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Anton
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Topic: is albanian language the oldest one? Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 10:36 |
Originally posted by Yiannis
Just because some Greek words have a meaning also in Albanian that does not mean that they're actually Albanian. Please spare us!
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Or vice versa -- just because Albanian words have also meaning in Greek that does not mean that they are actually Greek.
Investigate when and where the words you mention were used first as well as their written appearances and you will see.
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The first appearance in a written form means nothing. Keeping in mind that Greek became literary much earlier.
Edited by Anton - 25-Apr-2007 at 10:38
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Yiannis
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Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 10:57 |
So we're saying here that Greek language/Gods etc derives from Albanian? I'd like to remind you that this in not the Amusement part of the forum Unless if you're playing here the role of devil's advocate and you make "arguments" just for the sake of it.
Has it crossed your mind that since both languages are part of the Indoeuropean branch, they're bound to have similarities? Same as English, Greek, Slavic, Persian, Indian all have?
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Anton
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Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 11:08 |
Originally posted by Yiannis
So we're saying here that Greek language/Gods etc derives from Albanian? I'd like to remind you that this in not the Amusement part of the forum Unless if you're playing here the role of devil's advocate and you make "arguments" just for the sake of it.
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I am not sure what are you saying here, but at least in part this might be true. Hypothetically. Like Orfeus and Dionisios for example.
Has it crossed your mind that since both languages are part of the Indoeuropean branch, they're bound to have similarities? Same as English, Greek, Slavic, Persian, Indian all have? |
You might be surprised but yes, it came to my mind. What I am curious is whether it crosses the mind of people who try to prove Greek origin of Kastrioti for example with the same ridiculous linguistic arguments. Who speaks about root "Zel" in Kukuzelis. Who speaks about root "hor" in well known Balkan dance. Root "sten" in Anastenaria. And many other people.
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Athanasios
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Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 11:28 |
Originally posted by Anton
[QUOTE=Yiannis]
Just because some Greek words have a meaning also in Albanian that does not mean that they're actually Albanian. Please spare us!
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Or vice versa -- just because Albanian words have also meaning in Greek that does not mean that they are actually Greek.
[QUOTE]
No, that's a sophism... I can remember ,for example, more than one turkish words which are used in modern greek language.
The oxymoron is that these words are greek which were transformed during the centuries in turkish language, have the same meaning and they are used nowadays by modern Greeks in the turkish way of pronounce.
A fictional question is: during the 3rd century A.D. for example(before the slavic impact in Balkans)a Roman tax collector wants to talk to an Illyrian citizen ... unfortunately the citizen doesn't speak latin so a translator is needed...
The official language is Latin right?
The translator should speak at least latin and... illyrian?
If he speaks latin and Greek (attic dialect f.ex.) would it be difficult for the illyrian citizen to understand? As i can see from the previous tables,there wouldn't be any problem.
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Anton
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Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 13:25 |
Originally posted by Athanasios
I can remember ,for example, more than one turkish words which are used in modern greek language.
The oxymoron is that these words are greek which were transformed during the centuries in turkish language, have the same meaning and they are used nowadays by modern Greeks in the turkish way of pronounce. |
What words for example? I heard somewhere that word "kufte" was Byzantine (in form of Kiftaki?). I might be wrong though.
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Athanasios
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Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 15:51 |
If you mean kfte , this is a kind of meat balls...i can't imagine which byzantine word was used to describe this food(certainly not an ancient Greek as far as i know).
The most known word is the name of the Ottoman capital Istabul( eis tin Polin=eisti npolin =Istabul=to the city) whose greekness is doubted.Well if a Greek uses the word "eis tin polin" instead of saying "Istabul", then he would be considered as a looney . Actually the possibilities to hear both words from a Greek are very few...
Well , there is a common swear word ( aei se οiktiro=aeiseoiktiro= ai sihtir[sorry for posting this ] which means get out of my shight ) and it is most likely used by the modern greeks whith the turkish accent.
An other example is the word difthera which meaned in ancient Greek a processed kind of animal skin which was used for writing.
In Arabian it was pronounced as Diftar and when it was passed into Ottoman language it was pronounced as tefter which means a kind of testbook which is used (and still used by grocers) and is pronounced as tefteri in modern Greek language.
Well i prefer to use the word organiser ...
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Anton
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Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 16:54 |
Yeah, word "tefter" is used in Bulgarian as well.
