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Artificial Island, good or bad?

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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Artificial Island, good or bad?
    Posted: 15-Mar-2007 at 18:55
Due to the overwhelming population and need for more space, some nations are starting (And completed for some nations, like Japan) artificial islands. I was just wondering if it has any negative impact towards the environment, or anything else...?Confused
     
   
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  Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2007 at 10:38
I always thought something like that (unfortunately, quite on a large sacale) would be necessary to solve the Israel-Palestinian conflict: to artificially double the land size, so each can have the equivalent of the whole country
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2007 at 10:46
Well the Dutch are the experts in this.

1/3 of the Netherlands is "won" from the sea.
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 01:37
I don't have any problem with the development of artificial islands, as long as strict prior consideration of the environment is taken. As long as there will be minimal damage done to the biome, then installment should be undertaken. Of course, this will only apply to certain areas. The idea of floating settlements is also one for consideration, kind of like the barges in NY Harbour (for rubbish), but in this case for human inhabitance.  
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2007 at 15:24
Its only really viable on densly populated and/or very firtile land. Netherlands is basicly a river delta, which makes it very fertile, and, like most river deltas around the world, densly populated.

Parts of East England have had a shot at reclaiming coastal marshes and making them into farmland (an area of England that will remind some of the Netherlands), but with low population densities, and a low input low output approach to farming, its not as economicly viable to maintain the coastal defenses, and so there is talk of letting the marshes return as a natural barrier to the sea (storm surges and what not).

Some areas of hte Netherlands are looking in this direction too, and its unlikely that there will be any major land reclaimation in the short term in the Netherlands due to both enviromental concerns, and concerns of sustainablity.
On the other hand the Dutch have perfected a rather ingenious technique of making concrete that floats on water, and are using it to build modern house boats on some waterways.
Maybe this is the future, instead of reclaiming lots of land, just secure bodies of water and manage them (against sudden flooding, pollution, sea storms etc), and build floating cities.


Edited by Cywr - 03-Apr-2007 at 15:26
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2007 at 16:45
The United Arab Emirates have built them and the look like Palm trees. In this case it's growing their economy I believe as it's ment for a tourist atraction. It's miles of beautiful beach, I wouldn't mind visiting it. So it could definitly be very good.
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  Quote Donasin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 17:48
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

The United Arab Emirates have built them and the look like Palm trees. In this case it's growing their economy I believe as it's ment for a tourist atraction. It's miles of beautiful beach, I wouldn't mind visiting it. So it could definitly be very good.


Not only that but the main sectors of islands is supposed to the look like the Earth when viewed from above.

It will be quite a sight when its done.
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  Quote tommo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 05:37
Originally posted by Serge L

I always thought something like that (unfortunately, quite on a large sacale) would be necessary to solve the Israel-Palestinian conflict: to artificially double the land size, so each can have the equivalent of the whole country


The Isreali-Palestinian conflict is so far beyond mere land ownership that it's not funny.
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2007 at 09:38
Originally posted by Cywr

Its only really viable on densly populated and/or very firtile land. Netherlands is basicly a river delta, which makes it very fertile, and, like most river deltas around the world, densly populated.

Parts of East England have had a shot at reclaiming coastal marshes and making them into farmland (an area of England that will remind some of the Netherlands), but with low population densities, and a low input low output approach to farming, its not as economicly viable to maintain the coastal defenses, and so there is talk of letting the marshes return as a natural barrier to the sea (storm surges and what not).

Some areas of hte Netherlands are looking in this direction too, and its unlikely that there will be any major land reclaimation in the short term in the Netherlands due to both enviromental concerns, and concerns of sustainablity.
On the other hand the Dutch have perfected a rather ingenious technique of making concrete that floats on water, and are using it to build modern house boats on some waterways.
Maybe this is the future, instead of reclaiming lots of land, just secure bodies of water and manage them (against sudden flooding, pollution, sea storms etc), and build floating cities.
 
Maybe you mean another region but there is a region called Holland, close to The Wash. Anyhow, when I made a trip to Cambridge ( from Harwich ) it looked just like home for some time. Even a Dutch style windmill was there.


Edited by Sander - 24-Apr-2007 at 10:04
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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2007 at 10:51
floating islands?? can I see a picture?
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2007 at 10:53
I'm pretty sure they are just built up from the sea floor...could be wrong. A floating island would be awesome! I suppose we have pontoons...and houseboats! Smile
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2007 at 11:57
But I'd argue that both the English and Dutch drained marshes are not artificial islands, but drained marshes... and so a different thing alltogether...
 
I'd say that artificial islands are not bad per se, as long as they are built with an eye on nature and environment... I would personally see better perspectives for things like Airports and Windmill parks on such Islands than habitation...
 
