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Ethnic difference between Mongolic and Turkic?

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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ethnic difference between Mongolic and Turkic?
    Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 19:54
You are welcome !
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  Quote khutulun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 06:42
Originally posted by Penelope

I would like for someone to attempt to prove to me, that the Mongols, as a WHOLE, were Turks.
 
Not sure if you are still around, and I understand I am picking up an old thread (my prerogative) but your question or challenge confused me.  Was anyone claiming Mongols, in whole or part, were Turks?  You are the first person I've come across whose thrown a challenge against...a non existent argument. 
 
Turks and Mongols are different peoples, though they share a kinship, due to proximity, similarities in language, culture, and religion and of course, intermarriage.   (Turks as in Turkic peoples)
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  Quote Sukhbaatar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2008 at 14:09
Before Islam, there was very little difference between Turk and Mongol. Two different people yes, but we are Altai, and any Altai educated in their own history know this as a fact. There is no such policy as only a "pure" Turk or a "pure" Mongol. There's not even such a term as "pure" Altai. We do not have "racial" thinking on the steppes.
 
Turk is a complicated word, united Altai consider Turkic and Turkish two completely different things. However, not to doubt the Turkish have Altai roots, though, their hearts have changed over many centuries due to Islam, intermixing and cultural assimilation.
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2008 at 15:41
^go back to AF subotai

Islam has changed the Turks but not that much as the change in geography did. Cultural exchange & living to gether with Non-altaic people
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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  Quote Sukhbaatar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2008 at 04:18

When I mention Islam, I'm not mentioning Sufism tujue, no need to get all worked up.

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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2008 at 20:12
still I stand by my point
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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  Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2009 at 06:42
Originally posted by Penelope

 
I would like for someone to attempt to prove to me, that the Mongols, as a WHOLE, were Turks.
 
 
 
Such an attempt is politically motivated by Pan-Turkic or Pan-Altaic enthusiasts in cyberspace and underground movement.
 
This small group of individuals try to form a phantom alliance or an united front against the Chinese,more specifically confront PRC's rule over Turkic peoples within its borders.
 
 
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  Quote oceanstar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2012 at 09:03
http://tak-alliance.blogspot.ca/
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  Quote oceanstar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2012 at 09:06
I beg to differ if you google me april yildiz ilkin or read tak blog you will see the damages done of our hidden history
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  Quote oceanstar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2012 at 09:08
love it
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  Quote oceanstar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2012 at 09:19
google me april yildiz ilkin for the whole story

Did you ever wonder why the West would name such a fowl ugly type of bird that people eat after a country such as Turkey or why Down Syndrome children were called Mongoloids (same name as the Mongol Empire). It was too make small, our great civilizations, and to  modified our history, and the importance of its contributions to the world.

Its a technique called associating. Meaning associate an ugly bird with a group of people to distant them from others. Furthermore it creates separation of people, for example I rather be Kurdi, Armenian, Tatar etc. any day, than an ugly bird that sits at the dinner table waiting to be eaten.

Same with the Mongol People they associated sick down syndrome  children with one of the largest empires in history. Want another more recent examples, Compton (L.A) in the US was so proned to gang violence that some street names were changed. Meet me at Boyle street became meet me at pink fairy lane. Just like I want to talk about Mongol History, (I am the average person), but as I imagine sick kids I close the topic. Do you see the damages to our history?

P.S dont laugh Armenians, the Mongol Empire included you as well....(with the mongoloid nickname). Sorry I covered that region with the red tracker in error but you can google the location of the Mongol Empire as evidence.
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  Quote oceanstar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2012 at 09:21
all I am saying is I cut and paste a piece of my blog. Turkic nomads were the kings of central asia they roamed for thousands of years. Please do not make comments like the mongols were not turkic descent really silly
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2012 at 09:55
Whoa, who you calling an ugly bird.  The American Turkey is a regal, and attractive bird, if Ben Franklin had had his way, the Turkey would be today the Symbol of the US.
 
