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sauds destroying Makkah and Medina
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Ahmed The Fighter View Drop Down
Chieftain
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Lion of Babylon

Joined: 17-Apr-2005
Location: Iraq
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Posts: 1106 		  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: sauds destroying Makkah and Medina
    Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 13:36
Xshayathiya  don't make a generalization, you quoted from Mu'awiyah who actually a racist person and we all know the Umayyads they were cruel against non-Arab  but they were more cruel against the houshold of the Prophet(PBUH),bani hashim their cousins so you can't take him as reliable person cause he doesn't represent the real Islam.
Imam Ali (PBUH) treated all people equally with no diffirences and your quote doesnot make sense,the Imam was the caliph and had all the power in his state no need to go to the Arab and ask them,if he saw somthing wrong he would fix it.
"Be not in face of them a voracious animal, counting them as easy prey, for they are of two kinds: either they are brothers in religion or your equals in creation"
 from Imam Ali's letter to tje governer of Egypt Malik bin Al-Ashtar.
and I can't see anythingin your second quote except anti0arab propaganda.
"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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malizai_ View Drop Down
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 15:33
Originally posted by Xshayathiya

There's a lot of talk of equality, yet in the beginning of Islam we see quotes like

"Be watchful of Iranian Muslims and never treat them as equals of Arabs. Arabs have a right to take in marriage their women, but they have no right to marry Arab women. Arabs are entitled to inherit their legacy, but they cannot inherit from an Arab. As far as possible they are to be given lesser pensions and lowly jobs. In the presence of an Arab a non-Arab shall not lead the congregation prayer, nor they are to be allowed to stand in the first row of prayer, nor to be entrusted with the job of guarding the frontiers or the post of a qadi. " - Mu'awiyah
 
"One day a group of the Mawali (Iranian clients of Arab tribes) came to Amir al-Mu'minin 'Ali and complained about the conduct of the Arabs. They said to him that the Messenger of God did not make any distinction between Arabs and non-Arabs in the disbursement of public funds (bayt ul-mal) or in the matter of marriage. They added that the Prophet distributed public funds equally among Muslims and let Salman, Bilal and Suhayb marry Arab women, but today Arabs discriminated between themselves and us. 'Ali went to the Arabs and discussed the matter with them, but it was to no avail. The Arabs shouted, "It is quite impossible! Impossible! "'All, annoyed and angered by this turn of affairs, returned to the Mawali and told them with utmost regret, "They are not prepared to treat you equally and as Muslims enjoying equal rights. I advise you to go into trade and God will make you prosper." - Usul Al-Kafi
 

Also, in response to the earlier point about celebrating Norouz, Zoroastrians are (usually) considered people of the book, therefore their traditions are not anti-islamic. Furthermore, as many other people mentioned Norouz is a cultural holiday, there is no religious significance to it (no prayer or worship involved). It also seems hypocritic to call Norouz anti-islamic when most people have a Quran on their Haft-Sin.
 
U quote Muawiya's personal opinion of the Iranians, which has as much relevance as G. Bush's view of  Iranians! The party of Muawiya was opportunist in that it wanted to consolidate the power within the tribe of Banu Ummayah, it dealt more harshly with fellow Arabs than Iranians. It did away with the meritocratic system for a hereditary system. I even hinted toward this non-Arab intolerance as an ummayad conspiracy in the previous post. To be honest i don't think it was outright racism, rather political use of race, by which the Ummayads would with one stroke deny a huge population from contending the seat of power. If anything the Ummayad were the first to renege on the fundamental Islamic principle of meritocratic leadership by creating authoritarian rule. None other than the grandsons of Mohamed were involved in leading the fight against their corruption.
 
The beginning was not of Islam, but of Ummayad rule, who foresake an Islamic principle and make a lot of people unhappy to put it mildly.
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ok ge View Drop Down
Arch Duke
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Posts: 1775 		  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 23:31
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

Hello Cok nice to see you, are you busy in your moderatng job?
Actually Ibn Munqidh is partialy right all the Sunnies Islamic sholars siad that except Abu Hanifa who said anyone have the right to be a caliph if he has the condition.
that is the only reason that made the Turks(Ottoman) adopted Hanafi sec.
 
Hi Ahmed, good to hear from you. Sorry it has been extremely busy these few months.
As you know that most Saudis are Hanbalis and yet, this hadith is not circulated and I never heard of it. That is why I asked the source.
D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
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