The surving Spartan language

I've started this thread in the memory of my uncle who passed away 13 years ago. I got many of his books related to historical matters. I was surprised to see, that he made some studies on the Spartan language.

I have recently been interrested in all Doric forms of Greek that survive in our days. This is my first thread regarding the largest linguistic group of Dorian speakers surviving today.

The Lakonian language, aka Tsakonian or Baconian is a dialect spoken in Tsakonia-Kynouria (also written Cynouria), a sub division of the Laconia perfecture in Peloponnesos.  During the end of the bronze age the Mycenaean civilization had lost its glory. Greek speaking people migrated southwards from Macedonia and the Pindus mountains and displaced the Mycenaeans. This migration was recorded by the ancient historians as "Η κάθοδος των Δοριαίων" (=The comming of the Dorians). The Dorians got their name from Dorus, grandson of Deucalion and Pyrrha, son of Hellen. Their language was spoken in a large number of places in Hellas and its colonies. During the Hellenistic age, Alexander the Great standardized the Hellenic language by introducing the Κοινή (Koine, common language of the Hellenes). The Spartans however continued through the ages to speak their Doric tongue.

2300 years later, the Spartan language is still spoken in the villages around Sparta and Kynouria. The Tsakonian is one of the official dialects of the Hellenic republic. Until june 1997 the language was teached in schools of Laconia. It is characterized by longer `O`-s, replacements of the final `Ω` with the dyphthogos `ου`, the convertion of φ to β, φ to κ etc. Before getting into details, lets take a look to the history of the area of Kynouria.

Kynouria got its name from Kynouros[1], son of Perseus and Andromeda. It was inhabited by 7 tribes[2], where two of them were autochthonus Hellenes of Ionian/Pelasgian[3] origin. Most of the people were Arcadians and Argeads and were all together called Kynourioi.

[1] "Λέγονται δε οι Κυνουρείς Αργείοι το ανέκαθεν είναι και οικιστήν φλασιν αυτών Κύνουρον γενέσθαι του Περσέως" (Pausanias, Lakonika, 11, 207.2)

[2] "Οικέει τε την Πελοπόννησον εθνέα επτά, τούτων δέ τα μεν δύο αυτόχθονα εόντα κατά χώρην ίδρυται νυν τη και το παλαί οίκεον, Αρκάδες τε και Κυνούριοι"
(Herodotus, VIII, 73)

        [3] "Οι Κυνούριοι αυτόχθονες έοντες δοκέισι μούνοι είναι Ίωνες"

Kynourian tribes lived also outside Kynouria and Laconia. Some tribes mentioned as Kynourians from the ancient writers are:

- Gortis
- Lycaioi
- Kynosoureis
- Orneitai
- Elatians

The Phoenicians brought the worshipping of god Dionysus at Kynouria at a time that cannot be placed by ancient authors. It is said that Dionisus told the inhabitants of mount Parnon how to produce wine. He also probably brought the figs since in Sparta the temple of Dionysus is called `Ναός Διονύσιου Συκίτου`(Temple of Dionysus Fig). The nymph Filira and Cronus gave birth to the centaur and great healer Cheiron. From Cheiron, came other centaurs like the evil ones Agchios, Rikos, Ilaios and Elatos, who Herakles fought against. Kynouria is known as the land of the centaurs. 

Kynourias position was of great strategecal value and therefore both Spartans and Argeads fought for it. Another reason was the valley of Thyreas, that had a very fertile ground.

In 770 BC the King of Sparta Echestratus, conquered Kynouria in order to controll the constant attacks of the Kynourians.

"Επι δε Εχεστράτου της Αγίδος βασιλεύοντος εν Σπάρτη Κυνουρέας τους εν τη ηλικία Λακεδαιμόνιοι πιούσιν ανάστατους αιτίαν επενεγκόντες ως την Αργολίδα, συγγενών σφίσιν όντων Αργειών, λησταί τε εκ της Κυνουριακής κακουργοιέν και αυτοί καταδρομάς εκ του φανερού ποιούντο εις την γην..." (Pausanias, Lakonika II, 207.2)

In 600 BC the Spartans succeeded to conquer Kynouria and Thyrea again. The Argeads suffered such a heavy loss that they shaved their heads and created a law which did not allow the women to wear golden jewellery until Kyrouria became Argead again. (Herodotus 1.82)

In 547 BC the famous battle of the 600 Logades (Λογάς = chosen soldiers) took place. Each side (Sparta - Argos) had to choose 300 men who would fight each other. The winner should take under his control the valley of Thyrea (Strabo, VII). From this battle 3 people survived: The argeads Alkinor and Chromius and the spartan Othriades. While the argeads headed to Argos to announce happily their victory, Othriades removed the armour of the dead Argeads and with spartan blood he wrote on their bodies "AGAINST THE ARGEADS" and commited a suicide.

