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Squire
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Topic: the most dangerous snake to humans Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 05:12 |
these are some of the worlds most dangerous snakes seven out of twelve come from Australia which one do you think it is?
Edited by Knights - 15-Apr-2007 at 09:57
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Knights
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Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 05:29 |
Difficult question to answer really. The most potent is the Inland Taipan, or Fierce Snake (I think you have it on the poll as 'Western Taipan'). The most aggressive is harder to classify as it is variable to a further extent. I would go with the Eastern Brown Snake (Australia), King Brown or the Black Mamba - they have serious attitude problems. Large Pythons only pose a real threat if we stumble upon them in their element, like Anacondas in a swamp. If I had to go for one snake that I think poses the most serious threat to humans, I wouldn't go past the Black Mamba, of Africa's savannah. Black Mambas are aggressive snakes that can sprint up to 20km/h - as fast as the average human. In addition to this, they are one of the most venomous snakes in the world. A Black Mambas bite delivers cardiotoxins (which attack the functioning of heart muscles) and neurotoxins (which disrupt the regular functioning of the nervous system), though as with all venomous snakes, 50% of strikes deliver 'dry bites' (no venom is discharged). As far as I know, the Black Mamba's bite has a 100% mortality rate if untreated...the highest of any snake So for me, the Black Mamba takes the cake. - Knights -
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Squire
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Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 05:38 |
I voted reticulated python because it is a very good hider and it has addapted to city enviroment it can hide in trash cans closets pantrees they only need one second to rap round you and crush your bones in the click of a finger.
it is very hostile when it adapted to the city it also adapted to humans it is not afraid of us and it will attack id hungry.
it may be a contrictor but it has a nasty bite wile it crushes your bones it will go for your neck.
as nasty the black mamba and inland typan I still think the reticulated Python is the most dangerous
Edited by Squire - 14-Apr-2007 at 06:28
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Praetor
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Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 07:06 |
This is indeed a most difficult question and at present open to much interpretation.
Knights arguments are quite persuasive as I believe that an aggresive snake, with venom potent enough to kill a human everytime without treatment, that dwells in significant numbers, in an area with a large human population (this is the area where many of Australias most venomous snakes fall short) is the best bet for most dangerous to humans. The Black Mamba meets all these criteria to varying degrees and I am strongly considering voting for it. However there are other snakes that meet these criteria such as the Indian saw-scaled viper which as the name suggests lives in India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan etc. Though not as fast as the Black Mamba it may well live in a more populated area then the African savannah (though admittedly a large portion of the saw-scaled vipers live in the desert) It also comes out in large number after rain which in the non-desert parts of India is very common. So I will hold my vote for now as the candidates are examined more closely.
Regards, Praetor.
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Leonidas
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Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 08:04 |
ive heard of the black (and green) mamba and Knights information was a good read with a compelling holistic argument, but... i voted for inland Taipan purely for venom strength. i can be biased. im not handing that deadliest snake award to any other country as we have soo many here. Why arent more sea snakes included? then we have a real competition.
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Squire
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Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 08:25 |
because its on land snakes if it was on sea snakes aswell nearly the hole list would be sea snakes.Plus im not going to go diving any time soon.
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Knights
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Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 08:57 |
Originally posted by Praetor
Knights arguments are quite persuasive as I believe that an aggresive snake, with venom potent enough to kill a human everytime without treatment, that dwells in significant numbers, in an area with a large human population (this is the area where many of Australias most venomous snakes fall short) is the best bet for most dangerous to humans. |
These are definitely very fitting criteria, and all need to be taken into consideration when determining the world's most 'dangerous' snake. As I and you said, it is a difficult question to answer. I could easily defend the rights of an Inland Taipan, Beaked Sea Snake or King Cobra.etc to being the most dangerous snake - it comes down to opinion in the end.
Originally posted by Praetor
The Black Mamba meets all these criteria to varying degrees and I am strongly considering voting for it. However there are other snakes that meet these criteria such as the Indian saw-scaled viper which as the name suggests lives in India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan etc. Though not as fast as the Black Mamba it may well live in a more populated area then the African savannah (though admittedly a large portion of the saw-scaled vipers live in the desert) It also comes out in large number after rain which in the non-desert parts of India is very common. So I will hold my vote for now as the candidates are examined more closely. |
Well the snake most notorious for biting people is the Russell's Viper, accounting for over 1000 deaths in Asia each year. It is common in plantations where workers use their hands and walk through long grass. Other options to consider are the Western Coral Snake Micruroides
euryxanthus which is extremely toxic, even more so than the Eastern
Coral Snake Micrurus fulvius. The Western Coral Snake is a shy snake
and is rarely seen, but if bitten, there is no anti venom available for
this species which in my opinion makes him an extremely dangerous
snake. With coral snakes you can be bitten and 'envenomated' and not have
any reaction for several hours (up to 24 hours or more) but once the
venom does begin to react it reacts very quickly. Corals snake venom
contains neurotoxins which will paralyze it's victim eventually killing
it from cardiac/respiratory arrest. The list goes on...
