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Kashmiri
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Topic: sauds destroying Makkah and Medina Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 11:42 |
This is something that is talked little of, but the Saudi government has destroyed almost all the historical sites in the two cities just to make more money by building luxury 5 star hotels and malls inplace of them. To to tell you the truth i wish ottamans were still in control of these holy places atleast they had respect for them It seems these saudis just want to make money of everything, they have no respect for anything, they have the beduin mentallaty no matter how rich they get.
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 12:28 |
Originally posted by Kashmiri
This is something that is talked little of, but the Saudi government has destroyed almost all the historical sites in the two cities just to make more money by building luxury 5 star hotels and malls inplace of them. To to tell you the truth i wish ottamans were still in control of these holy places atleast they had respect for them It seems these saudis just want to make money of everything, they have no respect for anything, they have the beduin mentallaty no matter how rich they get. |
e I have heard of this there not destroying" holy places but tearring down old Ottoman buildings like castles & other
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pekau
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Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 14:28 |
Why would they do that? These ancient sites could be useful for the tourist attraction... not to mention the religious significance.
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Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 17:01 |
Kashmiri,
I see from your posts, is that you hold alot of grudge against the Al-Sauds. Im not a fan of them as well, but, what are your sources for this info?
Besides, Mecca and Medina, are constantly shifting their city plans, and buildings are continuously being razed to the ground, to allow for the haram's expansion, which the Saudi government has been commited to since it bore the responsibilty of keeping the two holy mosques. Not to make money, but to cope with the millions of annual pilgrims to those places. Do not worry, the two holy mosques will not slip out of arab control again. They are in respectful hands.
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 17:30 |
Originally posted by Ibn Munqidh
Kashmiri,
I see from your posts, is that you hold alot of grudge against the Al-Sauds. Im not a fan of them as well, but, what are your sources for this info?
Besides, Mecca and Medina, are constantly shifting their city plans, and buildings are continuously being razed to the ground, to allow for the haram's expansion, which the Saudi government has been commited to since it bore the responsibilty of keeping the two holy mosques. Not to make money, but to cope with the millions of annual pilgrims to those places. Do not worry, the two holy mosques will not slip out of arab control again. They are in respectful hands. |
hese worried that they're in Arab hands and your saying don't worry there in Arab hands I think 2 that hes exagerating a bit
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Bulldog
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Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 19:04 |
Ibn_Munqidh
Do not worry, the two holy mosques will not slip out of arab control again. They are in respectful hands.
Arab control? Sorry but maybe I'm missing the point, arn't the Holy Muslim lands respected by all muslims? so why is it solely a priority of Arabs? all Arabs are not muslim so its an ironic comment.
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Zagros
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Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 20:43 |
The Sauds are as representative of Arabs as Pat Robertson is of Americans - I don't think the question is of whether Arabs or Turks would control it better, the point is that anyone could do a better job than the Sauds.
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Kashmiri
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Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 21:39 |
The Sauds actually dont even belong to the hejaz region, they captured they region from hashmites and most of them were killed or forced to leave. The sauds are najadi from eastern saudi arabia. The point of this thread is that i dont know why most muslims stay quiet on such issues, the saudi government doesn't even ask the muslims before destroying these places. There should be a way where all most muslims atleast all muslim governments have a say in this matter.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 05:14 |
The Sauds actually dont even belong to the hejaz region, they captured
they region from hashmites and most of them were killed or forced to
leave |
Yep. And its still happening today. The Saudi think that when someone finally gives them the death blow it'll be a Hashmi. I think this may be why my family left.
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Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 08:53 |
Originally posted by Bulldog
Ibn_Munqidh
Do not worry, the two holy mosques will not slip out of arab control again. They are in respectful hands.
Arab control? Sorry but maybe I'm missing the point, arn't the Holy Muslim lands respected by all muslims? so why is it solely a priority of Arabs? all Arabs are not muslim so its an ironic comment. |
Yes they do belong to all the muslims, but where do they lie? In arabia, so they are the responsibilty of the arabs. Do not forget that the prophet was an arab, and the caliphs were.
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Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 08:56 |
Originally posted by Zagros
the point is that anyone could do a better job than the Sauds. |
What better job? What is missing from mecca, what negatives do you see? I think the Sauds are doing a wonderful job in mecca, with annual expansions and facilities being built for the pilgrims. I doubt if any other regime would be as interested in the two holy mosques.
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Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 08:58 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
The Sauds actually dont even belong to the hejaz region, they captured they region from hashmites and most of them were killed or forced to leave |
Yep. And its still happening today. The Saudi think that when someone finally gives them the death blow it'll be a Hashmi. I think this may be why my family left.
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Hashimi as an arab, a descendant of the prophet? Or an Indian or Persian with a black turban?
