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WWII Blunders

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  Quote rommel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: WWII Blunders
    Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 15:32

I think one blunder that cost the axis forces dearly was the battle of stalingrad i think they lost it because of Hitler. This is because Hitler would sack generals during the battle who told him things he didnt want to hear. For example they told him that the communications line was dangerously extended and that communications lines were thin. Field Marshell list was sacked followed by Halder. Hitler refused to let Paulus surrender when the Russians were surrounding them in Stalingrad, because Goring promised supply by the Luftwaffe, but that was a farce bacause that was heavily commited to supplying Rommel in Africa. Hitler made Paulus a field Marshell to prevent him from surrendering, but he did so on the 2nd of February 1943. 70,ooo Germans died along with 92,000 prisoners and was a turning point in the war.

What other blunders or mistakes by the Germans contributed to their defeat, any suggestions.


Edited by rommel - 07-Jun-2007 at 18:54
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2007 at 13:36
In fact the battle for Stalingrad was by itself a big blunder. Instead of concentrating all their forces at Caucasus, Germans had to divide their initial them into 2 parts, because Stalingrad had "a symbolical meaning" for Hitler.
 
After this division, Germans didn't have enough force to achieve success at any of the directions and eventually lost both Stalingrad and Northern Caucasus.


Edited by Sarmat12 - 09-Jun-2007 at 13:38
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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2007 at 13:41
Striving for Caucasus was itself a mistake , you dont put a huge arrmy onto a narrow pieace of land...look at the map of USSR a German army in the Caucasus could have been easily cut off from the main armies. Also, large armies are far more ineffective in the mountains than in plains.
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2007 at 14:14
Originally posted by mamikon

Striving for Caucasus was itself a mistake , you dont put a huge arrmy onto a narrow pieace of land...look at the map of USSR a German army in the Caucasus could have been easily cut off from the main armies. Also, large armies are far more ineffective in the mountains than in plains.
 
That is true, but the main target of the German offence was Caspian oil. Germans coulde create a defensive line along their left flang and proceed to the Caucasus with the main forces.
 
Without Caspian oil, all the German offence in 1942 and the war effort in general was meaningless. Besides, it was also a possiblity that Turkey would attack SU from the south if Germans were succesful in Caucasus.
 
From the very beginning of 1942 the main target was Caucasus. Hitler decided to split the forces when Stalingrad wasn't taken after the first attack. Later he became obsessed with Stalingrad and instead sending all the reinforcements to Caucasus send them to Stalingrad which definetely was a mistake.
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  Quote ChickenShoes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2007 at 11:14
Originally posted by Sarmat12

In fact the battle for Stalingrad was by itself a big blunder. Instead of concentrating all their forces at Caucasus, Germans had to divide their initial them into 2 parts, because Stalingrad had "a symbolical meaning" for Hitler.
 
After this division, Germans didn't have enough force to achieve success at any of the directions and eventually lost both Stalingrad and Northern Caucasus.
 
Yeah very true, his generals advised a second thrust on Moscow instead. When Hitler suggested a drive towards the oil fields his generals advised and said this could be a good idea if executed properly, but we see how that went.
 
 
I think big blunders include the English in Norway, Rommel not gaining one more division in North Africa (hitler refusing to commit armored divisions to the Suez canal), Hitler halting his panzer thrust towards Dunkirk, practically the whole Winter War on the Soviet side, Hitler not equipping soldiers on the Eastern Front with winter provisions, Hitler not closing the Western Front before attacking in the east, Hitler changing the target of Luftwaffe raids from RAF fields and radar stations to London, the Holocaust (as far as in a practical sense. it took a lot of time, resources, and manpower I'm sure and cost Germany socially. It was a very terrible event, just stating in sense of war), Allied partying in 1945 that led to Operation Bodenplatte, no counterattack plan for D-Day like Rommel organized, two bombs on Japan (I feel that this was only for bragging rights against the USSR, like "check it out, we have two weapons of this destruction and you don't even have one, look how close it is to you), and countless more I am unaware of.


Edited by ChickenShoes - 13-Jun-2007 at 11:15
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2007 at 14:16
I think the biggest blunder of the war was when Clark posed in Rome in front of the world's press, instead of attacking the Gothic Line. It added a year to the war, cost ten of thousands of lives, all entirely for his vanity.


Edited by Paul - 13-Jun-2007 at 14:16
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2007 at 01:31
The Italian campaign in general was a blunder. It tied down the best allied troops in s secondry theater. As a result you had very green formations attacking at Normandy. I think the US 3 ID would have done better at Omaha, then the 29 ID a formation that should never have been thrown to the wolves.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2007 at 22:59
I think that some of the blunders were a much more broad scale. If I were in Germany's position I would've waited a couple of years, perhaps until 1941 or even 1942 to give the Italians the time they needed to get on a serious war footing and consequently, leave the time needed for a possibility less hostile reception to future german expansionism from England and France.
 