Originally posted by Leonidas
i voted for inland Taipan purely for venom strength. i can be biased.
im not handing that deadliest snake award to any other country as we
have soo many here |
I'd be perfectly content with going along with the Fierce Snake (Inland Taipan) being the most dangerous, there isn't really much difference, when it comes down to it. Overall, we Aussies annihilate the competition in terms of dangerous snakes.
Originally posted by Leonidas
Why arent more sea snakes included? then we have a real competition.
Originally posted by Squire
because its on land snakes |
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Squire, the Sea Krait is on there is it not - that's not an entirely terrestrial snake. Either way, the Beaked Sea Snake should be on the list...and possibly yellow bellied Sea Snake. Good list still, because people can bring up those non mentioned. - Knights -
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red clay
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Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 09:15 |
The Eastern Cotton Mouth, 80% deadly without treatment and can be extremely agressive. It's most commonly found in the Southeast US, with a sub specie found in Florida. It's also called a Water Moccasin.
Edited by red clay - 14-Apr-2007 at 09:28
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Knights
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Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 09:26 |
The Eastern Cottonmouth would have to be a contender too. I would say that being bitten by one of them and surviving would be amongst the worst. An Eastern Cottonmouth has haemotoxic enzymes and other proteins that are present in the venom. Haemotoxins have horrific consequences, as the haemotoxins attack the red blood cells and muscles/tissues and organs. Haemolysis occurs and terrible tissue destruction follows. Haemotoxins cause a far slower and more painful death, as you do not become paralyzed (neurotoxins). The Russell's Viper mentioned above also has haemotoxins.
- Knights -
Edited by Knights - 14-Apr-2007 at 09:31
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rider
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Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 14:18 |
I voted King Brown due to it's aggressive temper but... I am sure that any snake which has enough willpower will kill a man... (oh.. how I loved "Snakes On a Plane".... "I've had it with these motha****ing snakes on this motha****ing plane..":D
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pekau
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Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 22:55 |
Originally posted by Knights
Difficult question to answer really. The most potent is the Inland Taipan, or Fierce Snake (I think you have it on the poll as 'Western Taipan'). The most aggressive is harder to classify as it is variable to a further extent. I would go with the Eastern Brown Snake (Australia), King Brown or the Black Mamba - they have serious attitude problems. Large Pythons only pose a real threat if we stumble upon them in their element, like Anacondas in a swamp. If I had to go for one snake that I think poses the most serious threat to humans, I wouldn't go past the Black Mamba, of Africa's savannah. Black Mambas are aggressive snakes that can sprint up to 20km/h - as fast as the average human. In addition to this, they are one of the most venomous snakes in the world. A Black Mambas bite delivers cardiotoxins (which attack the functioning of heart muscles) and neurotoxins (which disrupt the regular functioning of the nervous system), though as with all venomous snakes, 50% of strikes deliver 'dry bites' (no venom is discharged). As far as I know, the Black Mamba's bite has a 100% mortality rate if untreated...the highest of any snake So for me, the Black Mamba takes the cake.
- Knights - |
Agreed.
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Knights
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Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 23:23 |
Originally posted by rider
I voted King Brown due to it's aggressive temper but... I am sure that any snake which has enough willpower will kill a man... |
King Brown...I always thought Eastern Browns to be more aggressive, could be wrong though. Any snake that has the willpower will kill a man? How about the Antillean Thread Snake of the West-Indies?
After some research, I have compiled a short overview of the top 3 most dangerous snakes, in my opinion. (No particular order, and sketchy at this stage)
Black Mamba Dendroaspis
polylepis
Growing up to 3.5m, this streamlined brown-grey elapid[1]
is famed for its ability to reach speeds of up to 20km/h over short bursts
faster than the average human. Considered by most experts (Hunter 1999; Johnson
2000) to be the most aggressive of all snakes, the Black Mamba commonly attacks
unprovoked.
Black Mambas are Proteroglyphs, meaning they have small, stationary front
fangs. These fangs deliver deadly neurotoxins and cardiotoxins.
