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Styrbiorn
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Topic: Rumble in Tallinn Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 15:09 |
Originally posted by Kalevipoeg
Newsflash - don't plan on coming to Estonia for a party these days, all alcohol sales have been prohibited across the entire country until May 3rd There are student days going on in my university town of Tartu, what the hell am i to do sober those nights, arghhh....
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Take the boat across the sea! And see your wallet drain as you buy Swedish liquor...
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Kalevipoeg
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 15:14 |
I am only 19, i would have to take a guardian over 21 years of age to cross to Sweden by boat, those rotten shipping companies have their wires crossed with such freaky demands. Would western powers really interfere, what would be the greater point of that, radically theoretically of course
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There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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Anton
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 16:18 |
Originally posted by Majkes
God forgive Him his ignorance.
Poland beat Soviet Russia in 1920 in the Battle of Warsaw. Over 1.000.000 Russian army was beaten by smaller Polish one ( app. 800.000 )
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Actually it is not ignorance. I just wanted to mention that in this particular time Russia fighted in many many different fronts.
I'm talking that Russians created international crisis because some tenagers were fighting. And whose ambassador was beaten ?? Polish guys violated Russian law?? What are You talking about? It was Poland few teenagers beat other few teenagers. What does it have to do with breaking Russain law?? I think You don't know what I'm talking about.
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Sorry they were not diplomats indeed. They were kids of Russian diplomats. I don't know whether families of the diplomats aresubject of the same laws as diplomats themselves.
Well we have in the centre of Warsaw monument of Russian soldiers. We call it " Four Sleeping" ( it is because they waited as Warsaw will be slaughtered by Germans and did nothing meanwhile ). We don't want to remove it. I imagine what Russian goverment would say. But it is diffrent situation in Poland. Russians freed Poland from much worse Nazi regime so we should be thankfull for this but in Baltic case it is diffrent they were fred from Nazis but Comunist SU wasn't any better for them if not worse so why they should be greatfull for this? |
I told you, they shouldn't. However since they removed it they must expect a reaction from Russia.
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Anton
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 16:21 |
Originally posted by Majkes
That's a good one. Russian tv is really well known from independent thinking . |
Russian TV is well know for its DEPENDENT thinking. However if you think CNN or BBC or any Polish TV is more independent you missed something in this life
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Anton
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 16:41 |
Originally posted by Kalevipoeg
Anton: "Baltic countries didn't even try to keep good relations with Russia."
Yes, the Baltic countries were one of the most successful post-Soviet USSR countries, because they went straight to West with their policies. What blackhole we would have been if we followed Russian guidelines. The Baltic countries have always been more western than Russia, no wonder we had less interest in Russia than the West.
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Kalevipoeg, I am not talking about following guidelines etc. I am talking about obviously provocative actions
And anyway, you can't have good relations with Russia when they have an active FSB working against it. Russia needs not good relations with us, but some type of constant problems to use against us more effectively when the time comes. The hypocrisy about this very situation shows this, they want a confontation with us so bad. They are destroyig their own monuments while calling us in-human.
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Yeah, also it was not possible to have good relations with Russian when they had alcoholic as a president. And then it will not be possible to create a good relations with Russians when they have a military minister as a president (or whoever -- f.e. RosGazNeftsh*tPromStrojTrest leader, who was obviously mafiot in 19990s etc.). And so on. With such attitude you will not create a relation with your own mother-in-law. But it's your own business. As I said it is my private opinion.
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Zagros
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 17:19 |
Originally posted by Anton
However if you think CNN or BBC or any Polish TV is more independent you missed something in this life |
Exactly.
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Roberts
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 18:00 |
Originally posted by Anton
Originally posted by Majkes
That's a good one. Russian tv is really well known from independent thinking . |
However if you think CNN or BBC or any Polish TV is more independent you missed something in this life |
Well US, British and Polish media are way more "independent" than Russian ones. Link to press freedom index. Look up fore your mentioned states. So Majkes certainly hasn't missed something in his life.
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Anton
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 18:14 |
Originally posted by axeman
Well US, British and Polish media are way more "independent" than Russian ones. Link to press freedom index. Look up fore your mentioned states. So Majkes certainly hasn't missed something in his life.
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One cannot be slightly pregnant. There is no less or more free TV. Either it is free or not. All freedom indexes are crap. If you want to know the truth listen both sides. I thought these truths are kind of obvious
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Kalevipoeg
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 18:46 |
"Kalevipoeg, I am not talking about following guidelines etc. I am talking about obviously provocative actions "It seems sane to place graves to cemeteries. Russia drives over theirs with damn bulldozers. Russia is a radical country and we shouldn't do a lot of things, but whee would we get with that? "With such attitude you will not create a relation with your own mother-in-law. "This is politics, and you know its true, Russia only has good relations with its ass lickers. "One cannot be slightly pregnant. There is no less or more free TV.
Either it is free or not. All freedom indexes are crap. If you want to
know the truth listen both sides. I thought these truths are kind of
obvious "I don't think BBC claims that the French are nazis or the al-Qaeda are child eaters - thats practical Russian news for you. So there is a difference.
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There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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Roberts
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 18:52 |
Originally posted by Anton
All freedom indexes are crap. If you want to know the truth listen both sides. I thought these truths are kind of obvious |
Every index is crap? I don't think so. "Reporters without borders" is quite respectable organisation. If I wanted to know the "truth" I would certainly not listen Russian side, because they have made Estonia image to something like Nazi-like state, where Russians are discriminated on daily basis by nationalistic Estonians.
