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Mongol invasion to Indonesia

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  Quote amature historian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mongol invasion to Indonesia
    Posted: 24-Jul-2017 at 19:58

Indonesia was a lot richer than Hungary and Russia, yet the Mongols invaded both those places, and Indonesia was fairly prosperous at the time.  

Sea invasions are tought, especially for places far out at sea like Indonesia and Japan. Neither Napoleon nor Hittler were able to successfully cross the 20 miles of the English Channel to invade England, and they had better technology.  Indonesia was a lot further out in the ocean.   And the nature of a sea invasion negates a lot of the Mongol's greatest strenghts.   It is difficult to transport horses by sea, and so the number of horses the Mongols could bring would have been limited, thus reducing the Mongols greatest asset, their mobility.  So it is not surprising that the Mongols failed in both Indonesia and Japan.

In general, the Mongols did not do well where they could not use their horses and mobility to their best advantage.  The Mongols did not conquer India, depite the riches to be found their, nor did they conquer Vietnam.  Altnough they killed a lot of people in Hungary, after a year's time they still hadn't completely subdued it, and they didn't even attempt to invade the far richer lands of Austria and Germany, although they had a year to do so.   The flat plains of Hungary were better suited to Mongol warfare than the more forested and hilly lands of Austria, which was probably a factor.


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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2014 at 13:21
Originally posted by pekau

Indonesia was rich? Sorry, I need to keep up with Southeasern  Asian history...  but compared to the splendor of  Persia and China? Not so sure about that...

Be sure! In it's heyday, Java Brunei and Borneo, comparatively speaking, were extremely rich. Google Brunei.
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  Quote Brainsucker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2009 at 08:42
Well, one for sure, that it is not Vijaya, but Wijaya. The pronouce almost the same as Win without n.
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  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2007 at 01:01
Sander is the most recent person to post something relevent to this thread.  Everyone, please try to discuss the topic at hand.  Thanks!
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2007 at 12:24
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Ermh Confused

The mongol army landed in Java and defeated the Javanese army. The mongols had the king replaced with one who was expected to me far more servile to the mongols. The Javanese nobility subsequently invited all the mongol leaders to a banquet, it was trickery and the mongol leaders were masacared*.


*I wonder if this gave inspiration to "the night of long knifes"?
 
I read a similar story once but it seems a folk legend from popular internetsites. The Chinese histories mention the dates , events and tell how Shih pi, the general was punished in China for the failed expedition.
 
After the Javanese usurper was defeated by Mongols and Javanese, the last events are usually summerized as below:

"Raden Vijaya asked permission from the Chinese to return to Majapahit with a Chinese escort to seek the tribute promised to the Great Khan. In reality he was seeking to get rid of his allies , who were no longer useful after the defeat of his adversery. He began, on May 26, 1293, by massacring his escort ; then, with his Javanese, he turned against the Chinese established at Kediri and forced them to get back on their ships. On May 31 they sailed for China ,where they arrived on August 8. "
 
(Coedes, G. The Indianized states of South East Asia , p. 201 )


Edited by Sander - 11-Jun-2007 at 12:48
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  Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2007 at 22:20
A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!

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  Quote Intranetusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2007 at 21:55
"My life for the swarm."
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  Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 23:27



"The only good Zerg is a dead Zerg!" Angry
  
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Can't disagree with that!  Clap






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  Quote Intranetusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 22:18
"Quantity has a quality of its own"
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  Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 22:13
Stalin is in a league of his own.  Ermm
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 20:16
"Quantity has a quality of its own"
                            - Stalin
     
   
Join us.
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 20:10
Originally posted by TranHungDao

Sarmat12,

Quite off topic but...  Did you know you and I joined AE on the same day?  Clap

However, you've got more posts than I.  Cry
 
Cool !  Clap 
 
Keep working ... Big%20smile
 
Though, I believe the important thing is not the number but the quality of the posts...Cool
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  Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 17:39
Sarmat12,

Quite off topic but...  Did you know you and I joined AE on the same day?  Clap

However, you've got more posts than I.  Cry
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 17:34
Originally posted by TranHungDao

Originally posted by Sarmat12

I think you indeed confused Hong-Kong with Guangzhou:

I think you're right! LOL

However, everything else still holds if you replace "Hong Kong" with "Canton".  Disapprove
 
 
Absolutely !Thumbs%20Up
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  Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 17:30
Originally posted by Sarmat12

