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Exarchus View Drop Down
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  Quote Exarchus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Character discussion
    Posted: 25-Apr-2005 at 09:24
This picture is really amazing.

The character himself was mercyless, but he took a great part in making France what is it now.
Vae victis!
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giani_82 View Drop Down
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  Quote giani_82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2005 at 04:41

I support the opinion that he was a "great statesman" responsible for the stop of the conflicts between catholics and protestants, having a great influence in centralizing the rule of the monarch, and reorganizing the army. His diplomatic ability aided him on several occasions during the 30 year war and still many historians believe that his reorganization of the French army actually brought the end to the Spanish supremacy in Europe.

In my opinion, he is the prototype of a modern day politician who'd use every means to finalize his goals. Actually his work very much contributed to the rising of France among the greatest powers in the world.

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pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2005 at 20:19

giani:

Richelieu was a formidable intellect and servant of the Crown, but also a great gambler.  The intervention in Italy in 1629 against Habsburg moves in Mantua, and the declaration of war against Spain in 1635 were risky adventures as the French army was both poorly prepared and supplied, and also only experienced against Huguenot fortifications and against an English force badly handled off La Rochelle.

In order to have a substantial military force that had experience in the field, France hired the services of Duke Bernhard of Saxe-Weimar from the Swedish service in 1635.  Richelieu knew of the problems of the French armies, and gambled that this experienced force would be able to cover for the inexperience of the French and for the egos of the Marechals of France who specialized in quaralling with each other over precedence and matters of honor.  Noble rebellions also caused problems such as the affair of Cinq Mars in the 1630s.  (The french have always been the French.)   

Anyway, the French army was not really reformed until after the first two wars under Louis XIV...the "War of Devolution" in the late 1660s, and the Dutch War of 1672.  Richelieu was undoubtedly a great statesman, but Cardinal Mazarini had more impact on the rise of France after Richelieu's death in 1642.  Still, his reputation is deserved....a realistic politician who combined the legitimacy of Church and King, and who did "what had to be done" to preserve and empower France. 

He was a gambler, but some people are lucky, and sometimes it IS better to be lucky than good.

 

  

 

 

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Mosquito View Drop Down
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 16:10

Ok, here is my proposition for character discussion. I know it wont be easy for you. Maybe too difficult as history of my country is not as well known as french history. Do you know  the man on the picture? (Poles please dont answer it). I mean the one carried by people with papers in his hand.

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Frederick Roger View Drop Down
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  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 17:00
Is it King Stanislaw August?
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Mosquito View Drop Down
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 17:09

Originally posted by Frederick Roger

Is it King Stanislaw August?

excellent, im surprised that someone from Portugal recognised him so fast. Congratulations! Stanislaw August Poniatowski, the last king of Poland, a character completelly different than Richelieu, much weaker man.



Edited by Mosquito
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Frederick Roger View Drop Down
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  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2005 at 08:22
Well, I figured it out by the late 18th century garments. Not so aware of its role in polish history. Wasn't he sort of a russian puppet, although a kind of reformist?

Edited by Frederick Roger
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Mosquito View Drop Down
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2005 at 13:59
He was a lover of Catherine the Great and her support made him the king of Poland and Lithuania. For sure he was intelligent and enlighted altough very weak. He was use to spent a lot of time with painters, writers, poets. On the political scene he wanted to strenghten Poland and to free it from russian influence. So he suported the reforms of the goverment and army and helped to enact the consitution of 3rd may in 1791. So the picture shows the king with consitutution in his hand being carried by the marshal of parliament and the people of Warsaw, after it was passed by parliament. But soon conservative oposition revolted, sponsored by Russia and Prussia. Catherine forced king to change the front so he betrayed constitution and joined the enemies. Finally abdicated.
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