On a side note... what would you call artificial? There is a number of inhabited 'natural' islands on the north-coast of the Netherlands and Germany, which, without some pretty artificial coast-protections, would have been washed away ages ago...

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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2007 at 19:37
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

But I'd argue that both the English and Dutch drained marshes are not artificial islands, but drained marshes... and so a different thing alltogether...
 
I'd say that artificial islands are not bad per se, as long as they are built with an eye on nature and environment... I would personally see better perspectives for things like Airports and Windmill parks on such Islands than habitation...
 
On a side note... what would you call artificial? There is a number of inhabited 'natural' islands on the north-coast of the Netherlands and Germany, which, without some pretty artificial coast-protections, would have been washed away ages ago...

Dutch Province Flevoland is a true artificial island for example . In fact,  on sites it  boasts to be the largest in the world.  In other areas people make an artificial island for an airport or something. Here a whole province with cities is made. Thumbs%20Up
 
 
Flevoland pronunciation (helpinfo) is a province of the Netherlands. Located in the centre of the country, at the location of the former Zuiderzee, the province was established on January 1, 1986; the twelfth province of the country, with Lelystad as its capital. The province has approximately 370,000 inhabitants (2005) and consists of 6 municipalities.
 
After a flood in 1916, it was decided that the Zuiderzee, an inland sea within the Netherlands, would be enclosed and reclaimed: the Zuiderzee Works started. In 1932, the Afsluitdijk was completed, which closed off the sea completely. The Zuiderzee was subsequently called IJsselmeer (lake at the end of the river IJssel).
 
...
 
The Flevolands, Zuiderzee Works
 
Eastern Flevoland (Oostelijk Flevoland or Oost-Flevoland) and Southern Flevoland (Zuidelijk Flevoland or Zuid-Flevoland), unlike the Noordoostpolder, have peripheral lakes between them and the mainland: the Veluwemeer and Gooimeer respectively, making them the world's largest artificial island.
 
....
 
 
 


Edited by Sander - 24-Apr-2007 at 20:06
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 04:21

As the Afsluitdijk was already in place when Flevoland was created, (and the Flevodijk as well) Flevoland is a drained lake rather than an artificial island. The ground was not raised up, the area was dammed and the water was pumped out. When you put caisson walls in the sea and pump it empty (as they do for water-archaeology) you get a hole in the water, not an island. Same for Flevoland.

Same for the other dried-out land in Holland: Beemster, Schermer etc, all were lakes or swamps.
 
You could perhaps consider IJburg as an artificial island. That was raised up out of the water. But that is just a suburb...


Edited by Aelfgifu - 25-Apr-2007 at 04:21

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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 21:38
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

As the Afsluitdijk was already in place when Flevoland was created, (and the Flevodijk as well) Flevoland is a drained lake rather than an artificial island. The ground was not raised up, the area was dammed and the water was pumped out. When you put caisson walls in the sea and pump it empty (as they do for water-archaeology) you get a hole in the water, not an island. Same for Flevoland.

Same for the other dried-out land in Holland: Beemster, Schermer etc, all were lakes or swamps.
 
You could perhaps consider IJburg as an artificial island. That was raised up out of the water. But that is just a suburb...
Hi Aelfgifu,  it seems  you have rather personal ideas on : what an artificial island is, - what aint, and moreover, wich method" should be used  to fit the definition of artificial islands.
 
Firstly , I agree that in many cases Dutch land reclamation (polders ) did not leed to islands but Flevopolder is diffrent. Beemster polder etc became fully integrated in the surounding land mass, unlike Flevopolder.
 
Secondly , Lake Ijsselmeer is an artificial lake . It used to be a large salt water innersea ( Zuiderzee ) that was artificially turned into a lake. In this artificial lake  a large landmass , was created artificially. This landmass is surrounded on all sites by the water in wich it was created , meaning it became an artificial island.
 
Now, Flevopolder might not be filled up untill it became higher than sealevel ( not needed ofcourse, the dams, that form the outer parts of the island, are high enough ) but..... where is the definition that artifical islands have to be filled up ? This seems to be a personal opinion because the standard definitions of artifical islands, dont have this restriction. ( If there is a widely accepted definition that does give that idea, please provide the sources )
 
The more standard and accepted definition of an artifical island is :  man made (is)land created in waterfilled area and still surrounded on all sides by the water. Wether the island is formed by damming or by other means does not change this definition.
 