When the Argeads returned to recieve the territory, the Spartans did not agree that there was a clear victory. Then a massive battle occured where the Spartans defeated the Argeads and got the possesion of Thyrea once again.

In 431 BC the Spartans gave shelter in Thyrea to the Aiginians, who the Athenians had displaced (Thukidedes B 27,2).

In 338 BC Philip of Macedon declared the autonomy of the city states and the Argeads asked the Macedonian court to decide the possesion of Thyrea. For obvious reasons it was given to the Argeads ("Δίκην νικήσαντες", Pausanias).

The greater area of Kynouria kept the ethnic Hellenic religion until the 11th century  AD. In the 13th century christian monasteries were built in the area.

That was a quick review of the history in the area. Time to go further with the language.

The verbs of the Tsakonian language follow the same rules as in Koine. However, it forms more consonants when many vowels occur.

A) Alfa is pronounced like in any Hellenic language. It does however replace η (pron i) when it occurs in the beginning or the end of a word e.g αμέρα/amera (ημέρα/imera =day), στρατιώτα/stratiota (στρατιώτης/stratiotis =soldier).

Ε) Epsilon is usually replaced with η and α like in other doric dialects e.g Βασιλήα/Vasilia instead of βασιλέα/Vasilea, ήσκασαν/iskasan instead of έσκασαν/eskasan.

O) Omicron is converted to ου (pron. ou) like in other doric dialects ουφις/oufis (όφις/ofis =snake), τούμα/tumma (στόμα/stomma =mouth).

Υ) Ypsilon is converted to ου (pron. ou) σούκα/souka (σύκα/sicka =figs), άρτουμα/artouma (άρτυμα/artima =bread)

Ω) Omega is like omicron and is replaced often by ου: μουρήα/mourea (μωρέα/moraea), κουνές/kounaes (κώνος/koonos =cone), κουπί /koupi (κωπή/kopi =scar).


Β) Vita, becomes `μπ`(pron b) when written twice e.g Σάμπατο /Sabbato (Σάββατο =saturday), κάμπα/kabba (κάββα/kavva).

Γ) gamma becomes tz when written twice e.g Ατζελε/Atzele (Άγγελος/Aggelos =angel), Ατζάχου/Atzachu (εγγίζω/eggezo =to bring closer)

Θ) theta is rarely pronounced. It is replaced by σ (s): συατήρ/siatir (θυγατήρ/Thegatir =daughter), νέσου/naessu (νήθω/netho =lay)

Κ) kappa sometimes replaces π: κίκρα/kekra (πίκρα/pekra =sour), and sometimes becomes `ts` like in Crete Τσύριος/Tsirios (Κύριος/Kerios =sir).

Λ) Lambda is only pronounced when a word has depth: αλλήου/alleou, αλήσω/alleso (λαλήσω/laleso =futuristic form of "speak") otherwise it dissappears completely: Θασσα/Thassa (θάλλασα/Thalassa =sea), όγος/oghos (λόγος/loghos =speech), άχανα/achana (λάχανα/lachana =cabbage).

Μ) mi is converted to ν (n) in front of η, ι ,υ: ζηνια/zenia (ζημιά/zemia =damage), Νιχάήλ/Nichael (Μιχαήλ/Michael [the internation name])

Ξ) ksi is pronounced very fast and replaces kappa (K) sometimes: ξυττάζου/xytazou (κοιτάζω/ketazo = I look). When it occurs in the beggining of a word it becomes `ts`: τσάδελφος/tsadaelfos (ξάδελφος/xadaelfos =cousin), τσερά/tsera (ξηρά/xyra =dry land).