Neurotoxins disrupt the proper functioning of the nervous system and brain, by
destroying neurons. The cardiotoxins affect the heart muscles, disallowing the
heart to pump at full efficiency and resulting in heart failure and cardiac
arrest.
Prior to antivenom, 100% of Black Mambas bites were fatal, while 100% of
victims die nowadays if not medicated rapidly. The neurotoxins/cardiotoxins are
very fast acting.
The Black Mamba is an aggressive, fast and extremely venomous snake, efficiently
killing victims with rapid speed.
Fierce Snake Oxyuranus scutellatus
Contrary to its name, the Fierce Snake is a timid and docile inhabitant of the
inner regions of Australia.
Despite possessing the most potent venom of all snakes, this elapid has never
caused a fatality. A very effective antivenin has been developed.
Again, the Taipan has extremely neurotoxic venom, working very quickly to
disrupt the nervous system and causing entire paralysis.
Though not aggressive, it will attack when provoked and arch into the position
from which its namesake is derived fierce.
Saw Scaled Viper Echis carinatus
A very small viper native
to Central Asia, Middle East and India. As a genus, Saw Scaled Vipers
cause the most fatalities each year (See Appendix 1). Not known for unprovoked
attacks, the Saw Scaled Viper is a crepuscular (active at dawn and dusk) Solenoglyph
(huge movable frontal fangs able to be rotated out 180 degrees). When alarmed
they rub their rough scales together to make a shrilling noise. As most vipers are, the
Saw Scaled is haemotoxic causing a slow and extremely agonising death. Of
the more dangerous systemic symptoms, hemorrhage
and coagulation defects are the most striking. Hematemesis, melena, hemoptysis, hematuria
and epistaxis
also occur and may lead to hypovolmic shock. Almost all patients develop oliguria
or anuria within a few hours to as late as 6 days post bite. In some cases, kidney dialysis is necessary due to acute renal failure, but this is not often
caused by hypotension.
It is more often the result of intravascular haemolysis,
which occurs in about half of all cases. In other cases, acute renal failure is
often caused by disseminated intravascular coagulation[2].
In summary, if you get bitten, youre dead.
Other Honourable Mentions - Venomous
Russell's Viper Fer-De-Lance (Lancehead) Water Moccasin Banded Sea Krait King and Eastern Brown Snake Boomslang Spitting Cobra (Several species) Beaked Sea Snake Egyptian Cobra Mohave Rattlesnake Numerous more...
Other Honourable Mentions - Non Venomous Green Anaconda Yellow Anaconda Reticulated Python Indian Rock Python African Rock Python Burmese Python
It really is a terribly hard thing to judge, and I'm up for opinions and disagreements.
Appendix
Common Name Number of Deaths Per Year (approximate)
Asian cobras - 15,000
Saw scaled vipers - 10,000
Russells viper - 5,000
Kraits - 3,000
Lance-headed vipers - 3,000
Sources
Burnie, D. (2004). "Animal - the definitive visual guide" Dorling Kindersley, London. pp376-399 Haji, R. (2000). "Venomous Snakes and Snake bite" <http://www.zoocheck.com/programs/exotic/venom/AppendixA.shtml> 15/4/07 Appleby, Y. Finlay, P. (2000). "Bad asp terrorizes Toronto community", The Globe and Mail, p. A18.
[1] Family: Elapidae. Species: 291. Accounting for less than
1/10 of all snake species, all elapids are venomous and include cobras, mambas,
kraits, sea snakes. Classified by the positioning of the fangs in the jaw.
