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Ottoman Empire should be included here also

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HulaguHan View Drop Down
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  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ottoman Empire should be included here also
    Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 02:40
Originally posted by Phallanx


This book can be found very easily:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp? userid=5E6K0RIAXe&isbn=0674013859&itm=3

It mentions that Comneni Emperor recognices Mehmet the Conqueror as the Emperor of Romans.


Please people, let's be serious and mention only TRUE historic FACTS not some imaginary fairy-tales!!!!!

The LAST of the Comnenos dynasty was Andronicos Comninos, lived from 1118-1185 and ruled from 1183-1185.

Now Mehmet the Conqueror lived from 1432-1481, so when he ruled would be irrelevant since there is NO WAY that they could have met!!!!

Note that the emperors during his life time were the Paleologos John VII and Constantine XI.
NO Comnenos.

Only Jannissary corps were forming by converted Christians especially between 15th -17th centuries, not the army.

Just something that has to be added. They were converted by force after being abducted from their Christian families and used against them.
A similar tactic used by the Byzantines alot earlier when they used the Vardariots, Pecenek and Kuman Christian Turks against the Crusaders and later against the Seljuks


Oh, yes and about the original topic. No the Ottomans have nothing to do in here.
When we say Greek, Roman & Mediterranean Civilizations as anyone can tell we are talking BC not 14th century.

Comneni Dynasty governed Roman Empire of Trepizond   after Latins invaded Constantinople .

Like Safavid Turkish Empire, Ghaznawid Turkish Empire are considered as Iranian Empires (and they are), Ottomans are the Turkish Dynasty of  the Roman Empire coming after the Greek Dynasties.

Everybody excepts (including Firdousi) that Ghaznawids are descendants of Sassanids, and Safavids as Iranian Emperors. But people rejects Ottomans from Europe. They consider we stole Constantinople. They think Byzantine Empire was ended in 1453.

But it didn't. If you like it or not, when you conquer a country, you inherit what it has. The depts, the economy, the enemies everything.

Bernard Lewis mentions that the strugles of Romans and Parthians/Sassanids continued with the Ottoman-Safavid struggle. And now Turkey and Iran took the positions.

If you dare to judge Bernard Lewis, I have nothing to say more.

But that is the fact. When Ottomans conquered Eastern Roman Empire, they inherited everything it had. The society, the traditions, the enemies, and most importantly the geostrategical position itself, fighting against 3 fronts (Catholic Europe, Slavic pressure from caucassus and Iran in the east.)

These are not my thoughts, I am an amateur history fan, that' s it. That is why I opposed the Islamic Forum. Many Turkik Dynasties owned Empires belong to other cultures. Safavids, Ghaznawids are Iranian Empires. Ottoman Empire is Roman Empire. What they did was, just continue the business which their predecessor did.

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HulaguHan View Drop Down
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  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 02:48

Ottoman Empire was governed by Muslims. Yes Ottoman Empire was Islam oriented but the islam of Ottoman world was highly influenced by Greek Orthodox Church.

I think claiming that Orthodox Christianity is closer to Turkish Islam than Catholic Christianity. Both Orthodoxs Christians and Lets say Ottoman Turkish Muslims did 2-D arts (mosaiqe, miniature) but stood away from sculpture (You know the iconoclasm issues). The rituals of Orthodox Romans created the Turkish Arts Music.

Forget it Rome is not equal to christianity. Rome when founded was pagan. THen changed the religion, became Christian. but east and west divided because they had arguement of the definition of Jesus ( LOL ). Anyway, people understand oriental by Islam. No Orthodox Christianity and Ottoman Islam (Arabs were under Ottoman rule too but their traditions are different than us.) is Oriental.

Eastern Rome again in the givernmental position changed the religion and became muslim.

But if we dig more, we can see that Ottomans brought Persian tradition (BEcause before Anatolian invasion, we invaded Iran.) also. THere was a perfect combination.

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giani_82 View Drop Down
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  Quote giani_82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 10:23
Janissaries are not even close to legionnaries. I mean for the second the job was voluntary, it didn't take a forcefull act to recruit this elite unit. Now talking about the later Roman empire one issue comes to mind - the ever growing power of the church in the West and the fact that the emperor subdued the role of the church, using it for their own reasons. The culture of the Byzantine empire became distinct through the centuries, the state of Kiev to the best part adopted the most of it. Now it's difficult to apply it to the state of Novgorod for example, there the case is quite different, the role of the kniaz is not as strong as in the East. To the biggest part the adoption of Byzantine culture in the state of Kiev is easy to distinct in the architectural and social structure of the city. The feudal system is still not like the one developed in the West, and had some similarities to the massive landownership of the byzantine aristocracy. At the same time the feudal relationships in the Ottoman empire, are a bit different. It did involve some more complex relations between the spahis (local landowners) and the central government. Indeed the turks applied some of the cultural elements of the Eastern empire, but they are certainly not enough for it to be called a Second Rome. 
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising everytime we fall."
Confucius
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