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britani
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Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 17:17 |
what i want to say again is that the albanian languge is elsewhere in the prehistory and mithology too.
we know that Zeus was grown up in "Krete" and this word (krete) in albanian means excatly the place of growing up.(kurete)
if we analise it better we can see this shared in two part:1-ku & 2-ret......the word "ku" in albanian means where and the word "ret" means grow/grow up.
so Ku-ret/kret=where i grow(alb)
~again,zeus"s wife was called Hera and this word in albanian means "the wind".....hera=era(alb).
~"Atre" is another important name and it can be translated very well in albanian.As a good part of the names it is shared in two part > 1-at which means father and 2-re which means clouds.
so Atre=the father of clouds(alb) P.S(our nation from albanians is called "atdhe" = the father of earth).
~Atre"s father was called "Pelop" and again this word is translated very well in albanian. it is shared in 1-pe=see(alb) and lop=cow(alb).so Pelop=i see/saw the cow.
more???
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olvios
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Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 19:28 |
So you are trying to tell
me that albanian universities are the most historically accurite **** alive....
I have heard alot of
stupidities in my life, many come from ignorant albanians, because intellectual
albanians know their ****.Too bad they are never heard they dont exist probably.
So your Tirana university
know more about ancient history than the rest of the world,,,,but im sure you
got no education, your solely education is stupid web sites made by people like
you.
So where did you guys
find out about greek mythology and know so much more than the rest of the
world, is this through archeological work?or other scholastic work during
communistic isolation of Hoxha.... When you find an y kind
of inscriptions of albanian language older than the book in vatican of 1555, while greeks were
writting and spreading their language throughout middle east and Asia...
It is the same funny
explanation that some ignoramous beings refer to the names such as aphrodite by
saying that is the equivelant of the albanian words afer-dites near the
dawn, which is a hilarious "scientific" explanation.
While the etymology of
that word is Aphros which means foam in ancient greek and dite which means to
be born,
Lets put one plus one and
lets get to her mythological story....and see how much sense the stupid
ignoramus albanian explanation by some idiots is:
In Greek mythology,
Aphrodite is the goddess of love, beauty and sexual rapture. According to
Hesiod, she was born when Uranus (the father of the gods) was
castrated by his son Cronus.
Cronus threw the severed genitals into the ocean which began to churn and foam
about them. From the aphros ("sea foam") arose Aphrodite, and
the sea carried her to either Cyprus or Cythera. Hence she is often referred to
as Kypris and Cytherea. Homer calls her a daughter of Zeus
and Dione.
After her birth, Zeus
was afraid that the gods would fight over Aphrodite's hand in marriage so he
married her off to the smith god Hephaestus, the steadiest of the gods. He
could hardly believe his good luck and used all his skills to make the most
lavish jewels for her. He made her a girdle of finely wrought gold and wove
magic into the filigree work. That was not very wise of him, for when she wore
her magic girdle no one could resist her, and she was all too irresistible
already. She loved gaiety and glamour and was not at all pleased at being the
wife of sooty, hard-working Hephaestus.
Aphrodite loved and
was loved by many gods and mortals. Among her mortal lovers, the most famous
was perhaps Adonis.
Some of her sons are Eros, Anteros,
Hymenaios and Aeneas (with her Trojan lover Anchises). She is accompanied by the Graces.
Her festival is the
Aphrodisiac which was celebrated in various centers of Greece and especially in Athens and Corinth. Her priestesses were not
prostitutes but women who represented the goddess and sexual intercourse with
them was considered just one of the methods of worship. Aphrodite was
originally an old-Asian goddess, similar to the Mesopotamian Ishtar
and the Syro-Palestinian goddess Ashtart. Her attributes are a.o. the dolphin,
the dove, the swan, the pomegranate and the lime tree.
In Roman mythology Venus
is the goddess of love and beauty and Cupid
is love's messenger.
--------------------------------------------
U are losing a tree in a forest,U will need
another 50 years to understand how naive and stupid is what you believe, you
had Enver fake history with you for 50 years, now you got some other manipulists to
fake history with your tiny brains.
Edited by olvios - 26-Apr-2007 at 07:21
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http://www.hoplites.net/
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olvios
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Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 19:28 |
implying that Harvard,Yale ,Oxford,Cambridge and all great
universities of planet earth are mistaken and that Tirana university
has discovered the truth that just happens to fit with enver's
propaganda!Wow Oxford will be pleased and sad since million s of
hours reading and studying didnt do them any good.
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http://www.hoplites.net/
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Anton
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Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 21:20 |
Originally posted by olvios
U are losing a tree in a forest,U will need another 50 years to understand how naive and stupid is what you believe, you had Enver fack with you for 50 years, now you got some other manipulists to fack with your tiny brains. |
My friend, you are losing consciousness. Maybe his linguistic analysis is a bit naive but most of historical research uses that kind of things as a basis in understanding the ethogenesis of a given nation. The fact that there is no written texts in Albanian before some time absolutely does not mean that there were no such language before the first text appears.