[2] Ali G,
Kak M, Kumar M, Bali SK, Tak SI, Hassan G, Wadhwa MB. 2004. Acute renal failure
following echis carinatus (sawscaled viper) envenomation. Indian Journal of
Nephrology 14:177-181
- Knights -
Edited by Knights - 14-Apr-2007 at 23:27
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Knights
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Posted: 15-Apr-2007 at 01:04 |
I just watched Steve Irwin's Top Ten Deadliest (Most Venomous) Snakes in the World Documentary, and to no surprise, all of them are in Australia. It is available on YouTube in 3 parts: Part 1Part 2Part 3The order of top ten deadliest snakes varies from website to website, so I thought I'd take the experts opinion, that of Steve. Here is the list he presents. Please note, this is the ten most venomous, which is fact based on LD50* testing/sampling and the like. The ten most dangerous are more subjective, and open to interpretation. 10) Western Brown Snake (Aus) Pseudonaja nuchalis9) Death Adder (Aus) Acanthophis cummingi8) Giant/Chappel Island Tiger Snake (Aus) Notechis ater serventyi7) Western Australian Tiger Snake (Aus) Notechis ater occidentalis6) Beaked Sea Snake (Aus) Enhydrina schistosa5) Revesby Island Tiger Snake (Aus) Notechis ater niger4) Eastern/Common Tiger Snake (Aus) Notechis scutatus3) Coastal/Eastern Taipan (Aus) Oxyuranus scutellatus2) Eastern/Common Brown Snake (Aus) Pseudonaja textilis1) Fierce Snake or Inland/Western Taipan (Aus) Oxyuranus microlepidotusHowever, the relative toxicity of the top ten most venomous snakes differs to Steve's slightly, according to Venom researcher Peter Mirtschin of Australia: Inland
Taipan
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Oxyuranus
microlepidotus |
50.0
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Common
Brown Snake
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Pseudonaja
textilis |
12.5
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Taipan
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Oxyuranus
scutellatus |
7.8
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Reevesby
Is. Tiger Snake
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Notechis ater niger |
5.1
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Common
Tiger Snake
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Notechis scutatus |
4.2
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Western
Tiger Snake
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Notechis ater occidentalis |
4.0
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Beaked
sea snake
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Enhydrina
schistosa |
2.9
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Chappell
Is. Tiger Snake
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Notechis
ater serventyi |
1.8
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Common
death adder
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Acanthophis
antarcticus |
1.5
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Western
Brown Snake
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Pseudonaja nuchalis |
1.5 |
The reason for differing results is probably due to varying discharge of venom during LD50 testing. The only difference is the Eastern Tiger Snake and Revesby Island Tiger Snake, who have alternated no.4 and 5. So there you have it, a pretty comprehensive overview of the world's most venomous (not dangerous!) snakes. Slightly off-topic, this is Knights's favourite snake, the beautiful Black Headed Python Aspidites melanocephalus, of Australia. They have such a docile and friendly nature. Such magnificent colouration and markings ^ * Lethal Dose per 50% of tested population. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50I know Squire voted Reticulated Python, Leonidas, Fierce Snake, Rider, King Brown Snake and myself, the Black Mamba. May I ask which other two people voted for the Black Mamba? - Knights - EDIT: Scientific names sourced from: Burnie, D. (2004). "Animal - the definitive visual guide" Dorling Kindersley, London. pp378-399
Edited by Knights - 15-Apr-2007 at 01:17
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Cywr
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Posted: 15-Apr-2007 at 07:59 |
Black mambas are also supposed to be pretty agressive. They get my vote.
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rider
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Posted: 15-Apr-2007 at 09:57 |
Originally posted by Knights
Slightly off-topic, this is Knights's favourite snake, the beautiful Black Headed Python Aspidites melanocephalus, of Australia. They have such a docile and friendly nature. |
Speaking of yourself in third-person isn't usually a sign that everything is okay:D... But... I think that the Mamba should be on the 10 Most Killersnake List. BTW, do you think that the Green Mamba might have more kills per year than the Black one?
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Knights
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Posted: 15-Apr-2007 at 10:08 |
In this case, it is a sign of good health I wouldn't imagine that the Green Mamba would cause more fatalities. My reasoning being: - it is mainly arboreal and does not spend much time on the ground, where humans usually are... - they are far less aggressive than their Black cousins - smaller, therefore less of a venom yield - far less potent venom - Knights -
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rider
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Posted: 15-Apr-2007 at 10:19 |
Well, but when people climb trees? I think they kill more people in that... (I'd imagine an inter-Mamba trap... Black follows person to a tree, Green ambushes from the tree:D).
BTW, what was the snake that killed one of the Mayans in the Apocalypto? It seemed pretty fierce (attacked without reason)...
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Knights
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Posted: 15-Apr-2007 at 10:27 |
Well, I have not seen Apocalypto, but I think I might have an idea which snake it might be. My guess would either be the... Common Lancehead Bothrops atrox
or the Bushmaster Lachesis mutaIf it doesn't seem to be either of those, let me know, I have a few other options. - Knights -
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rider
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Posted: 15-Apr-2007 at 10:29 |
It doesn't seem to be either... I think it had a greenish colour. Not sure however, don't remember well. It wasn't definetly as large as the Bushmaster...
The snake was residing on a tree branch it seemed to, it turned when the person stopped at the tree, bit and jumped to the ground trying to get away.
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Posted: 15-Apr-2007 at 10:44 |
Hmmh. I was thinking, perhaps you could also present what you think are the three most poisonous or killing sea snakes in the world (might as well do it to five sea ones). Sea snakes aren't especially common in Europe and it might be more interesting than the ordinary land ones.
Thanks,
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