Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Rumble in Tallinn
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 9>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Kalevipoeg View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 06-Aug-2004
Location: Estonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1458 		  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rumble in Tallinn
    Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 20:58
"So the phrase about ass-licking is probably from independent Estonian TV then LOL"

More from you in this discussion.
The Estonian TV has no state interference and i am proud of that. Estonian journalists die of old age, not for writing a few lines some authoritarian doesn't like as is in Russia. Estonian press is more neutral than Russian on this matter because they don't have the state controlling their activities. Any disagreements?
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 22:26
Originally posted by Kalevipoeg

Any disagreements?
 
Of course not. Who am I to judge Estonian TV, Estonian books and so on?If you believe them, then everything's fine. This is your country not mine.
.
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 22:32
Originally posted by DukeC

 
...Putin has resurrected that tradition. Reporters that don't treat the government with kid gloves tend to have bad things happen to them.
Oh yeah, bloody KGB hands are on the neck of every poor Russian.  LOL
.
Back to Top
DukeC View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 07-Nov-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1564 		  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 02:28
Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by DukeC

 
...Putin has resurrected that tradition. Reporters that don't treat the government with kid gloves tend to have bad things happen to them.
Oh yeah, bloody KGB hands are on the neck of every poor Russian.  LOL
 
You tell me how many thousands met their end with a bullet from the secret police in the base of the skull. I got to hear about what these sick ***** did to people first hand from a man that had to leave his life in Hungary behind.
 
If you think this is funny then you're not worth communicating with.


Edited by DukeC - 29-Apr-2007 at 02:46
Back to Top
Krum View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 25-Oct-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 412 		  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 04:26
Originally posted by DukeC

Putin has resurrected that tradition. Reporters that don't treat the government with kid gloves tend to have bad things happen to them.





What proof do you have that this statement is true?Are you sure that Putin ordered those killings?Have you been in russia,do you know some secret information that we dont or may be you work in CIA?
It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
Plato
Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Imperial Ambassador

Joined: 06-May-2006
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1144 		  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 06:02
Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by Majkes

God forgive Him his ignorance.
Poland beat Soviet Russia in 1920 in the Battle of Warsaw. Over 1.000.000 Russian army was beaten by smaller Polish one ( app. 800.000 )
Actually it is not ignorance. I just wanted to mention that in this particular time Russia fighted in many many different fronts.
 
 
 
 
I'm talking that Russians created international crisis because some tenagers were fighting. And whose ambassador was beaten ?? Polish guys violated Russian law?? What are You talking about? It was Poland few teenagers beat other few teenagers. What does it have to do with breaking Russain law?? I think You don't know what I'm talking aboutConfused.
 
Sorry they were not diplomats indeed. They were kids of Russian diplomats. I don't know whether families of the diplomats aresubject of the same laws as diplomats themselves.  
 
 
Well we have in the centre of Warsaw monument of Russian soldiers. We call it " Four Sleeping" ( it is because they waited as Warsaw will be slaughtered by Germans and did nothing meanwhile ). We don't want to remove it. I imagine what Russian goverment would say. But it is diffrent situation in Poland. Russians freed Poland from much worse Nazi regime so we should be thankfull for this but in Baltic case it is diffrent they were fred from Nazis but Comunist SU wasn't any better for them if not worse so why they should be greatfull for this?
I told you, they shouldn't. However since they removed it they must expect a reaction from Russia.
 
1. Poland was also fighting at many fronts but in the moment of 1920 War Russia and Poland fought only each other. I don't count rests of Whites in Russia and Czechs who invaded Poland using opportunity.
2. They were kids of Russians working in Embassy if I remember well not diplomats but I'm not 100% sure.
 
Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Imperial Ambassador

Joined: 06-May-2006
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1144 		  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 06:08
Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by Majkes

That's a good one. Russian tv is really well known from independent thinkingLOL.
 