Edited by Ibn Munqidh - 14-Mar-2007 at 13:44
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Kashmiri
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Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 12:07 |
bro are u saudi? i still dont understand how can you defend that government which is so hypocrytcle, which steals the oil money to benifit the royal family. i have nothing against the saudi people as i have lived in Riyadh for 16 years but the government is a whole different story. you know in riyad there are tens of thousands of saudi nationals who are still homeless and live in mud brick houses, if the government was fair would you think this would happen in this oil rich country? saudi arabia has the potential to be the richest country in the world yet most of the money is still in the hands of royal family and all the control is still in their hands.
Edited by Kashmiri - 14-Mar-2007 at 12:08
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Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 13:46 |
Originally posted by Kashmiri
bro are u saudi? i still dont understand how can you defend that government which is so hypocrytcle, which steals the oil money to benifit the royal family. i have nothing against the saudi people as i have lived in Riyadh for 16 years but the government is a whole different story. you know in riyad there are tens of thousands of saudi nationals who are still homeless and live in mud brick houses, if the government was fair would you think this would happen in this oil rich country? saudi arabia has the potential to be the richest country in the world yet most of the money is still in the hands of royal family and all the control is still in their hands. |
Im no Saudi, I also do not defend that government. I do believe that they are despots, theives and tyrants, whom enslave their people. What Im talking about here isnt politics, its the islamic heritage and history. About Mecca and Medina, and that the Saudi regime is all but not taking care of those sites.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 15-Mar-2007 at 02:46 |
Originally posted by Ibn Munqidh
Hashimi as an arab, a descendant of the prophet? Or an Indian or Persian with a black turban?
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I never did understand the black turban thing...
A Hijazi al-Hashim al-Quraesh is what I meant. But it really doesn't
matter about the race of the rulers so long as they do it competantly.
In fact muslims should be race blind.
Originally posted by Kashmiri
who are still homeless and live in mud brick houses |
Both eh?
Edited by Omar al Hashim - 15-Mar-2007 at 02:48
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Posted: 15-Mar-2007 at 04:29 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
But it really doesn't matter about the race of the rulers so long as they do it competantly. In fact muslims should be race blind.
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Actually, it does matter. According to the Sunnah, and the four principles of the Islamic schools of jurisdiction, Imams Hanafi, Shafi'i, Hanbali, and Maliki, the succesor of the prophet must be a Qurashi, not only an arab, but a Qurashi. Why do think then, when Ibn Saud kicked Sharif Husain out of the Hejaz, he did not assume that title? When he had the power, influence, and charisma over the entire arab nation at the time. He did not fullfil the Qurashi term. Thus he was not fit for such a position.
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ok ge
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Posted: 15-Mar-2007 at 14:20 |
Originally posted by Ibn Munqidh
According to the Sunnah, and the four principles of the Islamic schools of jurisdiction, Imams Hanafi, Shafi'i, Hanbali, and Maliki, the succesor of the prophet must be a Qurashi, not only an arab, but a Qurashi. |
I'm extremely interested to know from where did you obtain the above condition?
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 15-Mar-2007 at 15:22 |
Originally posted by ok ge
Originally posted by Ibn Munqidh
According to the Sunnah, and the four principles of the Islamic schools of jurisdiction, Imams Hanafi, Shafi'i, Hanbali, and Maliki, the succesor of the prophet must be a Qurashi, not only an arab, but a Qurashi. |
I'm extremely interested to know from where did you obtain the above condition? |
those are all of the Sunni branch And they think the succesor shouldn't have to be of the Prophets line. I thought only the Shia's wanted that.
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Mortazaa
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Posted: 15-Mar-2007 at 16:09 |
I am a follower of hanafi and I never heard such nonsense.
why is becoming a Qurashi such important?
But it really doesn't matter about the race of the rulers so long as they do it competantly. In fact muslims should be race blind.
well said.
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Posted: 15-Mar-2007 at 17:22 |
Im 100% sure of this fact, and yes, this applies to the sunni branch of islam. Why is it then, when Abdulrahman Ibn Muhamad ibn Abi Amir (Almanzor of andalucia) take the title of caliph from Hisham II (an Ummayad) rebellion broke out and tore Muslim Spain apart? What do you think of Ibn Saud's example? On Saturday, I will be asking my professor in Islamic History and civilisation about this, and I will get back to you guys, as it was him who first mentioned this fact to me.
The Shia, on the other hand, prefer the title of Imam, and that this person must be of the prophet's household, let alone a Qurashi.
When you come to the Ottomans, they became legitimate caliphs at sword's edge.
Edited by Ibn Munqidh - 16-Mar-2007 at 04:06
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