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The Brusilov and Kerenski offensives

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  Quote dark_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Brusilov and Kerenski offensives
    Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 20:57
 All I know about them is that they destroyed Austria Hungary and that they wer eled by Brusilov. If anyone has history of the campaigns (maps greatly appreciated) I ask that you post them here.
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 01:22
I can tell you the tactics used by the initial offensives by Brusilov were then copied by the Germnans to become the vaunted stormtrooper tactics, which Germany for some reason gets credit for
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  Quote dark_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 14:28
 That has to do with how much mroe effectiv ethe Germans' use of the tactics was. Russiant roops ran out of ammo. The first time the Result was the February revolution. The second offensive even Brusilov turned on Russia, Kornilov marched upon Petrograd, huge riots and demonstrations errupted, the Russian army got up and ran back int he direction of Moscow and the Germans and Austrians ddn't even bother to chase us and then the October Revolution. Ironically there was enough ammo for the front, but it didn't get there. That ammo was used byt he Bolsheviks to fight the entire civil war.
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  Quote dark_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2005 at 15:03
 Come on I really need to know this stuff
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  Quote Sikander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 16:12
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 04:19

 

edited for racism! Poster banned!



Edited by Yiannis
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  Quote Teup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 04:45
What does Microsoft Windows have to do with this?
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  Quote Sikander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 10:34

Oh, and look for Osprey' "The Russian Army 1914-19182. In the final pages it has something about he Brusilov Ofensive which, by the way, was trully devastating. If the Rusians had had a good supply system in order to keep the ofensive going on for some 4 more mounths, the austrians would have been knocked out of the war.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 13:42
CONTENT REMOVED


Edited by MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli
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  Quote white dragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 16:18
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The Russian Army 1914-19182
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whoa!! The kinda a broad topic huh
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  Quote dark_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 16:26
 Yeah. thankfully the czar was killed and Brusilov served in the Red Army helping the civil war end quicker (reds would ahve won anyway).
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  Quote Jonathan4290 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2008 at 15:25
I'm doing a study on insurgencies and am looking for a good back on the Russian Revolution and Lenin's strategies as a whole. Any suggestions?? It needs to have an English translation though, I'm learning Russian but I'm not THAT fluent.
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  Quote deadkenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2008 at 12:03
Originally posted by Tobodai

I can tell you the tactics used by the initial offensives by Brusilov were then copied by the Germnans to become the vaunted stormtrooper tactics, which Germany for some reason gets credit for


No, this is false.  The Germans didn't 'copy' their inflitration tactics from the Russians, or anyone else for that matter.  The Germans were already experimenting with these tactics themselves in 1915, albeit on a small scale.  The Germans increased the scale of their use in 1916, at Verdun and finally used them on a large scale against the Italians and Russians in 1917.  Their final use was in the western offensives in 1918.
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  Quote deadkenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2008 at 12:05
Originally posted by Jonathan4290

I'm doing a study on insurgencies and am looking for a good back on the Russian Revolution and Lenin's strategies as a whole. Any suggestions?? It needs to have an English translation though, I'm learning Russian but I'm not THAT fluent.


Are in interested in the period prior to and up to the overthrow of the Tsarist and 'Parliamentary' governments?  Or are you interested in the later 'consolidation' of power?
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  Quote deadkenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2008 at 12:16
Originally posted by dark_one

 All I know about them is that they destroyed Austria Hungary and that they wer eled by Brusilov. If anyone has history of the campaigns (maps greatly appreciated) I ask that you post them here.


Two separate offensives with different effects.  The Brusilov Offensive in 1916 did succeed in inflicting a crushing defeat on Austria-Hungary.  It further succeeded in forcing Germany to cease their concentration on the west and shift forces east in order to prop up their ally.  On the other hand it was a bit of a two edged sword as far as its effects, as ultimately the Russian offensive was stopped (with German intervention) and the Russians suffered massive losses themselves.  At that point AH was crippled, but not knocked out of the war and the Russians themselves were hurt badly.