Russian TV is well know for its DEPENDENT thinking. However if you think CNN or BBC or any Polish TV is more independent you missed something in this life Tongue
 
There is a diffrence though that Polish or Estoinian tv critisize its own goverment and don't follow all their actions and Russian tv is totally dependent from Putin. Maybe You didn't follow the process of free media liquidation in Russia but there are not many free medias ( independent from goverment ) left there. 
That all the media in the world often show idiotism and are stupid is diffrent case. My opinion about jurnalists is that they are those who wouldn' t get real job. This is not about all of course.
Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Imperial Ambassador

Joined: 06-May-2006
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1144 		  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 06:14
[/QUOTE]
 
Oh, I see. So, this means that Germany and France are more "ass-lickers" then Estonia? LOL My friend, if keeping good relations is "ass-licking" than Estonia is a kind of ass-licker. It just changed the ass. Do you like such an explanation? I don't.
[/QUOTE]
 
Russia just don't treat Estonia or other East EU countries as partners. They expect they would do what Russian interest need, nothing more. They have good realations with France or Germany because they need them. Besides there aren't big historical problems between them. They don't have any reasons to blame Russia for the past so their relations are more easy. They also need Germany and France to balance US. Russians are not dumb the contrary their diplomacy is world's best.
Back to Top
Jagiello View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 08-Feb-2007
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 316 		  Quote Jagiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 06:16
Originally posted by Krum

Originally posted by DukeC

Putin has resurrected that tradition. Reporters that don't treat the government with kid gloves tend to have bad things happen to them.





What proof do you have that this statement is true?Are you sure that Putin ordered those killings?Have you been in russia,do you know some secret information that we dont or may be you work in CIA?



Is this a joke or you're playing stupid?You're reacting exactly as someone that doesn't want to accept the truth(that Putin orders those murders).You don't need to be an agent of CIA to realise why reporters that tend to write against the government of Putin suddenly die.Or maybe Putin is such a good man that can't do this?But ofcourse!!KGB officers are real saints!! They never harm anyone that is against the government.It is not their policy to murder the oposition.Please,tell me how old are you?Because obviously you don't remember how DS worked in Bulgaria.6oto az pomnq.
Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Imperial Ambassador

Joined: 06-May-2006
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1144 		  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 06:17
Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by axeman


Well US, British and Polish media are way more "independent" than Russian ones. Link to press freedom index. Look up fore your mentioned states.
So Majkes certainly hasn't missed something in his life.
 
One cannot be slightly pregnant. There is no less or more free TV. Either it is free or not. All freedom indexes are crap. If you want to know the truth listen both sides. I thought these truths are kind of obvious Wink
 
And You hear both sides? Sure.
I have a question to You Anton. I hope You didn't remove any signs of Turkish occupation in Bulgaria. You could really offend them. Maybe some Turkish members would inform us about it?
Back to Top
Krum View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 25-Oct-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 412 		  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 09:08
Originally posted by Jagiello

Originally posted by Krum

Originally posted by DukeC

Putin has resurrected that tradition. Reporters that don't treat the government with kid gloves tend to have bad things happen to them.





What proof do you have that this statement is true?Are you sure that Putin ordered those killings?Have you been in russia,do you know some secret information that we dont or may be you work in CIA?

Is this a joke or you're playing stupid?You're reacting exactly as someone that doesn't want to accept the truth(that Putin orders those murders).You don't need to be an agent of CIA to realise why reporters that tend to write against the government of Putin suddenly die.Or maybe Putin is such a good man that can't do this?But ofcourse!!KGB officers are real saints!! They never harm anyone that is against the government.It is not their policy to murder the oposition.Please,tell me how old are you?Because obviously you don't remember how DS worked in Bulgaria.6oto az pomnq.


But now there isnt DS,there isnt KGB.Just think deep about it.Why Putin will order those murders when they will harm his prestige and the reputation of the russian government(if there is any left?This is not the soviet era when everything was hiddent,every single murder is reported by foreign medias.If you are not 100% sure and dont have any evidences then that statement might be false.On the other hand i cant deny the reputation of ex communist security services and we all knew that FSB is the same like KGB.
It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
Plato
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 10:34
Originally posted by Majkes

 
And You hear both sides? Sure.
Atleast I try to. And that is why I think that it is internal choise of Estonia to remove any statues they want.
 
 
I have a question to You Anton. I hope You didn't remove any signs of Turkish occupation in Bulgaria. You could really offend them. Maybe some Turkish members would inform us about it?
Again, you didn't get my point. I am not against removal of Estonian statues. I just don't understand all that burking around Russia -- their freedom of speech, KGB leaders and all that crappy stuff. It is THEIR INTERNAL RIGHT, just as Estoniian right to remove some statues. And also, when Russia will increase the oil prices for Estonia again or not allow to sell (sorry Majkes) rotten pork in Russian market it will be considered as a "revenge". These hysterias are kind of games on a state levels and I am surprised why many people far from being lumpens don't realize that. The same is related to Russia -- histery there (about Georgia, Estonia, Ukraina etc.) is artificial. All talks abhout "revenge", "ass-licking", "bloody hands of KGB", "prostituting small countries" (talks in Russia) are for 13 years old kids.
 