 
Also, I think the entire invasion of the USSR, while promising, was a massive mistake. I would've opted for the much more cautionary concentration of forces against England and to force them to terms even if they weren't unconditional. I'm no expert, but I find it hard to believe that Britain could've lasted too much longer with the full weight and industry of Germany against them.
 
Japan's folly was probably attacking the U.S. And if not that, then not officially declaring war and/or following up with an invasion of Hawaii to secure a shield for the Japanese home islands.
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  Quote aslanlar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 06:58
Hitler did not want to start war in 1939 either. He described the British and French leaders as "little worms" and thought that they would not declare war on him over Poland IF Russia attacked aswell, thus constitution the Nazi-Soviet Pact. However, unfortunately for him Britain and France declared war on him.

The invasion of the USSR was in part a mistake. Had they done it 2 or 3 months earlier, before the Russian Winter came along, i think they would of conquered the USSR. However, because of the ineffective Italian army, Opperation Barbarossa (invasion of USSR) was delayed.

I don't thing the battle of Britain was too big a deal. Like Japan, it was an island and significant forces would be lost trying to take them out of the war. If only they had nuclear weapons then.. :P.

Yes Japans problem was Pearl Harbour. However if it had been successful, i think America would of had a big problem on her hands.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 11:01
Pear Harbor was not a blunder. It was a side operation to Malaya and the Phillipines, the attack on any of which would have brought the US to war. Once the strategic decision had been made to strike into these territories, then an attack on Pearl Harbor was was necessary.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 19:56
Originally posted by Sparten

Pear Harbor was not a blunder. It was a side operation to Malaya and the Phillipines, the attack on any of which would have brought the US to war. Once the strategic decision had been made to strike into these territories, then an attack on Pearl Harbor was was necessary.
 
 
Tactically no, it wasn't a blunder. Strategically it was.  They missed their primary target, the Carrier fleet, and the timing made it a sneak attack.  The result was a pissed off country with an intact offensive force. 
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 20:40
The Battle of the Hurtgen Forest has to rank up there on the stupidity Gage.  25-30,000 American dead missing or wounded for something that had no military value.  In a place where the allies couldn't bring armor or air power into play.

Edited by red clay - 30-Jun-2007 at 20:42
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 01:19
I agree with the meat grinder of the Hurtgen Forest. And Pearl Harbor was a strategic sucess as well, it achieved its strategic purpose, the US Pacific Fleet could not dispute the Japanese assualts in East Asia. And the country would have been just as"pissed off" once Japan  attacked the Philippines which was also an American pocession.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 18:48
Germany not changing to a "total war" economy and maintaining pre war production levels cant of helped their situation. However it maybe because of Hitler giving the position of economy minister to Goring who had no apptitude for dealing with the economy. He who said himself that he was unfamiliar with the runnings of an economy let alone one that was at war.

Edited by Waterloo - 01-Jul-2007 at 18:51
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 20:30
Would the failure of the Nazis to develop and produce a long range Heavy bomber be considered a blunder?  Or just short sighted.
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  Quote Mumbloid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 14:19
Italy invading Greece.
 
Derfasciti:
  If I were in Germany's position I would've waited a couple of years, perhaps until 1941 or even 1942 to give the Italians the time they needed to get on a serious war footing and consequently, leave the time needed for a possibility less hostile reception to future german expansionism from England and France. 
 
I agree, however it was also Mussolini fault, because he didnt want to go in war in the first place, and then he suddently declared war without giving time to the armed forces and to the economy to prepare themself.
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote PanzerOberst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jul-2007 at 16:49
Originally posted by red clay

The Battle of the Hurtgen Forest has to rank up there on the stupidity Gage.  25-30,000 American dead missing or wounded for something that had no military value.  In a place where the allies couldn't bring armor or air power into play.
 
I think I have to agree with red clay here, we however have to keep in mind that there were quite a number of other 'blunders' made during the war.
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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jul-2007 at 20:27
Everyone here seams to think that attackin russia was a mistake,but do you forget the fact that russian army was trained for attack and not for defence?
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  Quote rommel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 19:43
wot u on about. Germany geared to a total war economy in 1944
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  Quote PanzerOberst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2007 at 10:01
Originally posted by HEROI

Everyone here seams to think that attackin russia was a mistake,but do you forget the fact that russian army was trained for attack and not for defence?
 
I have no info on that, but it is widely believed that Russia was only bidding her time b4 launching further expansion to the west.
 
 
Originally posted by rommel

wot u on about. Germany geared to a total war economy in 1944
 
That is correct, it happened when Albert Speer became the Minister of Armaments.
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