 12:00
So it was an Anglo-German-Bolshevik-Romanov-American-Jewish conspiracy?
 
I guess poor Kerensky never had a chance.
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Posts: 2394 		  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2007 at 03:24
Of course there are plenty of ridiculous and absurd notions about imagined conspiracies, but I really hate this recent trend toward labelling any sort of organized aggressive action with any element of secrecy as "conspiracy theory" and thus imaginary. It's silly. History - even recent history - is absolutely replete with real conspiracies that were quite fantastic, but very real.

Look at the Lavon Affair, for instance. Or what about just before Barbarossa - were German politicians and officials not engaged in a secret conspiracy to attack Russia? It would all seem crazy before the truth was revealed, but all so ho-hum now because we've just accepted the facts.

Edited by edgewaters - 26-Jun-2007 at 03:25
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Posts: 1457 		  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2007 at 06:23

A lot of people start taking some interest in history once a particular incident is called a conspiracy. Did an international rainbow of Trotskyites pervert Marxism? Who was Marylyns secret lover, was it JFK?  Why were there shadows and a breeze on the moon? Did a shot come from the grassy knoll? Did the CIA do 9/11 to make others look bad? Find out here as the nefarious schemes previously hidden from the world unfold!

 We can go back in time and find all sorts of conspiracies waiting. Did aliens build the pyramids to disguise their embedded colonies on earth? Was Jesus married and did he have a child? The Da Vinca Code made the author a fortune by suggesting a family conspiracy, and didnt even tell half the story that could be told. Thats the problem. When a story is only half or less told it sells big time, the complete story is near worthless. Ye shall know never the truth for the truth is only an establishemt  conspiracy!    



Edited by elenos - 26-Jun-2007 at 06:28
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2007 at 07:20
I've always found how Romanus IV Diogenes was deserted by several of his commanders at Manzikert to reek of a Byzantine court conspiracy. His position as Emperor was disputed, especially by the Ducas family, and the person who commanded the heavy infantry at Manzikert, Andronicus Ducas, held his troops back at the decisive moment of the Seljuk charge. At the same time the Frank Roussell Ballieul withdrew his cavalry, and the Turkish mercenaries had already deserted in favour of the Seljuks...it'd be amazing if this was just a series of spontaneous and coincidental actions.
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Onkel_Wowa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2007 at 09:59
Some people find conspiracy theories silly. But, simple question: what gives people power? The answer is obvious: money. Where are our money? In a bank.
 Have You heard that bankers officially control any country? Probably, not. Because they hide this. Official government do not control their intelligence services, they obey them. Bankers control everything, including "free" mass media.

Edited by Onkel_Wowa - 26-Jun-2007 at 10:00
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Posts: 3387 		  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2007 at 10:20
And who control the bankers? Share-holders.
 
And yes, shareholders control the world. Luckily there are so many of them, it is unlikely they are all in on a complot without anyone else knowing it. Let alone get consensus. LOL

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