I dont use wiki in historic debates but for a simple definition, it might be helpfull :
 
An artificial island is an island that has been man-made, rather than formed by natural means. It is usually constructed on an existing reef or may be an expansion of a small natural islet. Traditional artificial islands are created by land reclamation. Some recent developments have been made more in the manner of oil platforms, but whether these structures should be considered islands is not universally agreed upon. A less distinctive type of artificial island is formed by the incidental isolation of an existing piece of mainland by canal construction.
 
Despite a popular image of modernity, artificial islands actually have a long history in many parts of the world, dating back to the crannogs of prehistoric Scotland and Ireland, the ceremonial centers of Nan Madol in Micronesia and the still extant floating islands of Lake Titicaca. The city of Tenochtitlan, the Aztec predecessor of Mexico City that was home to 250,000 people when the Spaniards arrived, stood on a small natural island in Lake Texcoco that was surrounded by countless artificial chinamitl islands.
 
Many artificial islands have been built in urban harbors to provide either a site deliberately isolated from the city or just spare real estate otherwise unobtainable in a crowded metropolis. An example of the first case is Dejima (or Deshima), built in the bay of Nagasaki in Japan's Edo period as a contained center for European merchants....
 
 
[The long list of (all kinds) of artificial islands here includes : ]
 ..
Netherlands
Flevopolder
IJburg
Neeltje-Jans
 ..
 

regards


Edited by Sander - 25-Apr-2007 at 22:05
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  Quote tommo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 22:54
I always figured we were talking about VLFS, of which Japan is currently leading the world, especially in oil-related storage.

I think they're a good idea but, as always, it depends upon the local environmental conditions. You can't build them on important reefs, you can't build them in stormy sea conditions, you can't build them where the cost outweighs the benefit. Don't underestimate how painful it is to design anything for oceanfaring voyages, let alone a semi-permament position not anchored to anything substantial in calm waters. Breakwaters can only go so far.
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2007 at 08:16

Well, according to this Wiki site, the only islands in the IJsselmeer are De Kreupel, Schokland and Urk, which, of course, have not been islands for quite some time. Lesson number one, never rely on wiki.

 
 
The Flevopolder is not an island by my defenition because the whole of it is about 5 meters below sea level, and by my defenition, islands are above sea-level. I am not too concerned what the official stance is on that point.

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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2007 at 12:39
 
The Flevopolder is not an island by my defenition because the whole of it is about 5 meters below sea level, and by my defenition, islands are above sea-level. I am not too concerned what the official stance is on that point.
Yep. that are rather own definitions  and not the more standard ones. 
 
As mentioned, artifical islands dont  have to be above sealevel or be filled up. ( neither does  artifical  'land ' has  to be above sealevel )
 
Artificial islands is a generic name for many types . As long as the man-made island is surrounded by water, its an artfical  island by standard definition.
 
In right corner : Flevo (with city Almere on it ).    
 .


Edited by Sander - 02-May-2007 at 15:10
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2007 at 04:06
Yep. that are rather own definitions  and not the more standard ones.
I never denied that. Of course they are my own defenitions. Hence the used term MY. Generally means personal.
 
What is wrong with personal defenitions? The world is based on them you know. Official defenitions are nothing more than someone elses defenition forced upon us. I am quite able to decide for myself what I define.


Edited by Aelfgifu - 03-May-2007 at 04:10

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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2007 at 23:11

What harm man made islands can do the environment depends upon how many islands are built. The word manmade no longer tells that having artificial things is good, healthy or desirable. The wiser of us must realize we should pay more attention to the natural state rather than continue messing around with only partially understood world forces that shape this planet.

 

But putting all wisdom aside, lets press on and build our islands. What for? Being man made means man owned the original builders become filthy rich for long have they lain awake at night dreaming of how to gouge more out of their fellow man. (Sorry about that outburst, my uncouth ignorance of these matters arises.) No! These islands are for the good of man no matter how much they cost in gas, electricity and all those healthy carbon causing things. (Even if they didnt have harmful emissions they proposed islands still would be a giant heat sink that adds more to global warming.)

 

Of course we could internationally agree at stopping at a certain number of islands being built. (Ha, ha, ha!)  And the UN would be effective in making sure such a thing would never happen. (Is this really a serious discussion of reality?) There would be no need to fret about any long term changes in weather patterns for those sort of things take care of themselves, dont they?

 

One may have heard of Atlantis. (Who in this universe hasnt?)  A whopping great island that sat in the middle of Atlantic Ocean and look at the advances they made. (Didnt they destroy themselves in the end?) Now the existence of Atlantis is going too far for either side of my split personality for it would sit right on top of the Atlantic trench, the major underwater artery of global weather conditions since time began. Any major blockage to this trench would cause this planet to cook for the unimpeded flow of cold water between the polar icecaps is essential for keeping world temperatures in balance. 

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