Π) Pi is replaced by kappa (K) before iota (I): κίνου/kenou (πίνω/peeno =I drink)

Ρ) ro has a sch and ζ (z) sounding in certain cases: δζινύ/(it is impossible to pronounce for an attic or non greek speaker) (δριμύ/dremy =penetrating), schαφτης/shaftes (ράφτης/raftes =tailor)

Τ) taf, is also pronounced as `ts` in certain cases: τσι/tsi (τι/ti =what), γιατσί/giatsi (γιατί/giati =why?), τσίπτα/tseepta (τίποτα/tipota =nothing) and becomes κ (K) in other cases: ποκήρι/pokeeri (ποτήριον/potirion =drinking glass), χαρκί/charki (χαρτί/charti =paper)

Φ) F is very interresting cause changes sometimes to θ or β. The Tsakonian dialect proves that the hypothetical non-greek conversion of φ to β in the ancient macedonian language is a poor remark. Φίλιππος (Philippos) is pronounced Bιλιππος (Vileppos) by some, φασούλι/fasoulee (φασόλι/fasoli) is pronounced βασούλι/vasouli. The letter F shows that it has anomalies in all dorian dialects and is not a unique characteristic of the Μακεδονιστήν (see also Bithynian Greek, Karpathika Greek, who belong both in the same diatopy). Its conversion to θ occurs in words like: καρθί/karthi (καρφί/karfi =nail), κούθιος/kouthios (κούφιος/koufios =empty), δοθύρι/dhothiri (γεφύριον/jefyrion =bridge).

Some Tsakonian words:

Αβουτάνα/Αβουτάνα: the ears
Αβρούτες/Abroutes: eyebrows
Αγραίζου/Aghriazou: equivalent to ιππεύω/ippevo (ride). While in attic, a noun is converted to a verb directly (ίππος --> ιππεύω) the Doric dialects have words discribing a process. This word means to ride after taming the animal.
Άγιε/aghie: saint
Αγρίδι/Agridi: Small village
Aΐ, Αιόν/Ai, Eon: Olive Oil (Ελαιόν), Λάδι/ladi (demotic) means olive oil
Άλιτα/Alita: flour
Άντε/Ante: bred (attic Άρτος)
Αού/Aaou: speak (attic Λαλώ)
Απαντσια/Apantsia: (attic Απέναντι) towards, derives from the proto-Greek απάντιον.
Άπαρρα/Πάρχαρρα/Apparra/Parchara: vegetables, grass. Similar to the pontian παρχάρια (grass, greenland, green mountain).
Απογούμεν/Appogoumen: (attic Αποκρίνομαι, απαντώ) I respond. Derives from the verb Απολογούμαι.
Απολύου/Apolyou: (Attic αποστέλνω) I send.
Aπομπού/Apobu: (attic Αποκοιμούμε) I fell asleep.
Αραμού/Aramu: to stay still. It derived from the verb ηρεμώ/iremo (to calm down) where the η in Dorian dialects become α.
Αργά/Argha: (attic βράδυ/vradi) late evening. Inherited in modern greek when you want to say that you're gonna be late at night `Γύρισα αργά το βράδυ.
Ατσί/Atsi: (attic άλας) salt.
Αφέγκης/Afegis: father (from ancient greek αυθέντης οίκων =head of the house)
Βανέ/Vane: Sheep
Βατσούλι/Batsouli: diminutive form of water
Boou/Voou: I cry
Γρούσσα/Groussa: Language/Tonge (attic Γλώσσα/Glossa)
Δαίσου/Daesou: burn
Δεήματα/Deimata: courgettes
Eδαρί/Edhari: Now
Εστερικαί/Esterikai: mad/hysteric
Εμπρασι/Ebrasi: child deseace
Ερια/Eria: Hair
Καλέ/Kale: wood (ancient spartan kalοn)
Κάραβος/Karabos: a gate
Κυπτα/Kipta: nowhere
Καπζί/Kapzi: child
Κογγύχου/Kogichou: moan
Κούε/Koue: (attic κύων) dog
Λεφού/Lefou: I clean
Μακού/Makou: long
Ματήρ/Matir: mother (attic μητήρ/mitir, demotic μητέρα)
Μόζου/Mozou: I suffer (probably from the attic μογέω/mogheo)
Νήου/Niou: to hear
Νοητέ/Noite: clever, intellectual
Οπάκα/Opaka: something that is hanging
Όποκα/Opoka: Every time/whenever (attic όποτε/opote)
Ούρα/Oura: Time
Πασιέ/Pasie: many
Πορέ/pore: a door, synomym to karabos in certain cases.
Πούα/Poua: leg
Ρυτά/Ryta: immediately, straight
Σάτσι/Satsi: this year
Σείε/Sie: uncle
Σούκο/Souko: the nose
Σούνου/Sounou: I arrive
Συατί/Syati: daughter
Ταραμονή/Taramoni: earthquake (from the word tarachi which means upset)
Τσάκων/Λάκων/Tsakon/Lakon: A speaker of the Laconian/Tsakonian/Baconian language (Lakon from Lakedaimon =Spartan).
Τσέα/Tsea: House
Τιτύρι/Tityri: flute
Υζέ/Yze: son (attic Υιός)
Yό/Ιo: water (attic ύδωρ/idor)