I think you indeed confused Hong-Kong with Guangzhou:

I think you're right! LOL

However, everything else still holds if you replace "Hong Kong" with "Canton".  Disapprove


Edited by TranHungDao - 07-Jun-2007 at 17:33
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 13:31
 TO TranHungDao
 
I think you indeed confused Hong-Kong with Guangzhou:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou#History
 
Arab and Persian pirates sacked Guangzhou (known to them as Sin-Kalan) in AD 758, according to a local Guangzhou government report on October 30, 758, which corresponded to the day of Guisi (癸巳) of the ninth lunar month in the first year of the Qianyuan era of Emperor Suzong of the Tang Dynasty.[1][2][3]


Edited by Sarmat12 - 07-Jun-2007 at 13:34
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 13:26
Originally posted by TranHungDao

Originally posted by Sarmat12

I doubt if Hong Kong was so important at that time. Perhaps, it just was a small fisherman village before British took it in XIX century.


*tsk, tsk* Disapprove

Keith Taylor claims in the Birth of Vietnam that because Hong Kong was such a bustling place of commerce in the 10th century, or 300 years before the Mongols' worldwide rampage, that China no longer wanted to keep a constantly and fiercely rebellious Vietnam as a province.  When Vietnam was first conquered by the Chinese over 1000 years earlier, Canton though much bigger geographically was far less populated than Vietnam, or rather the Red River Delta of northern Vietnam, and hence the tax base their was much less valuable than that coming from the Vietnamese.  Not so, by the 10th century CE!

I can't recall when exactly, but Hong Kong was sacked by Arab traders, perhaps around the 1200's or 1300's.  They did so because they were pissed at the Chinese merchants for being greedy and conniving.

The Javanese invaded Champa around this time period too because the Chams kept plundering their trade vessels.  The Javanese were not the Cham's only victims. 

The point, I'm trying to make is there was vigorous trade in SE Asia well before the Mongols arrival into the area.

"small fishingman village"?  HA!  Ermm
 
You are absolutely right. But Hong Kong didn't have that importance. Some parts of the modern Hong Kong served as  trading posts for some time, but Hong Kong like it extists now evolved only after the British had  conquered the region.
 
The most important Chinese ancient trading haven was Guangzhou (Canton). The trade with the Middle East and India and Indonesia was also done via Guangzhou.
 
Check this out:
 
 
The History of Hong Kong in Imperial China began in 214 BC under the Qin Dynasty. The territory remain largely unoccupied until the end of the Qing Dynasty when Imperial China lost the region to the British Colony in the 1800s.


Edited by Sarmat12 - 07-Jun-2007 at 17:09
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  Quote Intranetusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 11:43
Wow, the typhoons must be out to get the Mongols
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  Quote TranHungDao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 11:22
Originally posted by Sarmat12

I doubt if Hong Kong was so important at that time. Perhaps, it just was a small fisherman village before British took it in XIX century.


*tsk, tsk* Disapprove

Keith Taylor claims in the Birth of Vietnam that because Hong Kong was such a bustling place of commerce in the 10th century, or 300 years before the Mongols' worldwide rampage, that China no longer wanted to keep a constantly and fiercely rebellious Vietnam as a province.  When Vietnam was first conquered by the Chinese over 1000 years earlier, Canton though much bigger geographically was far less populated than Vietnam, or rather the Red River Delta of northern Vietnam, and hence the tax base their was much less valuable than that coming from the Vietnamese.  Not so, by the 10th century CE!

I can't recall when exactly, but Hong Kong was sacked by Arab traders, perhaps around the 1200's or 1300's.  They did so because they were pissed at the Chinese merchants for being greedy and conniving.

The Javanese invaded Champa around this time period too because the Chams kept plundering their trade vessels.  The Javanese were not the Cham's only victims. 

The point, I'm trying to make is there was vigorous trade in SE Asia well before the Mongols arrival into the area.

"small fishingman village"?  HA!  Ermm


Edited by TranHungDao - 07-Jun-2007 at 11:28
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 01:46
Originally posted by TranHungDao

Java did a lot of trade with China.  Javanese merchant ships frequented Hong Kong.  Heck, why trade with the Javanese when you can just take it from them!  
 
I doubt if Hong Kong was so important at that time. Perhaps, it just was a small fisherman village before British took it in XIX century.
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