Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Decebal
Arch Duke
Digital Prometheus
Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Afrocentrism Posted: 02-Apr-2007 at 16:55 |
This is a good article written by a white Egyptologist who teaches at Howard university, which is almost exclusively frequented by black students. Provides some good perspective:
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/afrocent_roth.html
Edited: it is Howard, and not Brown University...
Edited by Decebal - 23-Apr-2007 at 10:10
|
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte
Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Apr-2007 at 21:04 |
Good article, thanks Decebal.
|
|
Spartakus
Tsar
terörist
Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 04:07 |
I agree.Very good.
|
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 04:08 |
That link is a bunch of nonsense, just a ad-hominem attack.
|
|
red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus
Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 09:50 |
Originally posted by X-Ras
That link is a bunch of nonsense, just a ad-hominem attack. |
Having, in essence, just told me that you didn't read the article, why don't you go back and do so. You will find that it is not an attack of any kind, but rather a scholarly read. Quite well sourced and well written.
|
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 10:18 |
Be careful, Red Clay. The guy is promoting an agenda. I believe.
|
|
malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous
Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 11:00 |
"Race, then, is essentially a social concept, native to the society in which one lives."
One may add to that the perception of colour, where European "black/white" is not the same as North African "black/white".
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 14:12 |
Originally posted by red clay
Originally posted by X-Ras
That link is a bunch of nonsense, just a ad-hominem attack. |
Having, in essence, just told me that you didn't read the article, why don't you go back and do so. You will find that it is not an attack of any kind, but rather a scholarly read. Quite well sourced and well written.
|
This is the same Ann Roth who said Nubians were not black, give me a break, I'm well aware of these straw attacks on Afrocentrism.
|
|
Joinville
Consul
Joined: 29-Sep-2006
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 353
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 17:31 |
Originally posted by X-Ras
This is the same Ann Roth who said Nubians were not black, give me a break, I'm well aware of these straw attacks on Afrocentrism. |
I believe the issue then is what is meant by "black". She would have been saying they were "Nubian".
The question is if "Nubian" and "black" are interchangeable here? Either black is too unspecific to mean anything in itself, or it is so specific applying it to the ancient Nubians becomes problematic.
So exactly what is meant by black?
I always find re-reading Fanon's "Black Skin, White Masks" a pretty good start.
|
One must not insult the future.
|
|
Decebal
Arch Duke
Digital Prometheus
Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Apr-2007 at 10:09 |
Could you provide a link, X-Ras to the article or some other place where this author said that the Nubians were not black? I find it very doubtful that a history professor teaching at Howard would make such a statement, at least literally.
|
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte
Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
|
|
red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus
Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Apr-2007 at 17:47 |
Originally posted by pinguin
Be careful, Red Clay. The guy is promoting an agenda. I believe. |
|
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Apr-2007 at 15:02 |
Originally posted by X-Ras
This is the same Ann Roth who said Nubians were not black, give me a break, I'm well aware of these straw attacks on Afrocentrism. |
Does it even matter? The discussion if Nubians are black is more relevant for the definition of black than for the characteristics of the Nubians.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 12:42 |
Originally posted by Mixcoatl
Originally posted by X-Ras
This is the same Ann Roth who said Nubians were not black, give me a break, I'm well aware of these straw attacks on Afrocentrism. | Does it even matter?The discussion if Nubians are black is more relevant for the definition of black than for the characteristics of the Nubians. |
Well th Nubians and Ancient Egyptians were blacks, so I don't see where the problem lies.
|
|
Decebal
Arch Duke
Digital Prometheus
Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 12:57 |
Nubians: I agree, they were what one would call black. Ancient Egyptians... we've had several really long discussions about it already. The best answer is that they were most likely a multiracial society, similar to today's Brazilians for example, or for that matter to today's Egyptians. They had "black" people and they had "white" people, and most of them were somewhere in between. To argue that they were exclusively one or the other is misguided and smacks of racism.
|
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte
Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 13:04 |
Originally posted by Decebal
Nubians: I agree, they were what one would callblack. Ancient Egyptians... we've had several really long discussions about it already. The best answer is that they were most likely a multiracial society, similar to today's Brazilians for example, or for that matter to today's Egyptians. They had "black" people and they had "white" people, and most of them were somewhere in between. To argue that they were exclusively one or the other is misguided and smacks of racism. |
LMAO, AE had no "white" people, a look at the artwork as well as the physical anthropology of the peoples proves beyond all doubt that Ancient Egyptian peoples were certainly more continuous with other Nile Valley populations and more related to them, that is if one is willing to accept that Nile Valley peoples from Egypt to the Horn of Africa are diverse peoples. The multi-racial argument doesn't work nor does it have any support.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 13:17 |
X-RAS,
You have an "Afrocentric" agenda, haven't you?
I believe this site is for discussing history with facts, not for spreading agendas.
Pinguin
|
|
hugoestr
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 13:32 |
X-RAS has not read the article yet. Why don't we give him or her some time to do so?
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 14:36 |
Originally posted by pinguin
X-RAS,
You have an "Afrocentric" agenda, haven't you?
I believe this site is for discussing history with facts, not for spreading agendas.
Pinguin |
No, i have no Afrocentric agenda, please don't use that cliched strawman because it will not work. If you can't argue in favor of your view, don't use a strawman.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 14:38 |
Originally posted by hugoestr
X-RAS has not read the article yet. Why don't we give him or her some time to do so? |
I read that article years ago and saw a critique of in Richard Poe's "Black Spark, White Fire" book, so I'm well familiar with it. Making straw attacks on Afrocentrism isn't going to change the fact that ancient Egyptian civilization was African and its people were indigenous, biological Africans.
|
|
Joinville
Consul
Joined: 29-Sep-2006
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 353
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 17:10 |
What the hell is a "biological African" here? What is not a biological African? Geographical Africans seem entirely unproblematic in the context. But "biological"?
|
One must not insult the future.
|
|