Some Tsakonian Grammar:

Ενεί: Enee =i am
Εσεί: Esi =you are
Ενί: Eni =he/she/it is
Έμε: Eme =we are
Έτε: Ete =you are
Είνι: Eeni = they are

Έμα: Ema = I was
Έσα: Esa = You were
Έκη: Eki =he/she/it was
Έμαϊ: Emai =we were
Έταϊ: Etai =you were
Ήγκιαϊ: Igiai =they were

φερήκου (males) φερήκα (females): ferikou/ferika = I bring
φερήκεις: ferikis =you bring
φερήκει: feriki =he/she/it brings
φερήκουντε: ferikoude =we bring
φερήκουτε: ferikoute =you bring
φερήκουσι: ferikousi =they bring

Some Tsakonian lyrics:

[original song]
Πουλάκι έμα έχα τθο κλουβί τσαί μερουτέ ωι έμα έχα
τάχιγα νι εμα ζάχαρι ποκίχα νι έμα μόσκο,
τσαί από το μόσκο το περσού τσαί από τα μυρωδιά
εσκαντάλιστε το κλουβί τσ' εφύντζε μι τ'αϊδίνι.
Τσ'αφέγκι σι νιε τσυνηγού με το κλουβί τθα χέρα.
Έλα πουλί τθο τόπο ωτι έλα τθα κατοιτσία
ω'αλάτσου τα κουδούνια ωτι να βάλου άλλα τσαινούρζα.

[In lating characters for pronounciation]
Poulaki ema echa t-tho klouvi tse meroute oi ema echa
tachigha ni ema zachari pokicha ema mosko
tse apo to mosko to persu tse apo ta mirodia
eskantaliste to klouvi ts efitze mi taidine.
Tsafegi si ni tsinighou me to klouvi t-tha chera
Ela pouli t-tho topo oti ela t-tha katitsia
o alatsou ta koudhounia oti na valou alla tsenourza

[In modern Greek]
Πουλάκι είχα στο κλουβί και μερομένο/χαρούμενο το είχα.
το τάιζα ζάχαρι και το πότιζα μόσχο
και από τον πολύ τον μόσχο και την μυρωδιά του
εσκανταλίστη και το κλουβί και μου έφυγε τ'αϊδόνι
Κι ο αφέντης το κυνηγάει με το κλουβί στο χέρι:
Έλα πουλί στον τόπο σου, έλα στην κατοικία σου
ν'αλλάξω τα κουδούνια σου να βάλω άλλα καινούργια

[Modern Greek pronounciation - Latin guideline]

Poulaki icha sto klouvi ke meromeno to icha
to taiza zachari ke to potiza moscho
ke apo ton poli ton moscho ke tin mirodia tou
eskantalisti le to klouvi ke mou efyghe taidoni.
ke o afegis to kinigai me to klouvi sto cheri
Ela pouli ston topo sou, ela stin katikia sou
Nallaxo ta koudounia sou na valo alla kenourgia

[English translation]
I had a bird in a cage and i kept it happy
I gave it sugar and wine-grapes
and from the great amount of grapes and their essence,
it got naughty (possibly means it got drunk ) and escaped.
And its master now runs after it with the cage in his hands:
Come my bird back where you belong, come to your house
I will remove your old bells and buy you new ones.

This song is a good example of the difference between Attic and Dorian soundings. To attic speakers this dialect sounds kinda funny. It is what we call nowadays a villagers way of speech. Harch, cut words with no tongue smoothing. Even today, a Demotic speaker with very good knowledge in classical Greek would have difficulties to understand the speech of these people at once. Ofcourse, living in a village of Kynouria for a week would benefit to a vast improvement of the communication. It is not alien for a non Spartan, but it is unusual. The words cannot be recognised at once but need to be processed by the listener first. Ofcourse reading Tsakonian is another issue.

These were just a few words about the Tsakonian. I don't want to be tiresome by writting a whole essay. This is a future task for me.

I used the following sources for my work:

a) About Tsakonians and the Tsakonian dialect by Michael Antoniou Lekou, Library of historical studies, Athens, 1920.