The Kerensky Offensive was much worse for the Russians.  Although it was intended, and initially achieved some success, in targeting the Austro-Hungarians, it achieved far less than the Brusilov Offensive in terms of inflicting damage on AH forces.  On the other hand, the combined German and A-H forces stopped the Russians much more quickly in 1917 than they had in 1916, and in turn inflicted a significant defeat upon the Russians.

The Brusilov Offensive is viewed as a Russian success, although at a heavy cost, in that it achieved the strategic objectives of inflicting a defeat on A-H and forcing Germany to shift forces from their western offensive to the east.  The Kerensky Offensive is viewed as a defeat, as it achieved little positive result, but was the beginning of the end of Russian participation in the war.
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  Quote Jonathan4290 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2008 at 14:57
Originally posted by deadkenny

Originally posted by Jonathan4290

I'm doing a study on insurgencies and am looking for a good back on the Russian Revolution and Lenin's strategies as a whole. Any suggestions?? It needs to have an English translation though, I'm learning Russian but I'm not THAT fluent.


Are in interested in the period prior to and up to the overthrow of the Tsarist and 'Parliamentary' governments?  Or are you interested in the later 'consolidation' of power?
 
More so prior. The later consolidation of power would refer to the full-scale war right? I'm definitely looking to study the growth of the Communist movement before the war but specifically in Russia. Any suggestions would be helpful however.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2008 at 19:19
Originally posted by deadkenny



Two separate offensives with different effects.  The Brusilov Offensive in 1916 did succeed in inflicting a crushing defeat on Austria-Hungary.  It further succeeded in forcing Germany to cease their concentration on the west and shift forces east in order to prop up their ally.  On the other hand it was a bit of a two edged sword as far as its effects, as ultimately the Russian offensive was stopped (with German intervention) and the Russians suffered massive losses themselves.  At that point AH was crippled, but not knocked out of the war and the Russians themselves were hurt badly.

The Kerensky Offensive was much worse for the Russians.  Although it was intended, and initially achieved some success, in targeting the Austro-Hungarians, it achieved far less than the Brusilov Offensive in terms of inflicting damage on AH forces.  On the other hand, the combined German and A-H forces stopped the Russians much more quickly in 1917 than they had in 1916, and in turn inflicted a significant defeat upon the Russians.

The Brusilov Offensive is viewed as a Russian success, although at a heavy cost, in that it achieved the strategic objectives of inflicting a defeat on A-H and forcing Germany to shift forces from their western offensive to the east.  The Kerensky Offensive is viewed as a defeat, as it achieved little positive result, but was the beginning of the end of Russian participation in the war.


actually the whole point of the Brusilov offensive was to call of the K.u.K. offensive in Italy, which suceeded.
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  Quote deadkenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2008 at 01:13
Originally posted by Jonathan4290

More so prior. The later consolidation of power would refer to the full-scale war right? I'm definitely looking to study the growth of the Communist movement before the war but specifically in Russia. Any suggestions would be helpful however.
 
Yes, the 'consolidation' period would run into the Civil War.  For the revolution itself you might want to check out "Ten Days that Shook the World" by Reed. 
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2008 at 05:45
One can hardly compare Brusilov's offensive which was one of the most succesful operation of the whole WWI with Kerensky's offensive which actually was a big joke. At that time the famous order number 1 was in effect in the Russian army. It basically meant that the soldiers could refuse to attack should they will to do so. The offensive basically stoped after the first two lines of thenches of the Austro-German defences were crossed simply because the soldiers didn't want to continue the attack. Russian army at that point was a mob of armed and disorganized people rather than an effective fighting force.
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  Quote Challenger2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2008 at 17:29
Originally posted by deadkenny

Originally posted by Tobodai

I can tell you the tactics used by the initial offensives by Brusilov were then copied by the Germnans to become the vaunted stormtrooper tactics, which Germany for some reason gets credit for


No, this is false.  The Germans didn't 'copy' their inflitration tactics from the Russians, or anyone else for that matter...


You keep saying this without offering any evidence to support your theory. Care to elaborate?

BTW been away for a while, but I vaguely recall I was to respond to one of your posts, but can't remember where. Confused


Edited by Challenger2 - 18-Mar-2008 at 17:31
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