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Maharbbal View Drop Down
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gun Control/Gun Ownership
    Posted: 31-May-2007 at 21:26
hum I found some figures

The presence of a gun at home makes it 6 times more likeky for an abused woman to be murdered in '03.

Two-third of the women killed by their husbands were murdered by way of firearms (so were 56% of the girlfriends and 46% of the boyfriends).

One person under 18 is killed every 3 hours in the US by firearms.

82% of the people aged between 13 and 18 in the country were killed by firearms.

The rate of death by firearms for people under 14 is 12 times higher in the US than in 25 other industrialized countries.

45 people under 18 are wounded each day by guns.

Half of the death of Afro-American teens are due to firearms.

Each unintentional shooting costs on average $22k
Each gun assault injury costs on average $18k
Each suicide costs on average $5.5k

Each firearm fatalities cost $2.8m in 1997

Annually gun violence may well cost over $100bn of which the public pays easil 80%.

Some 40% of the US households have a gun.

Conserning the fear that drive women to use guns, 60% of rapes are comitted on women under 18 (hence not allowed to own a conceilled gun), 70% are comited without weapon (hence could be avoided with selfdefense techniques or a buzzer) and 75% of rapes are comited by somebody known by the victim (hence the gun may not be the good solution, would you shot your neighboor or kin?).

Figures here
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2007 at 22:39
I would say my ability to kill an intruder is a pretty hard fact.
What is emotional is your feeling of how likely it is for you to be killed/robbed/rapped. Do you take your piece every day or only once in a while? Where is it when you are sleeping?

What sort of Orwellian doublethink nonsense is that?
Confused Am I calling you a gun freak?

Look at Florida other similar American states and compare them with areas like the District of Columbia.
You are comparing apples and orange. DC is way poorer, more urban and younger than Florida. All of which increases the rate of violence, not mentioning the dreadful de facto apartheid.

At least in America, gun control has been counterproductive.
Hum that is why 33 mayors of major cities are campaining for gun control.

That doesn't make gun ownership work any worse.  All policies that reduce crime should be embraced.

It seems to me that if you have a policy working well, you'd pick it over another one whose effects are at best contrevertial and that has proven to be negative for public health.

The balance is most certainly not broken in the USA.  If I were to ever use my personal weapon in a crime in my state, I'd probably be executed.  In my state, which gives all non felons who complete a course the right to carry hidden firearms, I go shopping and sit in restaurants and theaters with people who have guns that I can't see.  So far I've never even seen one unholster their weapons, much less try to use them for unlawful purposes.

So is it even useful to bear a gun? And yes balance IS broken as a criminal will have to assume everybody has a weapon to avoid surprises. Hence you are forced to own one. So YOU force ME to buy a gun, eventually.


I'm no different than outlaws because I own a weapon legally?  That makes absolutely no sense.

You have to admit that bad people usually have a gun, while Winny the Poo does not.

I'm the only one here who isn't being emotional.

Lol

My house is a safer place now that I have a gun and know how to use it, that's all I wanted.

Once more it boils down to the traditional "are you ready to kill to save your plasma tv"?
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2007 at 22:55
Originally posted by Cezar

Genghis, are you really readin everything that we are posting or are you just enjoying yourself in quoting what you want?
What's this supposed to mean:
 
If you want "protection" get yourself useful to the society!.
That doesn't even make sense.?
 
[QUOTE]I'm no different than outlaws because I own a weapon legally?  That makes absolutely no sense.
 
You are basically not different from an outlaw. He's wielding a gun and so  do you (actually, the last time you were bragging about carrying two). So, you have a gun and so does he. You have a Python, he has a ... Glock, what makes the difference between the two of you except the fact (that I've allready stated) that you have not offended the law and he has/is/has?
You seem to enjoy yourself wielding a gun.
I have a sabre. A Shin-to (I cannot affford a Ko-to). It stays at my dojo (it's not a dojo but we call it that way). I walk bearhanded in the night in Bucharest because I'm  certain that the chance of being threatened with a gun is minimal. Although guns are available at a lower price than you might imagine (and I'm talking about the real stuff man, like AK's, or Tokarev's, or Makarov's - an AK47 is around 250$ - three 30 packs included) I'm pretty sure that noone will pull one on me tonight. And the crime rate is growing in Romania. Yet, there are only victims of pickpockets or some other things like that. The "bad stuff" is getting lower. Maybe because even the offenders of the law are getting tired of making the news.
To be honest, I'd rather have all my money stolen than killing the guy who did it.
You should really modify that 2nd amm or article, whatever. It should look like this: WE, THE US CITIZENS WOULD NEVER GIVE UP OUR RIGHT TO BEAR WEAPONS BECAUSE WE LOOOOOVE IT!. AND THAT'S ONLY FOR US (AS IN WE), THE REST OF THE WORLD SHOULD MIND OF IT'S OWN BUSINESS!.
That would be no trouble except the fact is that the US are what they are and we others look at you and wonder how come that you turned the eagle into a dragon?
 