As for Bulogaria-- I suppose there were many removals of Turkish signs but they were mostly after the Liberation. If you want to hear my reaction -- it would be negative, because it is the history of our country, whether we like it or not.
.
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 10:45
Originally posted by Majkes

Russia just don't treat Estonia or other East EU countries as partners. They expect they would do what Russian interest need, nothing more.
First of all, it is kind of normal that countries expect other contries to do what their interest need. Big and rich countries have better ways in pursuading small countries. Second, don't tell me that big EU countries (Germany, France) treat small countries as equall partners.
 
Besides there aren't big historical problems between them.
That's the key phrase. And I don't understand how could historical problems influence the diplomacy. A country has present particular interests all problems in the past should not be considered.
.
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 10:53
Originally posted by Jagiello

Is this a joke or you're playing stupid?You're reacting exactly as someone that doesn't want to accept the truth(that Putin orders those murders).
 
All "evidences" about Putin are based on the principle "quid prodest". However it was "prodest" also western countries -- since Russian attempts to play more and more major role in geopolitics. So, that might easelly be "podstava". You will never know the truth. Which means that you accuse sovereign and independent country by offending it leader. Dead
.
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 11:04
Originally posted by DukeC

 
You tell me how many thousands met their end with a bullet from the secret police in the base of the skull. I got to hear about what these sick ***** did to people first hand from a man that had to leave his life in Hungary behind.
 
If you think this is funny then you're not worth communicating with.
 
No I don't find it funny. However what I don't find funny at all, is when someone who never lived in Soviet Union explains us what was that. What I don't find funny is when a guy speaks about thousands of killings in Russia somehow forgets that his own imbicile leader created two wars that caused death of thousands people. I don't find funny the burking around democracy in Russia from the countries who support much more radical regimes than that of Russia (some of them even with nuclear power). What I don't find funny is a criticism of freedom of speech in Russia from countries where reporters are fired for writing articles against war in Iraq. All that crap is called "double standart" and I don't find it funny whether it is Russian, American or European.


Edited by Anton - 29-Apr-2007 at 11:21
.
Back to Top
DukeC View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 07-Nov-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1564 		  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 12:12
Originally posted by Anton

 
No I don't find it funny. However what I don't find funny at all, is when someone who never lived in Soviet Union explains us what was that. What I don't find funny is when a guy speaks about thousands of killings in Russia somehow forgets that his own imbicile leader created two wars that caused death of thousands people. I don't find funny the burking around democracy in Russia from the countries who support much more radical regimes than that of Russia (some of them even with nuclear power). What I don't find funny is a criticism of freedom of speech in Russia from countries where reporters are fired for writing articles against war in Iraq. All that crap is called "double standart" and I don't find it funny whether it is Russian, American or European.
 
I didn't have to live in the Soviet Union to know what a dysfunctional society it was, there's something called history to teach me that. The leaders of my countries didn't start any wars, but we sure helped end them.
 
What were the Soviets up to last century? They made certain the German was machine was rebuilt by giving them facilities and support to research the weapons and tactics they would use to roll over most of Europe and North Africa. Then Stalin helped Hitler rape Poland while gobling up the Baltic states. Ever hear of a little thing called Katyn Forest Massacre where the Soviets murdered 50,000 Polish officers. How dare you criticise Eastern Europeans here for their attitudes towards Russia after all the killing done there in the name of Soviet rule.
 
At least our reporter don't die of acute lead poisoning like Anna Politkovskaya did because she tried to write about what's going on in Chechnia. Putin is the hypocrit for criticing Bush while doing the same thing himself.
 
edit- correction on the number of Polish in the Katyn Massacre. The figure should be 25,000 not 50,000 which refers to the number of his own officers that Stalin had murdered. It says it all about recent Russian history that the hardest part is keeping track of all the mass killings there. Now was it 2.2 million Kulaks murdered or 2.5.Dead 
 
 


Edited by DukeC - 29-Apr-2007 at 13:02
Back to Top
DukeC View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 07-Nov-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1564 		  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 12:27
Originally posted by Krum

 
What proof do you have that this statement is true?Are you sure that Putin ordered those killings?Have you been in russia,do you know some secret information that we dont or may be you work in CIA?
 
