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pekau
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Topic: Westernization of Iranian clothing... Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 19:23 |
Some call it civil disobedience, some call it freedom and rights of women. What do you think? Is Middle East changing too fast, or...?
Women with traditional clothing...
Women with westernized clothing...
Notice the last picture, two women are shocked at the woman with westernized clothing...
Edited by pekau - 14-Mar-2007 at 19:26
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Zagros
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Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 19:34 |
huh? "western" clothing has been worn in urban settings for at least a century and a half.
This is a picture of my gran, two uncles and aunt from the early 60s, they were poor then and from a peripheral city (Kermanshah), so it's not like they were westernised socialites.
I think many people need to drop the image of Iranians the media has imprinted on their minds over the last 27 years.
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Zagros
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Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 19:36 |
That is not traditional clothing, that is from a fashion show two years ago with "new" Islamic designs sponsored by the government which no one took up.
That is traditional clothing of Kurds to which other Iranian traditional clothing styles are quite similar.
Edited by Zagros - 14-Mar-2007 at 19:37
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Mughal e Azam
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Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 15:31 |
I think Arabs and Persians dont have such a close connection with their native culture like us South Asians who still, after living under British rule for 150 years, wear shalwar qameez and saris and sherwanis during every day and events.
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Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 22:02 |
Those Iranian women in the 'western' clothing are quite attractive.
Someone had to say it.
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Afghanan
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Posted: 22-Nov-2007 at 06:42 |
I dont think I've ever met an Iranian woman outside Iran wear traditional clothing, not even for festive events like Nou Rooz or Weddings.
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Posted: 22-Nov-2007 at 10:31 |
Pekau, in the last picture the women are not even looking at her.
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Zagros
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Posted: 23-Nov-2007 at 12:32 |
Originally posted by Afghanan
I dont think I've ever met an Iranian woman outside Iran wear traditional clothing, not even for festive events like Nou Rooz or Weddings. |
That's because city people do not have traditional clothing and country people have not left the country and if they have, they've gone to the city and become urbanised first. It's like wondering why people from any developed urban centre don't wear traditional country clothing at weddings etc.
The only notable difference in urban clothing with western clothing that I have seen in paintings and such from the last 200 years has been in headwear.
Even looking at centuries old art, the clothing does not look all that different from contemporary western garb.
This is a Safavi soldier from the 1600s, drawn by a French artist, and he is wearing what appears to be a shirt (not with collars), similar to what was worn in europe at the time, also his face is shaved.
Sattar Khan, leader of the 1900s constitutional revolution in favour of the parliament against the anglo-russian backed puppet monarch.
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Crystall
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Posted: 26-Nov-2007 at 04:18 |
It might be more modernization, not simply westernization.
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ok ge
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Posted: 26-Nov-2007 at 13:34 |
Originally posted by pekau
Notice the last picture, two women are shocked at the woman with westernized clothing... |
if they are shocked by the passing lady, then they would not be looking to one direction that is behind her.
I am assuming a car accident happened because of the passing lady. That is what they are looking at
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Afghanan
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 17:57 |
Originally posted by Zagros
Originally posted by Afghanan
I dont think I've ever met an Iranian woman outside Iran wear traditional clothing, not even for festive events like Nou Rooz or Weddings. |
That's because city people do not have traditional clothing and country people have not left the country and if they have, they've gone to the city and become urbanised first. It's like wondering why people from any developed urban centre don't wear traditional country clothing at weddings etc.
The only notable difference in urban clothing with western clothing that I have seen in paintings and such from the last 200 years has been in headwear.
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I've met Kurdish people from Iraq and Turkey (professional ex-pats) who wear traditional clothes at weddings and Nou Rooz, I have yet to see an Iranian do the same. Afghans as well, whether from the cities or other, don't have a problem wearing traditional clothing for religious/cultural events. There was once an Iranian girl doing a belly dance at a wedding, but I don't know if that was traditional dress or just something for show. I'm kind of leaning towards the idea that Iranians generally abhor the rural class and don't want to be associated with them and would rather be associated with Western societies in general, similar to the Turks.
Afghanistan went through this modernization TOO fast and it lead to the usurping of the King by the rural class.
Edited by Afghanan - 05-Dec-2007 at 18:01
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Zagros
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 18:48 |
Well I already explained it for you. It is not an ethnic thing, but an
urban vs country thing. The Kurds you mentioned seek to differentiate
themselves much more so than Iranian ones. In my town the only people
wearing 'traditional Kurdish clothing' were the shepherds coming to the
markets and visitors from the countryside around. Paveh is the only
town/city I have been to in Iran in which people walk around in their
old traditional clothing, it is an isolated mountain town.
If you go to Afghanistan, Kurdistan (Iraq and Turkey's), Pakistan you
will see many people walking around int eh cities in what you call
traditional clothing going about their everyday business. I think because most of them are newly urbanised and would view a change as Westernisation and thus haram.
I don't know what point it is you're trying to make. That Iranians
reject their traditions? Because that is complete nonsense since even
the devout Muslims don't walk around in cloth or any other impractical
clothing. This alleged modernisation link to clothing thing as well,
if it happened it was hundreds of years ago.
I have articles of Bakhtiari and Kurdish clothing which were given to
me as gifts and they feel very strange and impractical compared to a pair of
modern combats or jeans. Things can easily fall out of the pockets the
cloth can easily snag etc. I can see its merits in the mountains but
not going about my every day business. This is probably why they have
been dropped.
Also not to forget that at the time they were replaced in urban centres
there was no perception of them as being western and haram, so they
became normal without hassle.
Edited by Zagros - 05-Dec-2007 at 18:49
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 19:11 |
Pakistan? I wish that was the case, I am sick of wearing suits.
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Zagros
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 19:27 |
I have never been, but I base my statement on seeing TV and second generation Pakistanis here. Plus I said many people, not all ;) and of those many I said that most were probably recent migrants from the countryside.
Edited by Zagros - 05-Dec-2007 at 19:27
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drgonzaga
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 19:43 |
OK folks let's not get hung up on modern aberrations as if the Quran serves as a fashion magazine. Here are illustrations on Muslim dress in the Al-Andalus of the 13th century:
How about what the peripatetic Ibn Battuta had to say about Turkish women--
"A remarkable thing I saw in this country was the respect shown to women by the Turks for they hold a more dignified position than the men...I saw also the wives of merchants and in general most men. Their faces are displayed for the Turkish women do not veil themselves and sometimes a woman will be accompanied by her husband so anyone seeing him would take him as one of her servants..."
Here is the context of the Muslim woman above playing chess with a Christian counterpart:
Edited by drgonzaga - 06-Dec-2007 at 03:01
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Spartakus
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 09:14 |
Well, beautiful women need clothes showing their beauty. Why Iranian women be any different?
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Menumorut
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 10:07 |
Well, beautiful women need clothes showing their beauty. Why Iranian women be any different? |
I think feminization is a lose of humanization.
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Spartakus
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 21:49 |
Why????
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Lmprs
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 21:56 |
"A remarkable thing I saw in this country was the respect shown to women by the Turks for they hold a more dignified position than the men..." |
I guess these people were still semi-nomadic?
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Styrbiorn
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 22:17 |
Originally posted by Menumorut
I think feminization is a lose of humanization. |
Huh? Which one of the following are you referring to?
Feminization can refer to:
Feminization (biology) - The hormonally induced development of female sexual characteristics
Feminization (activity) - Alternative sexual or lifestyle practices involving a man assuming a female role
Feminization (sociology) - A perceived shift of gender roles in a society toward the characteristically "female".
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