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Islam and alcohol
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Samurai
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Posts: 131 		  Quote chimera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Islam and alcohol
    Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 05:44
"In the Qur'an the prescribed penalty for adultery is one hundred lashes and a year in exile - sura 24:1. However, Mohammed did condemn people to be stoned to death, in one case the rabbis brought a man and a woman accused of adultery, Mohammed ordered the pair to be stoned to death.
Comparative Index to Islam : VERSE
Muslim jurists are unanimous about the penalty for adultery: ... The non-virgin, one hundred strokes and death by stoning, the virgin, one hundred strokes ...
www.answering-islam.de/Main/Index/V/verse.html - 37k -
So heaven is where crime is the reward - promiscuous sex and alcohol. Islam is a source of criminal motivation.
chimera
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 06:38
LOL
Your joking right.
 
answering-islam, a source? you must be joking LOL
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 06:45
99% of Turkish people don't even know what "Kimiz" is.
 
Oh and you've asked 99% of the population of Turkey Confused
 
And the Khirghiz farmstead in Izmir, which belongs to a Khirghiz family, is the only place to drink "Kimiz" in Turkey. And only psycho Pan-Turkists go there. But even they don't claim such a ridiculous thing.
 
You better tell them to take it off the tourist map then, it's become a hit tourist cultural attraction Smile
 
 


Edited by Bulldog - 01-Mar-2007 at 06:47
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Posts: 1379 		  Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 07:24
No, Bulldog. It's because It's a central asian drink which is completely alien to the Turkish people. That khirghiz farmstead is also a wonderful proof of my statement.
 
Okay?
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 10:18
If it's alien why is it sold in Turkey LOL
 
Arn't the people of that farm Turkish citizens? so what's your problem.
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Posts: 3387 		  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 10:21
Guys. Is that stuff good enough to fight over? It better be... Wink

Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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Posts: 1379 		  Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 10:50

I have no problem as long as you don't claim that "Kimiz" would be a traditional drink of the people of Turkey.

And that kimiz was a gift from our Kirghiz farmers to our brainless Pan Turkists. That farm is NOT a "Kimiz shop".
 
Find any place where Kimiz is sold in Turkey and I'll accept that Kimiz is the national drink of Turks.
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 11:18
Originally posted by Brian J Checco

Great post, Malizai! That's the kind of thing that I was looking for. Very explicit evidence for the case.

I encourage more of the same, and I'd also like to ask any of you who are Muslim (if you care to answer, one way or the other) if you yourselves drink? I wonder what the answers will be.

 
I didn't drink when i didn't care for religion and i never have. But if i did i would have stopped. It may be useful information to know that in the early period of Islam there wasn't a prohibition on drink. When the revelation regarding the prohibition was revealed it clearly identified two behavioral categories of Muslims, like there always will be. Incidentally there were some that were drinking when the prohibition was revealed. Upon hearing the prohibition there were some who literally spat out what they held in their mouths, whereas others swallowed one last time. I guess i would have spat out.LOL
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 11:48
Hidden_Face
And that kimiz was a gift from our Kirghiz farmers to our brainless Pan Turkists.
 
Really? so why is it on the tourist map, tours that visit the Izmir area tend to go there quite alot.
 
Hidden_Face
Find any place where Kimiz is sold in Turkey
 
When I was in Istanbul I saw it being sold, I guess you'll find it in Ulupamir Van aswell Tongue
 
Aelgifu
Guys. Is that stuff good enough to fight over? It better be... Wink
 
 
Big%20smile 
 
We'll have to find you some.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

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Ustad-i Azam

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Posts: 1379 		  Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 12:18
Originally posted by Bulldog

 
Really? so why is it on the tourist map, tours that visit the Izmir area tend to go there quite alot.
 
 
 
Which map? Which tour? What are you talking about Bulldog?
 
  
Originally posted by Bulldog

When I was in Istanbul I saw it being sold, I guess you'll find it in Ulupamir Van aswell Tongue
  
 
I was born and raise in Istanbul. Is it awfully hard to say just a place where it is sold! 
 
Goodnight, Bulldog. Nice discussion indeed.
 


Edited by The Hidden Face - 01-Mar-2007 at 12:21
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Posts: 405 		  Quote Batu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 20:14
Kimiz is not the national drink of Turkey.but its the national drink of Turks.it was invented by Turks,it was drunk by Turks.it is still drunk in CA.all Turkish dont live in Turkey!
A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 15:19
Originally posted by Brian J Checco

Alcohol is the central substance in the Christian mysteries (along side with the wafers; you know, the Transubstantiation), and us such, there is not much justification for the demonization of the recreational use of alcohol in the west. Can you imagine the argument?
 