This book is very rare and valuable. It was written during the 19th century when the Tsakonian speakers were still many. I got the reprent of 1920.

b) History and laography of Kastanitsa I and II by Demetrius Georgiou Choupis, published by Kastanitsa Tsakonians worldwide community, Athens 1983.

c) "Reste �lterer Casusbildung im Zakonischen" by M. Deffner,  Nea Hellas 1894.

d) Dictionary of the Tsakonian Language by M. Deffner, Athens 1923.

e) The Modern Greek Language in its Relation to Ancient Greek, E. M Geldart, Oxford: Clarendon Press 1870.

Now, remember that this language is in danger. Some stupid person decided back in 1997 that its teaching in schools should end.

I will end my post with some words written on my first book by my uncle in the Tsakonian language:

ΟΓΗ ΤΑΣΟΥ ΕΜΑΧΟΝΤΑΙ ΟΥΛΑ ΤΘΑ ΚΑΑ ΠΡΑΓΜΑΤΑ

ΚΑΜΨΙΑ ΝΑ ΜΗ ΞΕΧΑμΕ ΤΘΑ ΓΡΟΥΣΣΑ ΝΑ ΜΟΙ.

Here we have all the good things collected.

People/Guys lets not forget our language.

Originally posted by akritas Fliiper the Tsakonian language has a lot of similarities with the ancient Macedonian language as I see. The Dorian blood

Ofcourse there are. I've already underlined some soundings. However, this is not the only doric dialect. I've collected sources in Calabrian Greek, Palladarian (Bithynia), dialect of Syllata (Chalkidiki) and Karpathika. Even though these places are remote to each other, the language has great similarities. The only difference is some local expression and words. The grammar is exactly the same.

Originally posted by Leonidas this should be taught in all schools in laconia! who decided this to be stopped? tsakonian was also spoken in turkey before the population swaps, IIRC near the Hellespont

Exactly Leonida!
It is called propontis Tsakonian. However, it was not imported by Spartans but by the Dorians during the 6th century BC. The dialect is so close that it got also the name "Tsakonian" by the linguists. Basically the doric dialects are so identical even though there might be spoken 1000km from each other.

As for the decision to stop teaching it i donno who did it. The only thing I read is that "The teaching was stopped back in 1997". Nothing more.

Ministry of culture my ***. Excuse me


Edited by Flipper - 18-Mar-2007 at 00:08

Flipper, isnt the worshipping of the god "Dionysus", borrowed by the Greeks, from The Thracians?

Originally posted by Penelope Flipper, isnt the worshipping of the god "Dionysus", borrowed by the Greeks, from The Thracians?

In most cases yes, but not when it comes to the Kynourians.

Originally posted by Spartakus I though that they are not spoken anymore.

tsakonian? its not dead just dying

I have these studies in my own little Tsakonian favourites folder. Hope this adds to you collection Flipper if you dont already have it.


