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Ottoman territories in Africa

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andrew View Drop Down
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  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ottoman territories in Africa
    Posted: 09-Oct-2007 at 02:28
Originally posted by Al Jassas

Hello Andrew
 
Sorry but the historical accounts by historians who witnessed the invasion say otherwise and the people who were left also indicate otherwise. In the south of the Country in Asir region in the beautiful city of Al-Namas there is a large tribe called Bani Shahr. one of their biggest clans are knows as "Al-Asasblah" "العسابلة". These are the descendents of Turkish soldiers who invaded that country with Ibrahim and since they are not Arab, they were forbidden to marry into other tribes or to marry their daughters to other tribes which made them inbreed and keep their distinct features until today, Blue eyes, a minority green, and Blond hair. These people take pride for being "Turks" but their features are more in line with Germanic types than Slavic. Descendents of raped women in other places still possess distinct feautures only found in Europe.
 
Al-Jassas
 
Ineteresting. Still however, Turks don't possess those traits you mentioned. They had fairly dark hair and most have brown eyes like my mom's dad did. I'm sure Egypt was mixed also and became generally lighter then the average Arab but you obviously know more then I do and the evidence of the tribes obviously can't lie. Cirsassian, Turks, and Egyptians all fought in Ibrahim's army I think.
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  Quote Sikander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2007 at 12:37
Al-Jassas wrote:

"Unlike what Sikander is proposing, the Portuguese's power never was extended beyond the sea cost, any attempt to occupy the interior they were defeated. "

- Huuummm, it's interesting as I have never proposed that... got to read it better, old chap!
Land dominance was contested in Morocco and into a certain extent in Angola, and clearly achieved in Brasil only.
As for the Indian Ocean, the Portuguese were to few even to dream about creating a continental power. The Portuguese project consisted in keeping coastal fortresses in order to choke competitor's commercial routes and liberate, or rather, secure, the Portuguese routes through East Africa (therefore the importance of Mombaa and the importance of Aden, which the Portuguese failed to take). Therefore, such small battles with the Arabs would serve only to secure a streach of land around the fortresses.
The land intervention in the Red Sea was to help a Christian ally, not to dominate the land.
 
As for the Omani surge in the XVII/XVIII cent., this was largely due to three main factors:
1 - An improvement in naval construction techniques by the Arabs (perhaps with European - English - help);
2- The empoverishment of the Eastern Portuguese Empire which by then consisted only in Goa, Macau and Timor/Flores. Therefore, at a time when the Portuguese in the Indian Ocean was nothing but a shadow of its former glory, it was easy to wage war against them;
3 - The global shift in the Portuguese Empire towards Brasil which then became the main area of concern in terms of economy, policies and investments.
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2007 at 21:21
Hello Sikander
 
Soryy butit was you who misubderstood me, I meant in my earlier post the Portuguese holdings in east africa and Arabia not west africa and Brazil, the rest I agree with you on it.
 
Al-Jassas
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  Quote Sikander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2007 at 22:10
Nope, you missunderstood me! Smile
 
You refered Portuguese expansion in East Africa and Arabia; and I said that the Portuguese never had territorial expansion projects in those parts for they were too few and their enemies too many.
 
So, the only possible expansion was in Brasil and, into a certain extent, in Morocco (though it was a short-lived project).
 
As for West Africa, territorial expansion was nimble despite some battles in the Angolan mainland. Expansion would have to wait until the late XIX /early XX century.
 
Cheers
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  Quote kafkas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2008 at 21:17
Originally posted by andrew

Originally posted by Al Jassas

Hello Andrew
 
Sorry but the historical accounts by historians who witnessed the invasion say otherwise and the people who were left also indicate otherwise. In the south of the Country in Asir region in the beautiful city of Al-Namas there is a large tribe called Bani Shahr. one of their biggest clans are knows as "Al-Asasblah" "العسابلة". These are the descendents of Turkish soldiers who invaded that country with Ibrahim and since they are not Arab, they were forbidden to marry into other tribes or to marry their daughters to other tribes which made them inbreed and keep their distinct features until today, Blue eyes, a minority green, and Blond hair. These people take pride for being "Turks" but their features are more in line with Germanic types than Slavic. Descendents of raped women in other places still possess distinct feautures only found in Europe.
 
