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Evolution & Telos
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Paul View Drop Down
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Evolution & Telos
    Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 20:47
A recent study concluded. Chimps are more evolved than humans.
 
Evolution happens in two main ways, positive adaptation through natural selection and random mutation. Both mechanisms are in play for all creatures. While the first is undoubtably both necessary and positive, the second is more questionable. Random mutation in many ways inhibits the natural selection process. As natural selection attempts to make a creatures better suited to its environment random mutation can reverse this.
 
In humans random mutaion is particularly strong and the reason why the population has remianed so homogenous compared to other species. Despite thousands of years of selective breeding in many societies, it's proven impossible with humans to breed thoroughbred or breeds in the way we do with dogs or race horses.
 
In a comparison between Chimps and Humans, recents evolution has shown that Chimps evolution has been controlled much more by natural selection and less by random mutation than humans. Meaning  Chimps are much more suited to their natural environment than humans to theirs. Thus Chimpanzees are much more evolved than humans.
 
Human evolution as we know took a strange turn, when we evolved large brains. But this has somehow arrogantly made us believe we are at the peak of the evolutionary tree, when really brain development is only one part of evolution.
 
Within the concept of evolution can lie a notion of telos. However this seems to contradict it. Can evolution be evolution without telos?
 
 
 
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 09:22
Originally posted by Paul

Within the concept of evolution can lie a notion of telos. However this seems to contradict it. Can evolution be evolution without telos?
 
Yes.
 
What more can I say? Smile I think the rest of what you wrote demonstrates it.
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Posts: 2120 		  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 17:57
I think you are having a far too restricted vision of evolution.

1) there is not only natural selection and randomness (genetic drift) there is also for instance perigenetic evolution and sexual selection

2) the ecological niche is not only determined by the geophysical environment. It is also determined for instance by the aptitude to resist deseases.

3) you seem to forget that the Malthusian pressure kicked hard most of humanity at least till the period 1800-2000. Last great famine in France 1693, 10% of the population died.

4) Why not considering human-made desasters? WWs wept off almost 100millions individuals, quite a strong check isn't it?

5) The only way to mesure the evolution of a spieces (if it has any sense at all) is to consider its fitness in its ecological niche. Great apes are dying off, human seems ok thanks.

6) Finally some elements seems to prove you wrong. First, chimps haven't evolved so much since the last 6 MY Stayed in the jungle eating fruits and all. We move quite a bit. Besides, in the gene called HAR1 (for human accelerated region) shared by all mamals and birds 5 letters have changed in the period 310 MY-5 MY, while since 5 MY there have been 18 changes on its 59 couples. And guess what HAR1 is mainly used for the pre-natal formation of the brain

So there is no real point trying to compare it. But if you really want it: humans are no match for chimps.
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 15:45
I don't think by 'more evolved' was meant 'better suited to the ecological niche'. I think it meant 'has seen more changes'.
 
Whether or not the statement is true I have no idea.
 
I still think the answer to Paul's question is "yes, you can have evolution without requiring a purpose or goal or 'final cause'".
 
 
 
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Paul View Drop Down
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 18:43
If evolution is the process of adapting to our environment surely, a better adapted state is the teleological goal.
 
However if we're not adapting to a better state, but changing by either moving backwards or sidestepping through genetic drift. We still call this evolution.
 
So we must conclude if evolution isn't teleological it must be simply blind random change.
 
If so how does this bode with the evolution of ameba to mammals and all the associated adaptions to the changing environments between. Pure chance.
 
 


Edited by Paul - 19-Apr-2007 at 18:47
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