from
APPENDIX A. HISTORY & DIATOPY OF GREEK

Tsakonian (Costakis 1951; Costakis 1986; Haralambopoulos 1980; Pernot 1934) is the most archaic Modern Greek dialect; non-Greek linguists usually refer to it as a distinct language. Tsakonian was identified very early as not mutually intelligible with SMG; Gerlach wrote to Martin Crusius in 1578: and almost all the differences [between Greek dialects] are in pronunciation and a few words. And all of them, from whichever region, understand each other, except for the Ionians who inhabit the Peloponnese� These are called in the vernacular Tsakonians (cited in Triandafyllidis 1981 [1938]:428) Tsakonian has three subdialects (see Map 6). The dialect as spoken in the Peloponnese is subdivided into Northern, spoken in the villages of Kastanitsa and Sitena, and Southern, spoken by the remaining villages in Tsakonia in the Eastern Peloponnese; there is also Propontis Tsakonian, spoken by Tsakonians who migrated to the villages Vatika and Havoutsi on the Sea of Marmara (=�Propontis) some time between xii and xviii�AD,17 and heavily influenced by the more mainstream Thracian dialect of Greek. All Tsakonian speakers are now bilingual with CSMG; it is doubtful that the language is currently spoken by any more than 300 people. Tsakonian has a radically different phonetic and phonological system to CSMG, and its morphology has evolved quite independently of Modern Greek. Tsakonian appears to be descended from the ancient Doric dialect, whereas all other Greek dialects are descended from Hellenistic Koine, which was largely Attic-Ionic.18 Fixing a date on the divergence of Tsakonian from Standard Greek is problematic. If we postulate that Tsakonian is directly descended from Doric, without any Koine admixture, the divergence should be dated at the break-off of Doric from Proto-Greek�some time in the second millenium BC. But this is unreasonable: at every turn, Tsakonian displays evidence of close contact with the Greek mainstream. Phonologically, the split must be dated at around 800; the grammatical data is ambivalent, as SMG innovations are present in Tsakonian, but several innovations made before vi�AD are absent in the language.19 The historical endpoint for the divergence of Tsakonian from Standard Greek seems to be the Slavic invasions of the Peloponnese in viii�AD. Tsakonians were frequently conscripted in the Byzantine army, and were known of in Constantinople 20. 17 Vatika had a population of 323 in 1913, and Havoutsi 171 in 1922 (Costakis 1979:30); since1922, this population was resettled in Greece, and the dialect has now died out. 18 There was some doubt about the Doric parentage earlier this century; the filiation of Tsakonian is no longer disputed. Nonetheless, the influence of Standard Greek on Tsakonian is pervasive, and the possibility of earlier non-Hellenic influence on the morphology has not been conclusively refuted�although there is no substantial evidence for it in the lexicon 19 For further discussion, see Nicholas & Sidwell (1997). The discussion in that paper is couched in terms of lexicostatistics, using the Swadesh-100 list. The Swadesh-100 and 200 lists are lists of core content-word vocabulary (Gudschinsky 1956), through which linguistic divergence has been attempted to be quantified in lexicostatistics. Lexicostatistics remains controversial, particularly in its use to also date divergence (glottochronology); however, it is useful as at least an indicative quantification. In terms of the Swadesh-100 list, Southern Tsakonian has 70% of basic vocabulary cognate with CSMG, but at least 8 of the 70 cognates are recent, phonologically unassimilated loans from CSMG. If the glottochronological constant of 86% retention per millenium of the Swadesh-100 list were assumed to be valid (which it generally is not nowadays), this would give a separation date between Tsakonian and SMG of 400�400�AD (90% confidence interval). 20 The first explicit allusion we have to Tsakonian not being intelligible by Standard Greek speakers comes in the fifteenth century satire Mazaris� Sojourn in Hades (Barry, Share, Smithies & Westerink 1975:65): �I thought I would myself turn into a barbarian, just like the Laconians have become barbarians, and are now called Tsakonians although as Pernot (1934:240) points out, the words Mazaris quotes as �barbaric� are actually Maniot (see below).

Source link

Edited by Leonidas - 20-Mar-2007 at 05:54

Originally posted by Leonidas and almost all the differences [between Greek dialects] are in pronunciation and a few words. And all of them, from whichever region, understand each other, except for the Ionians who inhabit the Peloponnese� These are called in the vernacular Tsakonians (cited in Triandafyllidis 1981 [1938]:428)

Now that I had a look on this thread again, I noticed your post Leonidas.

Triandafyllidis makes a very correct remark here. The Tsakonians are indeed Ionians.

[3] "Οι Κυνούριοι αυτόχθονες έοντες δοκέισι μούνοι είναι Ίωνες"

What makes them different is that they speak Doric, because they became subjects to the Spartans.

Originally posted by Leonidas [QUOTE=Flipper] The same will go for my village Olimbos in Karpathos and, i strongly suspect, the greco's in Calabria.

You're from Karpathos? Wow, interesting! I have a book from Emanuel Manolakakes about the Doric dialect of Karpathos.

I also have some old PDFs that i can't find online anymore about a diatopy refered as "pu", where Tsakonian, Karpathian, Grecanico and other minor dialects are grouped together.

I'm planning to write something about Karpathian in the future based on everything i have collected.

Originally posted by Leonidas i have that pdf myself... "DIATOPY OF COMPLEMENT-pu"  i think i found it in the same place with the paper quoted in this thread. There is a book (i haven't got one and i dont think it is in English) called the 'karpathika' or something very close to that. It is a very rare book that just describes the Karpathians and their history. if you find it tell me! You want pictures the award winning 'A Greek Portfolio' by Constantine Manos has beauties from the 60's. This has links to that book http://www.olymbos.org/publications/  BTW Olimbians do not say they are 'from karpathos' but from olimbos.

Yes, that's the one! We do have the same PDF.

The book I mentioned is exactly the one you talk about. Karpathika "The doric idiom of Karpathos" and was released back in 1896. I can provide you with anything you want from that book.

As for Olympus, the same tale comes from the Cypriots who live in the villages around Olympus in Cyprus. The same goes for Olympus of Bythinia and other places having such a mountain.