*I'm not yet against the USA. Looks like two words of this sentence are about to be gone.
 
 
 
Saying I'm similar to an outlaw because I own a gun is a completely meaningless statement.  Many outlaws also like to eat steak, I like steak, therefore I am just like an outlaw.  Whether or not what I do is similar to what an outlaw does does not make that action right or wrong, or anything other than a similarity, the action is either right or wrong in and of itself regardless of who performs it.
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2007 at 23:08
What is emotional is your feeling of how likely it is for you to be killed/robbed/rapped.
 
I am aware that the chance is small, but I'd still rather have a gun and not need it, than need it and not have it. 
 
Do you take your piece every day or only once in a while? Where is it when you are sleeping?

I cannot legally take it concealed in the Commonwealth of Virginia as I do not have a concealed carry permit yet.  I keep my handgun in a case in my nightstand.

You are comparing apples and orange. DC is way poorer, more urban and younger than Florida. All of which increases the rate of violence, not mentioning the dreadful de facto apartheid.

It's still a much better comparison than comparing Europe and the United States.

Hum that is why 33 mayors of major cities are campaining for gun control.

Mayors of major cities are fallible and stupid human beings as well.

It seems to me that if you have a policy working well, you'd pick it over another one whose effects are at best contrevertial and that has proven to be negative for public health.

Why do municipalities have to pick any policy to the exclusion of another, and again, evidence does not support the idea that gun regulation heightens the safety of the public, at least in this country.
 
So is it even useful to bear a gun?

A lot of people use them for self defence and if my university allowed the sane students to have weapons on campus instead of just the psychotic ones through their ridiculous and unenforced gun free campus policy, they could have saved some lives.

You have to admit that bad people usually have a gun, while Winny the Poo does not

See my preceding post.

Once more it boils down to the traditional "are you ready to kill to save your plasma tv"?

I certainly would kill anybody who burglar broke into my house and do society a big favor.
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 01:40
Originally posted by Genghis

I certainly would kill anybody who burglar broke into my house and do society a big favor.


     Careful, its illegal to use lethal force to protect property. Make sure he's armed before you kill the guy.
Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance

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  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 03:10
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

Originally posted by Genghis

I certainly would kill anybody who burglar broke into my house and do society a big favor.


     Careful, its illegal to use lethal force to protect property. Make sure he's armed before you kill the guy.


You could always just plant your second handgun on him and say he took it from the nightstand or something.
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 03:35
Just get an Idaho burgler alarm, it plays a recording of a shotgun shell being loaded when someone tries to break in.Big%20smile

Edited by DukeC - 01-Jun-2007 at 03:37
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 05:22
Originally posted by Ghengis

So is it even useful to bear a gun?

A lot of people use them for self defence and if my university allowed the sane students to have weapons on campus instead of just the psychotic ones through their ridiculous and unenforced gun free campus policy, they could have saved some lives.

In the same line of reasoning, you could also say that if guns would not have been so readily available, that guy wouldn't have had a gun, and even more lives would have been saved, including his own.
 
How exactly do you figure you are not being emotional on this?

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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 05:24
Originally posted by DukeC

Just get an Idaho burgler alarm, it plays a recording of a shotgun shell being loaded when someone tries to break in.Big%20smile
 
LOL That's pretty cool actually...LOL

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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 07:25
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

Careful, its illegal to use lethal force to protect property. Make sure he's armed before you kill the guy.
 
It depends on the state.  Part of the NRA concealed carry course is to teach you the times its legal to use a firearm.
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 07:28
Originally posted by Adalwolf

[QUOTE=ArmenianSurvival]You could always just plant your second handgun on him and say he took it from the nightstand or something.
 
I only have one handgun.  But a butcher's knife from my kitchen would do fine, or I could just say he was reaching for his pocket or something.
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 07:32
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

In the same line of reasoning, you could also say that if guns would not have been so readily available, that guy wouldn't have had a gun, and even more lives would have been saved, including his own.
 
 
In practice in my country gun regulation has never significantly reduced the ability to obtain firearms by people who desire them.
 
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

How exactly do you figure you are not being emotional on this?
 