We get visited regularly, by a group of Wild Turkeys that are without a doubt, the biggest, fattest Turkeys That anyone has seen, ever.  The males run 20-30 lbs.for a wild turkey that's huge.  These are wild birds, the Domestic Turkey is the ugly, stupid version of the wild bird, it didn't exist at the times that the bird could have been named.
There are very old refs. to the expression "Turk" and Turkey in the "New World.  Turks and Cacos Islands near Florida, for example.  No one knows how the Islands got that name, but it was right around first contact.  Another unknown are the Genetic markers that have been found in some of the indigenous folks in the South East US. that seem to indicate an early presence of peoples from the Mediteranean basin.  In my family it runs back as far as 900 AD.  approx.
 
     
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2012 at 10:13
A little off topic but relevant, the Wild Turkey used to be a reclusive animal, requiring a skilled "caller" to hunt them. [Experts have cataloged over 150 separate and distinct sounds that they make.]  However, they, like many other wild creatures, have adapted.  They have discovered the many bird feeders that exist in Suburban areas.  They also have discovered that they are a "novelty" to the locals, and quite often come to the front door for handouts.  They have lost all fear of us.
BTW- Some of these birds stand 3 ft. at the shoulders, these are not scrawny, scruffy birds.
 
 
 


Edited by red clay - 01-Sep-2012 at 10:43
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2012 at 12:08
I'm not sure that Mongols were Turkic; the inclusion of the Mongolian language in the Altaic group, AFAIK, is controversial. Genetically the Mongols are closer to the Siberian populations, and started out from Mongolia, not from Central Asia:

""..."[...] Archaeological and anthropological data reveal that modern Mongolians are the descendants of ancient nomads whose remains have been found throughout the territories of Mongolia dating to at least the end of the Neolithic period (TUMEN 1992). [...] To investigate mtDNA diversity within Mongolia and identify possible New World founding populations, we studied two Mongolian indigenous populations: the Khalkha and the Dariganga, representing 80 and 1.5% of the Mongolian populace, respectively. The Khalkha are the largest cultural group in Mongolia and number - 1.6 million individuals (1989 population census). They are distributed throughout the territory of Mongolia and, like all Mongol-speakers, speak a language assigned to the Mongolian branch of the Altaic linguistic family (BADAMKHATAN 1987).."" http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/mongols.html
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  Quote sumtingwong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2012 at 03:53
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I saw a lot of resistance from the Turkish people from Turkey to the FACT that Turkic people and Mongolian people are related.  In a sense, these people might be right.

Remember, when the Turkic people arrived at what is now Turkey, there was already a huge population of a people related to the Greek living there.  These Greek-related people have absolutely no relation to the Mongolian people.  As this small group of newly arrival Turkic people dominated over the existing, more populous, Greek-related people and formed what is now Turkey, these Greek-related people gradually adopted the Turkish identity and call themselves Turkish.  There sure was inter-marriage between this group of Turkic people & Greek-related people, but genetically speaking, the population of Turkey is more Greek-related than Turkic.  They generally look more European than their ancient overlords, who forced upon them the now-Turkish identity.

So if you are a Turkish guy and  you don't feel any kinship with a Mongolian, you might be more Greek than Turkic, genetically, without you knowing it.  But the fact that you are more Greek than Turkic and don't see any relationship between you and a Mongolian does not mean that Turkic people and Mongolian people are not related.  The FACT is that they are.


Edited by sumtingwong - 20-Sep-2012 at 03:54
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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2014 at 00:47
Originally posted by Afsar Beghi


Can it be possible that the Mongols were a elite-turkic tribe, that named themselves mongols? And because they were elite they chose to use a slightly  different language than the normal turkic people.
This because I am reading a book about Genghis Kahn from Paul Ratchnevsky, in which he suggest that some tribes were Turkic but had Mongol tribe names

You're on the wrong track.

The Mongols are phenotypically Oriental.
 
Where I think you're getting a bit confused, is that during the establishment, if that's the correct word, of the Mongol Empire, anyone who wished, basically, could join the Mongols. Also, when some countries were conquered by the Mongols, troops could opt to join the Mongols or be executed. Some countries even surrendered without a shot fired, so to speak. They also had to pay a tribute to the Mongols, which in some cases included providing troops.
 
So, bottom line, not every single member of the Mongol Hordes was genetically, a Mongol.
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