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Forgotten Generals

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Sun Tzu View Drop Down
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  Quote Sun Tzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Forgotten Generals
    Posted: 14-Nov-2008 at 01:51
Narses was a great general and if this wasn't written earlier an enunch that Justinian bought and later made him one of his right hand men. He was able reconquer Italy for a while when he was still alive when Belisarius couldn't. I remember reading in a book that during the Nika rebellion He actually walcked out into the middle of the Hippodrome where the mob was feuding. He Threw a bag of gold on the ground and when they were fighting over the gold his army surrounded the Hippodrome and broke the rebellion.
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Galahadlrrp View Drop Down
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  Quote Galahadlrrp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2008 at 04:23
--I agree totally with the assessment of Narses as a commander.
--But in fairness to Belisarius, Narses was able to do what Belisarius couldn't because Justinian trusted him with an army two to three times the size of the one he allowed Belisarius. Given a similiar force, most people would have bet that Belisarius, too, would have conquered Italy.
--And a quibble. During the Nika riots, Narses played an important part by entering the Hippodrome and buying off one of the factions and then later by being involved in the Imperial crowd control measures. But it wasn't his troops that did the Hippodrome surrounding and terminating with extreme prejudice; they were Belisarius' troops. Narses commanded the Imperial Bodyguard, but Belisarius commanded the army and the operation.
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Al Jassas View Drop Down
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2008 at 18:34

All the generals of the great Arab conquests from 630-850. Every conquest movement in history was killed by research from military historians except the Arab conquests. The only biography of Khalid ibn Al-Walid from a military point of view for example was only done in the 20th century and by a Pakistani general.

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macayana View Drop Down
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  Quote macayana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 09:09
Very informative thread.  Kudos to the thread starter!
 
Some additions, if I may:
 
from the US Civil War: George H. Thomas
 
from WW2: Alexander Patch and Vasili Chuikov
 
from the 18th century: Claude Hector Villars
 
from the Middle Ages: John Hunyadi
 
Not too many people may agree with me here, but I honestly believe that Scipio Africanus was a better general than Hannibal.  To the extent that Hannibal is consistently ranked above Scipio, then I submit that the latter is underrated.  Just my humble opinion.
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Aster Thrax Eupator View Drop Down
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 10:34

Alp-Arlsan

...Excellent choice, but you mustn't forget that the Byzantine military was decisively weakened in power in the centuries following the defeat at Yarmuk, the following destruction of their Christian-Syrian client kingdoms and the split with Rome in 1054. However, despite all that, anyone who can defeat the imperial Byzantine army in battle in a time in which it was still relatively powerful (1071 - Manzikert: the rot set in after the early 1200s Latin invasion) gets a nod from me!
I'd also have to include Kimon - think of his victory at Eurymedon in 466, which essentially ended Darius' satrapy of c.511. However, in retropsect, Plutarch does overemphasise his military prowess - he states that Eurymedon was more important and impressive than Salamis, Plataea and Marathon (490, 480, 479), which it clearly wasn't, and if we examine the ridiculously ambitious Egyptian exhibition of 459-4, and the siege of Thasos in 465-3, we can consider Kimon to have not been an exceptionally brilliant commander. However, it was, for all his pan-hellenism, his moves that actually built much of the future Athenian empire - from his operations in the early 480s/late 470s in Thrace, it was thanks to him that the colony of Amphipolis could be founded by Athens, and thus economic dominance over much of the north-eastern medditeranian. However, by any accounts, Eurymedon was a triumph - its' just sad that his political naievity and the political brilliance of Ephilates and Perikles in 462 lead to his dismissal.
 
I must also mention Gonzalo Cordoba "El Gran Capitan"; Isabella and Ferdinand's chief commander, who perfected the "tercio" manuvouer and in the 1494-1516 Italian wars, performed exceptionally, wining vast victories, such as Garigliano and Cerignola in c.1503, where he decisively defeated the French forces with gunpowder for the first time in European history. He may have lost Naples at Marigliano in 1515, but when we consider that, following the treaty of Etaples in 1494 and Barcelona in 1493, Charles VII and Rouen were able to concentrate most of the unified French army in Italy, what he achieved under the circumstances is clearly remarkable!
 
All the generals of the great Arab conquests from 630-850. Every conquest movement in history was killed by research from military historians except the Arab conquests. The only biography of Khalid ibn Al-Walid from a military point of view for example was only done in the 20th century and by a Pakistani general.
 
Certainly! I've just finished reading Paul Kennedy's "the arab conquests" and would have to agree with you - some of the military commanders of Persia were not that good, but I recall that the conquerers of Egypt - Amr - and Spain - Tariq - were also brilliant commanders, especially Amr's campaigns in the Mahbreb! However, we should consider the situation - in Egypt, when Heraclius deposed Phorsas, he used most of the troops in Egypt and never sent a garrison back - thus, the Byzantine governor of Alexandria pretty much gave in without a fight, despite the fact that Amr had less than 10'000 men! Also, Rodrigo - the last visigothic king of Spain - wasn't much of a match when it came to Tariq. Also, if you're up to c.850, I'd have to include Harun Al Rashid who captured Cyprus from the Byzantines and caught the attentions of Charglemaine (who you should also consider - his defeat of Decimus at c.776 is brilliant - no wonder the pope wanted to crown him, and probably Charles the fat, who managed to unify his empire for a short time!), and certainly the first Abbasid Caliph Al-Saffas, who defeated the Tang dynasty decisively at Talas in 751, and the last Ummayad king Marwan II at the river Zab in c.730.


Edited by Aster Thrax Eupator - 10-Dec-2008 at 10:43
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C.C.Benjamin View Drop Down
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  Quote C.C.Benjamin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 23:51
I'd plumb for Aethelstan the Glorious, King of all Britain.

Never heard of him?  Neither had I, but apparently he was pretty good.
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