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Colonialism

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aslanlar View Drop Down
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  Quote aslanlar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Colonialism
    Posted: 12-May-2007 at 16:51

I doubt there will be any more colonial empires in the world from now on. After Woodrow Wilson's idealistic views of a world with nations fulfilling self-determination, we had entered an era of de-colonisation.

My question is, does anyone thing it is likely for any great empires to form in the future? Something to remember like the Ottomans, Mongolia and Rome during pax-romana.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2007 at 23:36
Imperial success in today's world is more to do with competitive economic advantage, security etc. than with sending colonists out to take over a patch of land.
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  Quote aslanlar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2007 at 05:53
But is it imperial success or just a strong nation. Will the world look back apon the 'great USA' 1000 years from now for all the changes it has brang in the world. It's a point in time where history will completely change (for me anyway)
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2007 at 18:20
The USA has the ability to deploy her power across the globe, control and manipulate other nations, and take control of others' resources for her own benefit. This is imperialism without the previous necessity of occupying another country (which she sometimes does also).

The past 60 years have seen a massive shift away from occupying other nations, which may be seen as a good thing.
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  Quote Jagiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2007 at 06:45
Of course there will be a future empire.The biggest one.The empire of humanity thet will consist of all nations,countries and people on Earth and outside it.Big%20smile
 
PS Each country will have it's government but the supreme power will be in the hands of the "Emperor of Poland and all humanity" - me.Wink
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2007 at 08:48
An empire - by definition - is where one nation has domination over other nations to a very considerable level.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2007 at 15:14
It doesn't have to be one nation having power over others. The Chinese Empire - while it did from time to time rule over non-Chinese populations - gets its title from sheer size. Even the HRE was essentially a German empire (you could take away the occsional peripheral non-German territories and it would still be the HRE.
 
It's more that one individual must have formal authority over otherwise sovereign princes. They can all be the same nation.
 
Of course, that depends somewhat on what you mean by 'nation'. Moreover you can't have an empire without an emperor (or empress) any more than you can have a kingdom without a king (or queen).
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  Quote Laine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2007 at 18:48
The USA by its very nature is an Imperial power. The land this nation occupies was that of other nations and people and yet the United States is the result of such colonalism. It still retains power over subject Native peoples and has yet to grant all that was promised in the treaties that were written.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2007 at 19:36
Originally posted by gcle2003

It doesn't have to be one nation having power over others. The Chinese Empire - while it did from time to time rule over non-Chinese populations - gets its title from sheer size. Even the HRE was essentially a German empire (you could take away the occsional peripheral non-German territories and it would still be the HRE.


HRE and China were indeed usually pretty ethnically homogeneous - as much as we can apply the idea of the ethnos to ancient and medieval peoples. I always considered China an empire because of the hegemonic role she occupied in East Asia - she sat atop a recognised hierarchy of nations regulated by tributary arrangements and she was also the main intellectual, cultural and military power in the region by far.

The HRE was quite similar, a powerhouse in a range of significant ways which, when combined with its sheer size, earned it the title of Empire.

Sheer size on its own won't make an empire. If that were so, Canada, Brazil and Australia would all be considered modern empires - but of course nodody thinks of them that way. I think that when the size is complemented by the profusion of military, intellectual and cultural achievements typical of an empire, that is when a "big nation" is reclassified as Empire.
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  Quote Jagiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2007 at 08:18
Originally posted by Constantine XI

An empire - by definition - is where one nation has domination over other nations to a very considerable level.
 
Well,as i'll be a POLISH emperor guess which nation will have domination over others.Wink 
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2007 at 10:39
Originally posted by Constantine XI

Originally posted by gcle2003

It doesn't have to be one nation having power over others. The Chinese Empire - while it did from time to time rule over non-Chinese populations - gets its title from sheer size. Even the HRE was essentially a German empire (you could take away the occsional peripheral non-German territories and it would still be the HRE.


HRE and China were indeed usually pretty ethnically homogeneous - as much as we can apply the idea of the ethnos to ancient and medieval peoples. I always considered China an empire because of the hegemonic role she occupied in East Asia - she sat atop a recognised hierarchy of nations regulated by tributary arrangements and she was also the main intellectual, cultural and military power in the region by far.

The HRE was quite similar, a powerhouse in a range of significant ways which, when combined with its sheer size, earned it the title of Empire.