This point regarding the necessitty of wine is for the Eucahrist is for Catholic and Orthodox traditions.   Evangelical traditions reagrding alcohol are far different.
 
As for as imgaining the argument, I have lived it in many places in the American South.  Many counties still have  "Blue Laws" that regulate the sale of alcohol.  These laws can make purchasing of alcohol merely incovenient to almost impossible depnding on the regulations.
 
Some variants that I have seen include forbidding bars outright, requiring that restaraunts that serve alcohol incorperate as "private clubs" and  limitations or even banning alcohol vendors.
 
When I was in college, I knew "Bootleggers" who would stocka  car  trunk full of alcohol in one county, drive about 60 miles to a "dry area"  and then resell it for good profit as the thirsty locals did not want to drive 100 mile roundtrip for beer.  (most of the customers were fishing on rural lakes).    
 
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Eli Manning

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Posts: 925 		  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 18:33
I used to live in New Orleans. Not all the South is neo-prohibitionist Wink
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Posts: 1230 		  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 02:53
Oh God! The South is one of the most hard drinking parts of the country! There are many Christians down there who do not agree with it, but many more who love their alchohol! 
Concrete is heavy; iron is hard--but the grass will prevail.
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Posts: 1988 		  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 11:28
Originally posted by Constantine XI

Originally posted by Sparten

So dose Pakistan
 
 




To answer the post, it does appear logical that banning alcohol was another measure Mohammad implemented to prevent the incessant infighting which broke out between the Arab tribes. This was a necessary step to take before he could begin his military campaigns to expand outside Arabia.
 
Buddy, here you downplayed Muhammed's permament influence on Muslims. Muhammed's main role was not waging military campaigns,but enlighting genetarions then and now. It is also worth noting down the fact that  Islamic rules are the will of the Allmighty, Muhammed is the messanger.
 
I am glad alchol is forbidden in Islam. I do not drink and will never drink. I have witnessed how bad things people could do when they are drunk, or under the influence of alchol. I have witnessed how people could degrade themselves.Confused
 
Buddy, GDP per capita is higher in Latvia and Russia than Turkey. But Just let me remind you the fact that average Turkish man live 6 years higher than avarage Latvian or Russian manWink Now you may count reasons like climate, murder rate and so on..But I tell you what! in 2005 just 30.000 Russians died of fake vodka. Not to mention who died because of real alchol.. But alchol reallly kills people and made them kill others also unfortunately.
ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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Posts: 2408 		  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2007 at 15:27
Originally posted by The Hidden Face

 
 
Bulldog, please, stop this misinformation.
 
99% of Turkish people don't even know what "Kimiz" is. It's a traditional drink of central asian Turkic peoples, who are utterly different from the people of Turkey, especially culturally.

 
 
Would you please stop with such stupid generalizations? 99%....

It's not like you've never heard of it that 99% of the population didnt heard of it Dead




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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2007 at 15:31
Most People know what is kımız(It is horse milk) but It is true people did not tasted it.
 
I dont know any place who sold Kımız at istanbul too.(Of course, I should add I am not a drinker too.)
 
 
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Posts: 1379 		  Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2007 at 15:51
Regarding the Kimiz issue; 
 
The rate would most probably be the same as what would be in Belgium. It's simply imposible that most of the Turkish people know what even Kimiz is.
 
I consider myself quite authorized to make generalizations on my own people. It's about my family, my friends, my schools, my town and city, which are quite good samples. Especially if you were born and raised in Istanbul.
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2007 at 15:54
Hidden, I live in istanbul too(And I have family, friend ext.). I think I can make some generalization too.
 
Kımız is known by Turks but People dont drink it. It is not a Turkish drinking, but a known drinking.
 
Cogu kişi diğer ikilerden iyi biliyor. En azından geyik iin kullanılıyor. Ka kişi sarabın biranin veya rakının iinde ne oldugunu biliyorki? Kımızın at sutunden yapıldıgını bilen pek cok kişi var.
 
 
  A lot of people know it better than others drinking. At least, for making fun. How many people know what bira, rakı consist.  A lot people know Kımız is done by horse milk.


Edited by Mortaza - 20-Apr-2007 at 16:25
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Posts: 1379 		  Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2007 at 16:28
C'mon Mortaza. Kimiz is only known by some Pan Turkists. That's all. I said %99. But even %1, which means 700,000 of Turkish people, is very high number, if you ask me. The reason is that Kimiz is not a part of Anatolian Turkish culture.
 


Edited by The Hidden Face - 20-Apr-2007 at 17:16
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