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ipwinner
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Topic: Mongol invasion to Indonesia Posted: 09-May-2018 at 23:45 |
"Mongols' expedition to Indonesia "? I wasn't aware about that, but after some studying, I understand that you are talking about the Yuan Army's activities on Java. Nice point of view... :-)
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amature historian
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Posted: 24-Jul-2017 at 19:58 |
Indonesia was a lot richer than Hungary and Russia, yet the Mongols invaded both those places, and Indonesia was fairly prosperous at the time.
Sea invasions are tought, especially for places far out at sea like Indonesia and Japan. Neither Napoleon nor Hittler were able to successfully cross the 20 miles of the English Channel to invade England, and they had better technology. Indonesia was a lot further out in the ocean. And the nature of a sea invasion negates a lot of the Mongol's greatest strenghts. It is difficult to transport horses by sea, and so the number of horses the Mongols could bring would have been limited, thus reducing the Mongols greatest asset, their mobility. So it is not surprising that the Mongols failed in both Indonesia and Japan.
In general, the Mongols did not do well where they could not use their horses and mobility to their best advantage. The Mongols did not conquer India, depite the riches to be found their, nor did they conquer Vietnam. Altnough they killed a lot of people in Hungary, after a year's time they still hadn't completely subdued it, and they didn't even attempt to invade the far richer lands of Austria and Germany, although they had a year to do so. The flat plains of Hungary were better suited to Mongol warfare than the more forested and hilly lands of Austria, which was probably a factor.
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toyomotor
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Posted: 03-Jan-2014 at 13:21 |
Originally posted by pekau
Indonesia was rich? Sorry, I need to keep up with Southeasern Asian history... but compared to the splendor of Persia and China? Not so sure about that... |
Be sure! In it's heyday, Java Brunei and Borneo, comparatively speaking, were extremely rich. Google Brunei.
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Brainsucker
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Posted: 18-Apr-2009 at 08:42 |
Well, one for sure, that it is not Vijaya, but Wijaya. The pronouce almost the same as Win without n.
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Byzantine Emperor
Arch Duke
Kastrophylax kai Tzaousios
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Posted: 12-Jun-2007 at 01:01 |
Sander is the most recent person to post something relevent to this thread. Everyone, please try to discuss the topic at hand. Thanks!
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Sander
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Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 12:24 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Ermh
The mongol army landed in Java and defeated the Javanese army. The mongols had the king replaced with one who was expected to me far more servile to the mongols. The Javanese nobility subsequently invited all the mongol leaders to a banquet, it was trickery and the mongol leaders were masacared*.
*I wonder if this gave inspiration to "the night of long knifes"?
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I read a similar story once but it seems a folk legend from popular internetsites. The Chinese histories mention the dates , events and tell how Shih pi, the general was punished in China for the failed expedition.
After the Javanese usurper was defeated by Mongols and Javanese, the last events are usually summerized as below:
"Raden Vijaya asked permission from the Chinese to return to Majapahit with a Chinese escort to seek the tribute promised to the Great Khan. In reality he was seeking to get rid of his allies , who were no longer useful after the defeat of his adversery. He began, on May 26, 1293, by massacring his escort ; then, with his Javanese, he turned against the Chinese established at Kediri and forced them to get back on their ships. On May 31 they sailed for China ,where they arrived on August 8. "
(Coedes, G. The Indianized states of South East Asia , p. 201 )
Edited by Sander - 11-Jun-2007 at 12:48
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TranHungDao
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Posted: 10-Jun-2007 at 22:20 |
A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!
--- Richard III, from Shakespeare's Richard III
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Intranetusa
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Posted: 10-Jun-2007 at 21:55 |
"My life for the swarm."
-Red Army Conscript
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TranHungDao
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 23:27 |
" The only good Zerg is a dead Zerg!"
--- Gen. Philip Sheridan, United States Army, 1869
Can't disagree with that!
I
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Intranetusa
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 22:18 |
"Quantity has a quality of its own"
-Famous quote from Starcraft, in reference to the Zerg
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TranHungDao
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 22:13 |
Stalin is in a league of his own.
