Satan: Is he all bad?

I never understood how christians thing taht the Devil hates God and wants to take his throne

He jsut realy realy Hates us

JanusRook thanks for the info....

No problem, currently I'm actually researching the Fall of the Angels so this is actually quite relevant to me right now.

Christians don't think Satan hates God and whants his throne.

Some do.

Satan hates us because we are God's favourite and that's why tries to corrupt us so that he can torture us later in Hell.

I'd disagree with you here.

Satan isn't as petty as to hate us because of a mere spoiled child jealousy complex. At the creation of the universe God commanded all of the angelic host to only have one master, himself. Then God created mankind, and upon his creation he ordered all of the angels to serve and bow to mankind. Satan refused because he was loyal to the first oath he made to God, and his role on earth is to prove that humanity does not deserve the angels. In essence what Satan wants to do is to have the angels be elevated in status higher than man, this is the pride in his fall.

Satan does not wish to torture mankind, he could care less about us. Many of eurasia's old pagan gods of death tortured mankind, and this is where mythologies get confused.

Originally posted by JanusRook    JanusRook thanks for the info.... No problem, currently I'm actually researching the Fall of the Angels so this is actually quite relevant to me right now.    Christians don't think Satan hates God and whants his throne. Some do. Satan hates us because we are God's favourite and that's why tries to corrupt us so that he can torture us later in Hell. I'd disagree with you here.Satan isn't as petty as to hate us because of a mere spoiled child jealousy complex. At the creation of the universe God commanded all of the angelic host to only have one master, himself. Then God created mankind, and upon his creation he ordered all of the angels to serve and bow to mankind. Satan refused because he was loyal to the first oath he made to God, and his role on earth is to prove that humanity does not deserve the angels. In essence what Satan wants to do is to have the angels be elevated in status higher than man, this is the pride in his fall.Satan does not wish to torture mankind, he could care less about us. Many of eurasia's old pagan gods of death tortured mankind, and this is where mythologies get confused.

From what you said one can really think Satan isn't all bad.

Originally posted by Jagiello Christians don't think Satan hates God and whants his throne.This sound to me like a greek tragedy.God doesn't have a throne or a palace or something.God is considered to be the creator of everything and he can't be defeated or his power taken like the greek,egyptian and other god's do.Satan is infact an Angel that has turned away from the light of God.He doesn't hate him he just opposes him and what he says.Satan hates us because we are God's favourite and that's why tries to corrupt us so that he can torture us later in Hell.

whats all that hell on earth stuff and the anti-christ

war in heaven etc....

Originally posted by Aelfgifu I have wondered about that. If god is supposedly all powerful, surely he would not have allowed a Satan full of evil to exist. Unless of course, Satan is in gods employment, existing with gods approval, and working his will. Sort of the one to call for the dirty jobs. And on the other hand, if Satan is the true enemy of god, than surely god cannot be all-powerful, and therefore seems no more worthy of worship than, for example, Satan, or any other mysterical entity of ones choosing.   So the existance of a Satan withing Christianity either means god does not have only good intentions, or it means god is a fraud.

Well, god told Bush to invade Iraq and kill a million people directly and indirectly so he must be bad.

Janus, how do you figure in the other Satan-like characters - Beelzebub, Lucifer....different beings or different names for the same ones?

Personally, I believe that the fallen angels aren't a unified force so those mentioned are separate beings. I believe that different factions fell from God's grace due to separate acts.

The first faction and largest I would believe would be those that followed Satan's lead. Before the fall Satan was the highest angel, he would have been seen as the leader of the angels if they had a leader besides God. I also hold to the belief that he was the first angel created by God. These angels fell because they find humans ugly creatures, who kill, steal, rape and commit other atrocities and thus have no place being in God's heavenly light (to give an analogy, think Fundamentalist Baptists ministers are to Homosexuals what Satan's angels are to humans).

The second faction I believe are those angels that believe humans are greater than they are because God has decreed this, and thus keeping in that mentality they believed that if humans could only intercede on Satan's behalf, that God would forgive him and the angels would once again have their greatest amongst them again. The reason for their falling is because they go against God's plans in order to bring humanity to God before they are ready. The reasoning behind this is the story of the Forbidden Fruit, the Serpent wanted Adam and Eve to be "like God" so that they could speak to him on a level that the angels could never do. Needless to say this backfired because we weren't ready to eat of the forbidden fruit.

The third faction I have thought of are the Grigori or the Watchers, they were sent on earth to watch over humanity, but soon grew to find us beautiful. These angels went against God's plan by laying with women and creating the Nephilim. Thus their children were killed by God and they were cast out of heaven.

These are the only factions I've come up with so far although my knowledge on the Bible is only rudimentary and my angelology is very basic. And who said that Christian mythology was lacking compared to pagan mythology?

Do humans become angels when they die, because I always heard that when I was little.

No, well some heterodox churches allow worshipers to believe this (I am unaware if it is cannon in any church). Whereas more orthodox churches believe that human souls are a separate thing than angelic beings.

I believe the mistake in that belief is the confusion between guardian angels and the belief that the dead can intercede in heaven on our behalf.

And how come god shows favoritism with his creations? It's almost as though he made angel 2.0 as humans, but created us falliable still.

You have to put it in perspective, God does not obey the laws of time and space, thus their is no "improved" model. God created everything at the exact same time in it's most perfect state. It's our perception of his reality that is skewed.

That being said....the angels were created to serve humanity, period. Human beings were intended to be made in God's most perfect image. The difference between us is that since we exist in time we can be redeemed, whereas angels are timeless and thus their thoughts exist in an almost infinity loop.

In the Islamic view Satan is not as evil, nor as powerful, rather a nuissance that can distract you from doing good if you listen to him, however, he is not viewed in the same dualist view, he has no powers, he has no might, he is just a fallen Angel.

I had heard that this view came from pre-Islamic times, and that he is a Djinn spirit, as are all angels, is this incorrect? Also is Iblis a pre-Islamic or post-Islamic name for the devil?

Sufis usually see Satan as the ultimate monotheist that is the ultimate believer in one true God who only bows down to him and only him, therefore, when he refused to bow down to Adam, he fell, however, they view it not as due to jelousy, but because as the ultimate servant of God, the ultimate believer in God he refused to bow down to anyone but God. In their view he risked everything to worship God.

This is basically my view, however I believe the error is in refusing God's command to bow before humanity.

The return of Christ" but it's not sure when it will be written.

It was first published in 1830 :

Actually I'm waiting for the prequel that explains how God was created, and the rest of the universe apart from heaven and earth.

It was written in 1968 :

One on-going aspect that most people I meet are confused with in relation to the whole "good vs. evil" or "God vs satan" thing is that they find it odd that if God is so powerful how is it he can even have an opponent? How can satan even challenge the great God?

For me its like prometheus.

Zeus says humanity must end
(satan)Prometheus loves them too much and saves them getting punished
Then after millenia hercules releases him.        

In the christian tradition  the rebel is evil and bad.In the pagan the rebel had a chance.

I think the Bible is really a propaganda book written by God. You see, Satan was really the good guy, but God had to screw everything up, embrace acts of genocide, so Satan left him. I mean, of course the evil guy is going to predict his own victory. I mean, for crying out loud, a united world would only sound like a bad idea to a propagandist.