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olvios
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Posted: 26-Apr-2007 at 04:24 |
Originally posted by olvios
implying that Harvard,Yale ,Oxford,Cambridge and all great
universities of planet earth are mistaken and that Tirana university
has discovered the truth that just happens to fit with enver's
propaganda!Wow Oxford will be pleased and sad since million s of
hours reading and studying didnt do them any good.
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http://www.hoplites.net/
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Anton
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Posted: 26-Apr-2007 at 05:22 |
Originally posted by olvios
implying that Harvard,Yale ,Oxford,Cambridge and all great universities of planet earth are mistaken and that Tirana university has discovered the truth that just happens to fit with enver's propaganda!Wow Oxford will be pleased and sad since million s of hours reading and studying didnt do them any good. |
Harvard, Yale, Oxford and Cambridge produce as much BS as other Universities. But what you can learn from those Universities is the way how to make a polite and tolerable discussion. As well as proper spelling of the word "f..k"
Edited by Anton - 26-Apr-2007 at 05:38
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Maharbbal
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Posted: 26-Apr-2007 at 06:44 |
Originally posted by britani
more??? |
Nooooooooooo! Please be mercyfull think about all these poor moderators that have to read all this nonesense. Linguistic similarities if supported by no other element are not even remotedly probent so please stop. Moreover you'll be glad to know that you ought to be the 10th Albanian posting exactly the same stuff, so That being said the Ancient Greek may well share a great deal with modern Albanian, you might be correct about that but please give us a break with this idiotic comments.
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xristar
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Posted: 26-Apr-2007 at 13:39 |
I remember reading somewhere that the turks were proposing that Appolo was turk. Appolo=alp oglan=child of the mountains.
You can make thousands of such connection between all languages if you want.
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Victory needs none.
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Athanasios
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Posted: 26-Apr-2007 at 14:25 |
Yes, but i think the hole indo-european theory is the major factor for all those pseydo-linguistic claims . We all give to these temptations just to create baseless "usefull" arguments
Edited by Athanasios - 26-Apr-2007 at 14:27
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akritas
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Posted: 26-Apr-2007 at 16:32 |
Originally posted by Anton
Originally posted by olvios
U are losing a tree in a forest,U will need another 50 years to understand how naive and stupid is what you believe, you had Enver fack with you for 50 years, now you got some other manipulists to fack with your tiny brains. |
My friend, you are losing consciousness. Maybe his linguistic analysis is a bit naive but most of historical research uses that kind of things as a basis in understanding the ethogenesis of a given nation. The fact that there is no written texts in Albanian before some time absolutely does not mean that there were no such language before the first text appears. |
One from the primary source to define a language is the writing system. The Blackwell Encyclopedia of Writing Systems defines a writing system as "a set of visible or tactile signs used to represent units of language in a systematic way". This simple explanation encompasses a large spectrum of writing systems with vastly different stylistic and structural characteristics spanning across the many regions of the globe.
So the inscription or the script was, is and will be the major definition source of a language.
Edited by akritas - 26-Apr-2007 at 16:33
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Anton
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Posted: 26-Apr-2007 at 16:50 |
Originally posted by akritas
So the inscription or the script was, is and will be the major definition source of a language.
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So, this means that slavonic language didn't exist prior to creation of glagolitsa and kirilitsa. Ulfila tought goths to speak. Turkic and finno-ugric tribes of Russian Empire had no language untill let say 17th century when they adopted kirilic and latin alphabeths for their needs. Am I right?
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akritas
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Posted: 26-Apr-2007 at 16:59 |
According the linguistics...YES. Writing systems differ structure, stylistically, familially, geographically, and so on. Consider that until in the middle of the 20th cen Mycenaean and the Late Minoan civilizations were not consider Greeks because the decipherment incognizance of the Linear B . Another example is the Epirotan tribes. Until 19th cent Epirotan tribes consider non-Greek from the Greeks, but with the discovery of the ancient scripts this thesis collapse. If we had writing texts from your mentioned civilizations we would know and when they originated.
Edited by akritas - 26-Apr-2007 at 17:02
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Anton
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Posted: 26-Apr-2007 at 19:17 |
Originally posted by akritas
According the linguistics...YES. |
Same linguists speak about language using names and toponyms as a material.
If we had writing texts from your mentioned civilizations we would know and when they originated.
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True. But this does not mean that a civilization originated when it became literary. Without literacy nations create even large eposes (cf. Kaalevala or Olonkho).
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