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Topic: is albanian language the oldest one? Posted: 17-May-2007 at 21:35 |
pellasgus,
piell- arg
piell= born( in fact something similar) for example pinjoll ( which derives from piell ) means junior.
arg= white
so piellarg meaning born white,and the language of piellarg people was the language of white people.a language which is magnificently preserved in todays albanain language.If there was not a common language between white people,then how are we to explain the imigrations of ancient times whith such ease?is because whereever they went white people found in the local population a people that spoke the same language as them.how are we to explain the albanian speaking people in the kaukazis and almost all over europe untill the late century?????Not through imigration for sure,you all would agree that what constitutes todays albania in ancient times must have been a population of barely 200 thousend people right? and people so close to their land ,that they would go as high as posible in the mountains to live,and besides,the albanian speaking people of other places did not have albanian traditions,or cultural similarities,just the language.makes you think right??????????
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Posted: 17-May-2007 at 22:01 |
and what Britany posted are not idiotic comments but hundreds of words who have a near exact meaning in today albanian and that would make sense in the sentence they are writen,as they would not in any other language ,including greek language.( in fact greek language is way of)
Spartacus, to understand ,one should be able to speak albanian,so since u dont i belive you.
There might be similarities of this ancient text with other languages aswell ,but not so big similarities,not so many similarities,and not making so much sense in a modern language as they do in albanian.
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Flipper
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Posted: 18-May-2007 at 12:27 |
Originally posted by Laberia
pellasgus,
piell- arg
piell= born( in fact something similar) for example pinjoll ( which derives from piell ) means junior.
arg= white
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First of all to correct the intentional grammatical errors to suit certain ideas seen around the net. Those people are mentioned as Πελασγοί (pron. Pelasji) or Πελάσγιοι (pron Pelasjii). Always with 1 "L". It means "sea people" or better translated "Sons of the Sea". Check etymonline to verify my words... http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=pelasgian&searchmode=noneJust for the info, It can also derive from Πέλας (Pelas) "someone close to you" or "someone flat" but i've never seen that to be analyzed anywhere, so lets leave that out. So, you have: Πέλαγος (Pelagos) which means "sea". and you have γιος (from υιός, plural γιοι) which means "son". just copy paste this and verify it at http://babelfish.altavista.com/trAnd btw... bardh = white in Albanian
I couldn't find piell in the albanian dictionary...
Now, please lets keep this clean... Thank you!
Edited by Flipper - 18-May-2007 at 12:35
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Arbr Z
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 04:29 |
Originally posted by akritas
According the linguistics...YES. Writing systems differ structure, stylistically, familially, geographically, and so on. Consider that until in the middle of the 20th cen Mycenaean and the Late Minoan civilizations were not consider Greeks because the decipherment incognizance of the Linear B . Another example is the Epirotan tribes. Until 19th cent Epirotan tribes consider non-Greek from the Greeks, but with the discovery of the ancient scripts this thesis collapse. If we had writing texts from your mentioned civilizations we would know and when they originated.
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It is true, since the 19-th century the greeks considered the epirotans as non-greeks.
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olvios
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 04:34 |
Now we know they were greeks since all was deciphered and we got more testimonies from ancient writers..
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Arbr Z
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 04:36 |
regarding the pelasgians, we know from the ancient greek authors that they were non-greeks, who didn't speak this language. (somewhere is written that the ionians were pelasgians who converted to the hellenic language, were hellenised) We know also that the Greeks inherited some vocabulary from the pelasgians, there are indications that they borrowed some names of gods from their language.
Now, since we dont know many things, we can only raise hypotheses. You cant contrast them arbitrarily. (I am not supporting any of the hypotheses)
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olvios
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 05:01 |
Check out herodotus for one example
Herodotus, The Histories (ed. A. D. Godley)
LVI. When he heard these verses, Croesus was pleased with them above
all, for he thought that a mule would never be king of the Medes
instead of a man, and therefore that he and his posterity would never
lose his empire. Then he sought very carefully to discover who the
mightiest of the Greeks were, whom he should make his friends. [2] He
found by inquiry that the chief peoples were the Lacedaemonians among
those of Doric, and the Athenians among those of Ionic stock. These
races, Ionian and Dorian, were the foremost in ancient time, the first
a Pelasgian and the second a Hellenic people. The Pelasgian race has
never yet left its home; the Hellenic has wandered often and far. [3]
For in the days of king Deucalion1 it inhabited the land of Phthia,
then the country called Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus, in the time
of Dorus son of Hellen; driven from this Histiaean country by the
Cadmeans, it settled about Pindus in the territory called Macedonian;
from there again it migrated to Dryopia, and at last came from Dryopia
into the Peloponnese, where it took the name of Dorian.2 Different language but greeks nonetheless-The Athenians who were pelasgians support their greeknes throughout history.