You're right, I'm sure that whoever hit Litvinecko, just went to the corner chemists to pick up some Polonium-210, a very rare substance used mostly in nuclear weapons design. I read the news and there's a number of very interesting coincidences that seem to happen to people that stand in the way of Ptuin and what he wants. Did I see an FSB agent slip some Polonium into Litvinenkos tea, of course not. British police found traces of it all over locations in London associated with the FSB agents believed to have carried out the attack. Was I there when the FSB agents loaded hundreds of pounds of explosives into the basements of the two Moscow apartment buildings, nope. But what Litvinenko said makes a lot more sense to me than what the Russian government is claiming, and it got him killed. Yushenko seems to be pretty convinced that he was poisoned by the Russians to stop his agenda in the Ukraine. But hey, I'm sure these are all just coincidences and the other stuff too. Putin is really a wonderful guy, we all know just what fun loving and caring people the coldblooded killers were that the KGB recruited to operate one of the most repressive and violent organizations to have existed in the world.
 
 
 
Back to Top
Jagiello View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 08-Feb-2007
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 316 		  Quote Jagiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 12:33
Originally posted by Krum

Originally posted by Jagiello

Originally posted by Krum

Originally posted by DukeC

Putin has resurrected that tradition. Reporters that don't treat the government with kid gloves tend to have bad things happen to them.





What proof do you have that this statement is true?Are you sure that Putin ordered those killings?Have you been in russia,do you know some secret information that we dont or may be you work in CIA?

Is this a joke or you're playing stupid?You're reacting exactly as someone that doesn't want to accept the truth(that Putin orders those murders).You don't need to be an agent of CIA to realise why reporters that tend to write against the government of Putin suddenly die.Or maybe Putin is such a good man that can't do this?But ofcourse!!KGB officers are real saints!! They never harm anyone that is against the government.It is not their policy to murder the oposition.Please,tell me how old are you?Because obviously you don't remember how DS worked in Bulgaria.6oto az pomnq.


But now there isnt DS,there isnt KGB.Just think deep about it.Why Putin will order those murders when they will harm his prestige and the reputation of the russian government(if there is any left?This is not the soviet era when everything was hiddent,every single murder is reported by foreign medias.If you are not 100% sure and dont have any evidences then that statement might be false.On the other hand i cant deny the reputation of ex communist security services and we all knew that FSB is the same like KGB.


By you're logic everything that isn't 100% in history is false.Than maybe there really wasn't a Batak massacre because we can't be 100% sure,as with almost every historical event.We however are sure that it happened due to the reputation the Turks had of "nice treatment to rebels".Yes,the Batak massacre is a historical event and the murders of those reporters aren't but it's you're logic that everything that isn't 100% sure is false.Putin,like all ex-KGB officers has a reputation.Yes,everybody is innocent before prooving the opposite and you can defend him if you want but it's not hard to guess if he is innocent or not.
Back to Top
Jagiello View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 08-Feb-2007
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 316 		  Quote Jagiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 12:49
Krum,Anton in Bulgaria it is common for children in 4th or even 2nd grade to hate turks when they learn 1/10 from what they did to bulgarians.The russians did 100 times worst things to eastern europeans and you can't understand why we don't like them.You say it is funny how we talk of "revenge" or "ex-KGB officers" when you're grandfather wasn't in a soviet concentration camp and you're great-grandfather didn't die fighting the russians in 1920,as my did.So please,don't offend us with you're ignorance.Yes,you're either not-informed of all that the russians have been doing in eastern Europe for 300 years or simply communist.I doubt you're communist.

Edited by Jagiello - 29-Apr-2007 at 12:55
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2007 at 12:55
Originally posted by DukeC

 
 
Then Stalin helped Hitler rape Poland while gobling up the Baltic states.
Sure, and then brave American soldiers came and won Hitler LOL
 
 
 
 
 How dare you criticise Eastern Europeans here for their attitudes towards Russia after all the killing done there in the name of Soviet rule.
I do not criticize Eastern countries. I criticize countries like yours -- you dare to criticize Russians after Hirosima and Nagasaki, Dresden, carpet bombing of Vietnam, wars in Afganistan and Iraq etc.etc.etc. How dare you being absolutely the same as Russian to criticize them for what you have done yourselves? 
 
 
The leaders of my countries didn't start any wars, but we sure helped end them.
ClapClapClap  It seems there is nothing to speak more about
.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 9>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.090 seconds.