Al-Jassas
 
Ineteresting. Still however, Turks don't possess those traits you mentioned. They had fairly dark hair and most have brown eyes like my mom's dad did. I'm sure Egypt was mixed also and became generally lighter then the average Arab but you obviously know more then I do and the evidence of the tribes obviously can't lie. Cirsassian, Turks, and Egyptians all fought in Ibrahim's army I think.


A lot of Turks have those features, including most people in my family. If you visit Turkey you'll see that they're not uncommon whatsoever.
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  Quote Tore The Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2008 at 14:45
One vital Turkish possesion was Perim or Barim island , Portugese was there 1513 but did not occuped this strategic isle , so Ottoman empire had this isle for centuries.
 
 
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2008 at 19:18
These are the descendents of Turkish soldiers who invaded that country with Ibrahim and since they are not Arab, they were forbidden to marry into other tribes or to marry their daughters to other tribes which made them inbreed and keep their distinct features until today, Blue eyes, a minority green, and Blond hair. These people take pride for being "Turks" but their features are more in line with Germanic types than Slavic.
 
They were maybe albanian..
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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2008 at 12:18
Not maybe.
For sure.
It is well known that Muhamed Ali Pasha and Ibrahim pasha ,since they themselves were Albanians,they had in their army their Albanian regiments,(also Greeks) and the people closest to them were of course Albanians.
 
 
Me pune,me perpjekje.
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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2008 at 12:24
Originally posted by kafkas



A lot of Turks have those features, including most people in my family. If you visit Turkey you'll see that they're not uncommon whatsoever.
I would belive they are mostly situated in places were there have been a majority of other Balkan people,such as the Albanians,or places were people have come from the Population exchanges with Greece,many non-Turks were shiped to Turkey based only on their religion,many of them Albanians,(Chams) who constitute the Albanian Region with the most Blonde people.In Vlora (city in Albania were i come from) i would say that the Cham population is 60% to 70% in favour of blondes.Some historians estimate that milions of people in Western Turky,specially in cities like Istambul and Izmir have Albanian origines.
Me pune,me perpjekje.
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2008 at 13:07
Infact mostly situated place is coast of blacksea and no they are not immigrants.
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  Quote kafkas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2008 at 06:48
Originally posted by HEROI

Originally posted by kafkas



A lot of Turks have those features, including most people in my family. If you visit Turkey you'll see that they're not uncommon whatsoever.
I would belive they are mostly situated in places were there have been a majority of other Balkan people,such as the Albanians,or places were people have come from the Population exchanges with Greece,many non-Turks were shiped to Turkey based only on their religion,many of them Albanians,(Chams) who constitute the Albanian Region with the most Blonde people.In Vlora (city in Albania were i come from) i would say that the Cham population is 60% to 70% in favour of blondes.Some historians estimate that milions of people in Western Turky,specially in cities like Istambul and Izmir have Albanian origines.


I'm sorry but this is simply not true. A lot of Turkophobes will tell you that light featured Turks must be mixed with "Indo-Europeans" or something. It's all racist nonsense.

My family is very very old and there's no non-Turkic influence in us that we know of. Most of my family has light features, some have very dark features, some are redheads, and regardless we're all 100% Turk. The most ancient accounts of Turks by the Chinese also mentioned their variances in physical features, some having light hair and eyes while others having darker features.

This idea of people being mixed with foreigners if they look different from others is a eurocentric attitude that wouldn't make much sense if applied in Anatolia or the Caucasus.

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  Quote HomoFlores Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2016 at 11:07
I have newly found in my research, that the Ottoman occupation of Sudan occurred sometimes in the mid of the 16th century and is consisted of much atrocities, which no one rememorises. 
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2016 at 11:33
Without sources, and details all you get is so what?



"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Aeoli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2016 at 14:02
Originally posted by HomoFlores

I have newly found in my research, that the Ottoman occupation of Sudan occurred sometimes in the mid of the 16th century and is consisted of much atrocities, which no one rememorises. 

After controling Egypt and Hejaz (West Arabia including Holy Islamic Cities), not having a relation with Sudan & Horn of Africa would be odd. 

You are completly right, in most of time Sudan is forgetten

However I guess most effective contact was in Muhammed Ali Pasha Period in 19th century, not in 16th century. 

That period is also known as Al-Turkiyah.   




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