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pekau
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 20:16 |
"Quantity has a quality of its own"
- Stalin
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Join us.
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Sarmat
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 20:10 |
Originally posted by TranHungDao
Sarmat12,
Quite off topic but... Did you know you and I joined AE on the same day?
However, you've got more posts than I.
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Cool !
Keep working ...
Though, I believe the important thing is not the number but the quality of the posts...
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Σαυρομάτης
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TranHungDao
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 17:39 |
Sarmat12,
Quite off topic but... Did you know you and I joined AE on the same day?
However, you've got more posts than I.
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Sarmat
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 17:34 |
Originally posted by TranHungDao
I think you're right!
However, everything else still holds if you replace "Hong Kong" with "Canton".
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Absolutely !
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Σαυρομάτης
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TranHungDao
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 17:30 |
I think you're right!
However, everything else still holds if you replace "Hong Kong" with "Canton".
Edited by TranHungDao - 07-Jun-2007 at 17:33
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Sarmat
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 13:31 |
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Σαυρομάτης
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Sarmat
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 13:26 |
Originally posted by TranHungDao
Originally posted by Sarmat12
I doubt if Hong Kong was so important at that time. Perhaps, it just was a small fisherman village before British took it in XIX century. |
*tsk, tsk*
Keith Taylor claims in the Birth of Vietnam that because Hong Kong was such a bustling place of commerce in the 10th century, or 300 years before the Mongols' worldwide rampage, that China no longer wanted to keep a constantly and fiercely rebellious Vietnam as a province. When Vietnam was first conquered by the Chinese over 1000 years earlier, Canton though much bigger geographically was far less populated than Vietnam, or rather the Red River Delta of northern Vietnam, and hence the tax base their was much less valuable than that coming from the Vietnamese. Not so, by the 10th century CE!
I can't recall when exactly, but Hong Kong was sacked by Arab traders, perhaps around the 1200's or 1300's. They did so because they were pissed at the Chinese merchants for being greedy and conniving.
The Javanese invaded Champa around this time period too because the Chams kept plundering their trade vessels. The Javanese were not the Cham's only victims.
The point, I'm trying to make is there was vigorous trade in SE Asia well before the Mongols arrival into the area.
"small fishingman village"? HA!
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You are absolutely right. But Hong Kong didn't have that importance. Some parts of the modern Hong Kong served as trading posts for some time, but Hong Kong like it extists now evolved only after the British had conquered the region.
The most important Chinese ancient trading haven was Guangzhou (Canton). The trade with the Middle East and India and Indonesia was also done via Guangzhou.
Check this out:
Edited by Sarmat12 - 07-Jun-2007 at 17:09
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Intranetusa
Janissary
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 11:43 |
Wow, the typhoons must be out to get the Mongols
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TranHungDao
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Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 11:22 |
Originally posted by Sarmat12
I doubt if Hong Kong was so important at that time. Perhaps, it just was a small fisherman village before British took it in XIX century. |
*tsk, tsk*
Keith Taylor claims in the Birth of Vietnam that because Hong Kong was such a bustling place of commerce in the 10th century, or 300 years before
the Mongols' worldwide rampage, that China no longer wanted to keep a
constantly and fiercely rebellious Vietnam as a province. When
Vietnam was first conquered by the Chinese over 1000 years earlier,
Canton though much bigger geographically was far less populated than
Vietnam, or rather the Red River Delta of northern Vietnam, and hence
the tax base their was much less valuable than that coming from the
Vietnamese. Not so, by the 10th century CE!
I can't recall when exactly, but Hong Kong was sacked by Arab traders,
perhaps around the 1200's or 1300's. They did so because they
were pissed at the Chinese merchants for being greedy and conniving.
The Javanese invaded Champa around this time period too because the
Chams kept plundering their trade vessels. The Javanese were not
the Cham's only victims.
The point, I'm trying to make is there was vigorous trade in SE Asia well before the Mongols arrival into the area.
"small fishingman village"? HA!
Edited by TranHungDao - 07-Jun-2007 at 11:28
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