Sheer size on its own won't make an empire. If that were so, Canada, Brazil and Australia would all be considered modern empires - but of course nodody thinks of them that way. I think that when the size is complemented by the profusion of military, intellectual and cultural achievements typical of an empire, that is when a "big nation" is reclassified as Empire.
It gets confusing because countries can be officially 'empires' without meeting any of these requirements. Japan was an 'empire' with an 'emperor' even in the centuries of near-isolation. Brazil in fact was officially an 'empire' with an 'emperor' in the early nineteenth century. Even overlooking the HRE (the first Reich) the Second Reich and the Third were both empires when they only controlled a single - to modern eyes - country, though only one had - officially - an emperor.
 
We need another word.
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  Quote kurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2007 at 22:56
i believe, now that there is a new rivalry occuring in the form of china-india-america-europeon union, we will see a new colonialist race, only the colonies in question will be the moon and mars, and after that the other planets and moons in our solar system. right now india and the europeon union don't seem that interested in the space race, but it is beginning again between china and america, who are reviving their space programs. the question is: who will win the favour of russia and kazakhstan and thus use their existing knowledge and technology in this space race. whoever does, wins.
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  Quote just me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 06:14

isnt it true that one of the cruxes concerning the initiation of world war one was the power-thirsty instincts of nations to colonize and imperialize? the devastation which followed said colonisation is further proof that we can only hope that colonisation is a practise of the past which may never and will never be resurrected. clearly self-determination was a fortifying factor in wilson's all-too idealistic points, however he had the correct idea in mind; freedom to decision is all all our constitutions and thus should be acted upon accordingly.

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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 19:40
Originally posted by Constantine XI

The USA has the ability to deploy her power across the globe, control and manipulate other nations, and take control of others' resources for her own benefit. This is imperialism without the previous necessity of occupying another country (which she sometimes does also).

The past 60 years have seen a massive shift away from occupying other nations, which may be seen as a good thing.


I agree 100%. In that sense we can talk about Pax Americana, though the term "Pax" (peace) is rather not applicable in this case.
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
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  Quote ChickenShoes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 00:02
I often wish empires still existed.
It is not enough that I succeed - everyone else must fail
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  Quote Socom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 20:50
Originally posted by kurt

i believe, now that there is a new rivalry occuring in the form of china-india-america-europeon union, we will see a new colonialist race, only the colonies in question will be the moon and mars, and after that the other planets and moons in our solar system. right now india and the europeon union don't seem that interested in the space race, but it is beginning again between china and america, who are reviving their space programs. the question is: who will win the favour of russia and kazakhstan and thus use their existing knowledge and technology in this space race. whoever does, wins.


I don't really believe that the space race is really on the top of any country's agenda. Whichever country does make it back up in space again first really won't have much to brag about. First, the United States and the USSR already sent men up to the moon and the United States looked at Mars a bit. Also, as of yet, the planets don't have any resource thats worth competing for and missions to space will most likely be solely for research. Nations like China just want to get up in space to show off their technological advances and flex their muscles.
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  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 03:55
Wasn't aware the USSR had sent men to the moon
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  Quote kurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 07:15
Originally posted by Socom

Originally posted by kurt

i believe, now that there is a new rivalry occuring in the form of china-india-america-europeon union, we will see a new colonialist race, only the colonies in question will be the moon and mars, and after that the other planets and moons in our solar system. right now india and the europeon union don't seem that interested in the space race, but it is beginning again between china and america, who are reviving their space programs. the question is: who will win the favour of russia and kazakhstan and thus use their existing knowledge and technology in this space race. whoever does, wins.


I don't really believe that the space race is really on the top of any country's agenda. Whichever country does make it back up in space again first really won't have much to brag about. First, the United States and the USSR already sent men up to the moon and the United States looked at Mars a bit. Also, as of yet, the planets don't have any resource thats worth competing for and missions to space will most likely be solely for research. Nations like China just want to get up in space to show off their technological advances and flex their muscles.
 
A lot of good points there, and its true that space isn't at the top of anyone's agenda, but your ignoring something vital. When reserves of resources are depleted, we, the human race, must look elsewhere for new reserves or settle upon a new type of resource. Like you said, as of yet, there aren't too many resources in space which concern the nations of today, but when resources on this planet are depleted, it is by nature we will look into space, with its uncomprehendable vastness and hence immense potential. It is merely a matter of time, although your right, nations of today aren't concerned - yet.
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