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Anton
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 19:13 |
Originally posted by Kalevipoeg
This is politics, and you know its true, Russia only has good relations with its ass lickers.
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Oh, I see. So, this means that Germany and France are more "ass-lickers" then Estonia? My friend, if keeping good relations is "ass-licking" than Estonia is a kind of ass-licker. It just changed the ass. Do you like such an explanation? I don't.
I don't think BBC claims that the French are nazis or the al-Qaeda are child eaters - thats practical Russian news for you. So there is a difference.
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No comment.
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Anton
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 19:21 |
Originally posted by axeman
If I wanted to know the "truth" I would certainly not listen Russian side, because they have made Estonia image to something like Nazi-like state, where Russians are discriminated on daily basis by nationalistic Estonians.
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Aha, so you prefer to watch Estonian TV where you will know that only ass-lickers sides with the drunk Russian bear whereas independent countries support the smart and the only true politics of free western Democracy.
Also, that small independent Estonia bited the hairy side of the beast and the bear is roaring but can do nothing with the brave independent small country? All right, that's your choice.
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Kalevipoeg
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 19:37 |
"Oh, I see. So, this means that Germany and France are more "ass-lickers" then Estonia? My
friend, if keeping good relations is "ass-licking" than Estonia is a
kind of ass-licker. It just changed the ass. Do you like such an
explanation? I don't."Haven't seen Merkels announcment yet, it's likely she is licking for the coming gasline Well probably we are, just as most countries who don't have oil oozing through their soil and own nukes and understand realpolitik are. But there are different types of asses, the Russian one smells the worst we've experienced. "No comment." Do BBC or CNN make radical remarks upon people solely by their nationality i mean if you didn't understand. "Also, that small independent Estonia bited the hairy side of the beast
and the bear is roaring but can do nothing with the brave independent
small country? All right, that's your choice. "We walked slowly by the mossy forest soil, it isn't our problem that the bear had something wrong with its nerves and needs blood.
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There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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SearchAndDestroy
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 19:45 |
One cannot be slightly pregnant. There is no less or more free TV. Either it is free or not. All freedom indexes are crap. If you want to know the truth listen both sides. I thought these truths are kind of obvious |
That phrase works for explaining somethings, this isn't one of them. Every country has a set of rules, and they are all different and very. Thus making allowing some freedom in one area, non in another, and even verying degrees of freedom that differ from another country. The statement you used describes black and white, that far from what that index shows that Axeman posted. If it was like what you say, there wouldn't be over a hundred rankings and would be just 2.
Besides, there are some conspiracy theories going about with some strong grounds on Russia hunting down it's own reporters for saying things the state doesn't find pleasing.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Anton
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 19:53 |
Do BBC or CNN make radical remarks upon people solely by their nationality i mean if you didn't understand.
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I do not see the difference between direct statement and "gentle hint". I saw several reports about Bulgaria in BBC. I will tell you that was nothing to do with a real Bulgaria. I mean, it was all true, but the way how it was presented was disgusting.
As for the rest -- we will not understand each other. I experienced "Russian ass" in St.Petersburg Uni, Russian Museum, Science-polis near Moscow. And I will tell you what -- it smells well. Since you are 19 you experienced it only in Estonian textbooks which (I am sorry to accuse you) cannot be considered as a standart for objectivity.
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Anton
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 19:58 |
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy
The statement you used describes black and white, that far from what that index shows that Axeman posted. If it was like what you say, there wouldn't be over a hundred rankings and would be just 2.
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If you think the way axeman and kalevipoeg describe Russia are expressed in 16000 colours you are mistaken.
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SearchAndDestroy
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 20:18 |
If I'm not mistaken, it started with Majikes comment on the media, and Axeman responding to that subject. You made a comment that says their is no wide array of media freedoms, it's just black and white. My comment was saying that your wrong about that, it varies greatly.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Kalevipoeg
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 20:19 |
BBC already reported wrong on these current events in Tallinn also - common western carelesness when it goes off their own borders. But they don't call us nazis for populistic reasons.
"As for the rest -- we will not understand each other. I experienced
"Russian ass" in St.Petersburg Uni, Russian Museum, Science-polis near
Moscow. And I will tell you what -- it smells well."
So what, everybody has mostly good times during their time in university. Using Russias educational establishments has nothing to do with what we were discussing.
"Since you are 19 you experienced it only in Estonian textbooks which (I
am sorry to accuse you) cannot be considered as a standart for
objectivity."
Since Estonian textbooks aren't radically on any side, and neither am i, i trust them with a ten times firmer "maybe" than others on Estonian history.
Edited by Kalevipoeg - 28-Apr-2007 at 20:51
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There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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Anton
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 20:40 |
Originally posted by Kalevipoeg
Since Estonian textbooks aren't radically on any side, and neither am i, i trust them with a ten times bigger "maybe" than others on Estonian history.
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So the phrase about ass-licking is probably from independent Estonian TV then
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DukeC
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Posted: 28-Apr-2007 at 20:45 |
The BBC has a reputation for responsible journalism in a way Russian media never has. The fact that it is publically funded means it has more oversite not less, and voters in the english speaking west tend to get angry at political interference in what they see as their broadcasters.
In Russia, especially during the Soviet era, the media has been nothing more than the mouthpiece of the ruling party and Putin has resurrected that tradition. Reporters that don't treat the government with kid gloves tend to have bad things happen to them.
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