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olvios
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 05:04 |
If the pelasgians were "mightier" we would be called pelasgians and hellenes would be name like the pelasgians is now.A tribal name of the same ancient group of people that would inlcude pelasgians and hellenes as one ancient ethnicity.
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Yiannis
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 05:10 |
Originally posted by Arbr Z
(somewhere is written that the ionians were pelasgians who converted to the hellenic language, were hellenised)
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Politics. Athenians claimed to be of "Pelasgic stock". In this sense they meant "autochthonus" and thus claimed supremacy over the other Greeks.
Herodotus, who was pro-Athenian, supports their claim.
Zeus at Dodona had the epithet of "Pelasgic", in the sense of ancient.
Homer mentions them as Trojan allies and places them in Thrace, thus identifying them as Thracians.
Homer also mentions "Pelasgians" in Crete and thessaly (central Greece), Asius, describes Pelasgus as the first man, whom the earth threw up that there might be a race of men.
So the Greeks were using the term "Pelasgian" in the sense of "from times immemorial" and not to describe specific people or nation.
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Arbr Z
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 05:46 |
Originally posted by Yiannis
Originally posted by Arbr Z
(somewhere is written that the ionians were pelasgians who converted to the hellenic language, were hellenised)
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Politics. Athenians claimed to be of "Pelasgic stock". In this sense they meant "autochthonus" and thus claimed supremacy over the other Greeks.
Herodotus, who was pro-Athenian, supports their claim.
Zeus at Dodona had the epithet of "Pelasgic", in the sense of ancient.
Homer mentions them as Trojan allies and places them in Thrace, thus identifying them as Thracians.
Homer also mentions "Pelasgians" in Crete and thessaly (central Greece), Asius, describes Pelasgus as the first man, whom the earth threw up that there might be a race of men.
So the Greeks were using the term "Pelasgian" in the sense of "from times immemorial" and not to describe specific people or nation.
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I agree with you, it is all politics. The ancient greek myths sometimes were used to support the authochthonity. Anyway, Homer seems not to be aware of the return of the heraclides, and he mentions ionians only twice, and dorians once (and regarding some critics point that this could be probably added later). Homer mentions the aeolians only as the inhabitants of stromboli (the island of aeolus). this means that the centuries VIII - VII were very important to the genesis of the classical greek ethnos. Before there still survived a strong pre-greek presence (among them pelasgians). IMO the very name, pelasgians comes from the same root as gr.Paleo - old or alb. Plak - Pleq oldman - oldmen.
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olvios
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 05:58 |
It means "sea people" or better translated "Sons of the Sea" in Greek not old its Pelasgoi not Paleosgoi .
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olvios
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 06:00 |
Isnt there a word in albanian "Pelegu" about the sea? Heard it from an albanian guy is it right?
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Arbr Z
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 06:00 |
Originally posted by olvios
It means "sea people" or better translated "Sons of the Sea" in Greek not old its Pelasgoi not Paleosgoi .
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And how do you know that? Remember, your opinion is just as worth as the others!
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Flipper
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 06:03 |
Good point Arber about the Ionians. Generally, i do not believe in a proto-Greek migration. I believe that the classical age greeks were a mix of IE settlers (that cannot be coined as proto greeks) carrying a language close to Phrygian, Thracian etc and autochthonus people (Pelasgian, Leleges, Aperandoi etc). The result of the mix gave us what we know as Greeks.
As about politics...The Athenians and the people of Attica (FKA Aktica) are reported to descend from Aktaios who was characterized as an autochthonus man but without specifying if he was Pelasgian or something else.
The same thing goes for the Illyrians. They encountered the Vucedols which i believe didn't just dissappear from the face of earth. Illyrians were probably a similar result of IE migrations intermixing with Vucedols and other people in the area of Illyricum.
Edited by Flipper - 23-May-2007 at 06:06
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olvios
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 06:04 |
If it was "old sons or old something" it would be "palioisgoi" or something like this.It doesnt make sense up to now while the Pelasgoi by the known etymology is.
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olvios
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 06:05 |
I d go with this its bibliography is better then ours http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=pelasgian&searchmode=noneHow about that Pelegu word in albanian does it exist or did they trick me?
Edited by olvios - 23-May-2007 at 06:06
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Arbr Z
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 06:58 |
It exists! Pellg or pellg means bassin of water, but also its hinterland (Pellgu i Mesdheut - Mediterranean Bassin)
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Leonidas
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 09:15 |
To Philochorus, "Pelasgoi" means "stork-folk" so there can many answers to this question.
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Arbr Z
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 10:21 |
Originally posted by Leonidas
To Philochorus, "Pelasgoi" means "stork-folk" so there can many answers to this question.
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true, there can be many answers
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olvios
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 10:35 |
If you could establish a relationship with "pelasgian" then albanians would not be illyrian but some north thracian offshoot.Illyrians are invaders not autocthonous and related to gauls and celts and they are not pelasgic.
The pelegu word is more like the Pelasgi of the greeks , can you write the varities of the word pelegu?
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