I'm pointing out the failures of gun regulation in my country while others are reduced to comparing me to an outlaw?Confused
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 07:57

Obvuously you are not an outlaw, as you are within the rights of your country. It is the wisdom of these laws that is under question here. But to say that you have no emotional input in this discussion is obviously not so. You have a gun for protection, so there are emotions of fear involved.

I can understand that gun regulation in one state does not work if you can still get a gun 100 miles on. But total gunregulation would have that effect. It is true that in Europe, criminals can still get a gun. But the difference is that 'normal' citizens going freaky do not. So the guy in your uni and that guy in the Wendies would not have had a gun. And that is a big difference. These guys could not have done nearly as much damage with a knife.
 
What you also get when guns are banned, is that everybody who has one is a criminal. Very easy for the cops: if they have a gun, they are breaking the law and you can arrest them. And while they are in jail, you can find out what they planned with it.


Edited by Aelfgifu - 01-Jun-2007 at 08:02

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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 09:06

People who freak out still can get guns if they premeditate the action, as the guy at my university obviously did.  Even in Germany there have been school shootings with firearms.  I'm sure even you would agree with me that the differences between the crime rates of Europe and the USA are influenced by much bigger socioeconomic issues than gun ownership.  For those same reasons I am convinced that your country could probably attain a much smaller amount of crime if gun ownership were deregulated, similar to the effect observed in Switzerland.

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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 10:25
I'm sorry to announce you that, in front of a dramatic crime and suicide wave, the Swiss government is thinking on changing its legislation about guns and possibly the whole defence policy.

Besides the ownership of firearms in Switzerland is all but dereulated (ammos are sealed and regularly checked, bearing weapons out of the service is prohibited and there are very severe military checks before a weapon is delivered). As a result there are less weapons per 100 inhabitants in Swizerland than in Canada.

(pssss I thought we weren't allowed to compare the US and Europe)

Finally, you persistantly refuse to deal with the fact that other personal means (non-lethal weapons, passive defense such as alarms and a call to a private security firm) are more efficent than guns AND do not have all the negative effects (no big deal if the criminal steels you buzzer).

Here is the emotional bit. You like guns and you feel safer with one. But the fact is you'd be better off (safe against agression, safe against accidents and unwanted use and no risk to go to jail) if you did not have one.

Finally, on a purely economic base, it would be a very good idea to ban privately owned guns (except hunting weapons that necessitate a different technology). Indeed, if the US market for dangerous weapons dried off, the production of guns would decrease several times over and many manufacturers would only have the professional market to survive.

As a result the quality of guns would rise (there is no regulation in the US for guns domestically produced!), the number of guns the criminals can get on the black market would fall (less and more expensive guns hence less). Happy go lucky situation.

Concerning comparisons why not comparing Frisco (which have very strict gun regulation) with say LA They are fairly similar, and concerning the crime prevalence, well, you ought to know that LA is one of the most dangerous towns in the country.
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 12:41
Originally posted by Genghis

People who freak out still can get guns if they premeditate the action, as the guy at my university obviously did. Even in Germany there have been school shootings with firearms. I'm sure even you would agree with me that the differences between the crime rates of Europe and the USA are influenced by much bigger socioeconomicissues than gun ownership. For those same reasons I am convinced that your country could probably attain a much smaller amount of crime if gun ownership were deregulated, similar to the effect observed in Switzerland.



Hi Genghis
give up - it is pointless arguing with them and I only take serious Americans who hate the second Amendment although everyone has the right to a view point and opinion. It is only when they are citizens and they are actively trying to destroy the second Amendment that I get upset and I consider this an act of treason but that is my opinion and I also have a right to one. They can spout their opinion all they want but for me it is irrelevent, politically speaking. This thread only goes in circles and nobody can change the others mind!!
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 13:16
Eaglecap, if your position it ought to be obvious to all, US citizen or not. And hey! I'll be a legal resident in 3 month.
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 13:34
I still find it strange you'd want to live here when our culture is accepting of the 2nd Amendment, and the majority of citizens believe we should be allowed to have a gun. You seem so against it, yet you're going to live in a nation that accepts the idea of owning a gun more then most?
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 14:41
lol!
 
Umm! I think becoming a US citizen involves more than just sharing an opinion about gun control.
 
btw, bring over some of that French cooking while you're at it Maharbbal.
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 15:06
Umm! I think becoming a US citizen involves more than just sharing an opinion about gun control.
Never said there had to be, did I? He makes it out as those we're in the wild west, brings up how horrible the idea of gun ownership is to the point he wouldn't even trust HIMSELF. So why would you choose to live in a country where the opinion of the citizens is beyond complete opposite of what you feel safety is.
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