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    Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 15:23
Why was Germany not responsible for WWI. I am writing a argumentative paper supporting Joachim Remak theme in "the Outbreak of World War I." For my conclusion I need some help arguing that all of Europe was guilty not just Germany what should I say?

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 16:50
The more I read about WWI the more i become convinced Britain was responcible for WWI. Britain's desire to keep hold of the world's oil supply and freeze Germany out. Germany was the only country in the world capable of beating Britain in oil production in free competition. So WWI was simply Britain making sure the was no free trade in the middle east.
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  Quote Top Gun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 17:09
Originally posted by Paul

The more I read about WWI the more i become convinced Britain was responcible for WWI. Britain's desire to keep hold of the world's oil supply and freeze Germany out. Germany was the only country in the world capable of beating Britain in oil production in free competition. So WWI was simply Britain making sure the was no free trade in the middle east.
 
whe are not going atack venezuela or Saudi Arabia because of an oil monopoly it's exagerating
 
still germany and austria are responsible for outbreak because of greed in land and an empire.
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 19:27

Germany did have a stake in Colonialism as well under the Wilhelmian regime, Bismarck knew not to ponder about too risky goals, he saw true potential in exploiting the East, and maintaining the treaty with Russia.  Wilhelm's downfall was appeasing the crumbling Hapsburgs, and his lack of foresight, alongside his inept diplomatic abilities. Not to mention that he was a tad bit hardheaded. All of these factors contributed toward the outbreak of the Great War, however, they did not all contribute to the arising competition, and squabbling among the Great Powers. Britain certainly had a greedy hand to play, alongside the French, they learned their lesson fifty years earlier under Napoleon III that the German, or rather the Prussians were the German Emperors of Old rather than the feeble Feudal states compromising a already weakened "Holy" Roman Empire. They armed, they entrenched, they fortified, and they strengthened their diplomatic ties to Britain, and to Russia, as soon as their treaty with Germany ran out. That put Germany into a impossible situation to win any type of war. However, the German elite was to blame for the war as well. True, they never intended a "World" war, however, there are plenty of documents, of military planing for a war, of correspondence, the aura was ripe for a short "Bismarckian" war at the close of the first decade of the twentieth century. The elite knew of Bismarck's remarkable reactionary achievement after the two short wars with Austria and France. Bismarck himself never a nationalist had no real personal ambitions to unite with the "southern" Germans, he had his German Confederation of northern industrialist states under the dominance of Prussia. However, he did have a rising middle class that wanted rights, that wanted expanded trading privileges, that wanted a share of power as the Nobility's role in economic dominance was coming to a close. In short he realized that war would put the ambitions of both social orders under the government, under the Kaiser, so a war that unified Germany gave the liberals their Nationalistic dream, gave them the power of the Prussian army and influence abroad, the protection for their business ventures at the price of giving up their democratic ambitions. This did not happen in France or in Britain where the middle class succeeded. Germany now unified under staunchly reactionary Aristocracy, with the industrialists as their junior partners had relative stability for the next two generations. Nevertheless, toward the 1910s that stability was waning, strikes, the socialist party, etc were gaining momentum, the clock could not be turned back any longer through diplomatic means with the various progressive movements, the reactionaries' hopes and dreams lay on a short Bismarck war that would rile the people behind the Kaiser, and give them perhaps another ten twenty years of unquestioned dominance. When Austria's crown prince got murdered, and the greedy Austrian government seeing potential expanding in the Balkans sent a diplomatic mission to Berlin, the Kaiser without thinking about it gave them a go ahead... shortly thereafter Germany had mobilized and declared war on France and Russia.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 19:28
Sorry double post, can a mod. please delete the first post.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 21:53
Originally posted by chimera

Britain had Hanoverian kings and as an Anglo-Saxon conquered land, it belonged to Germany. It had no right to fight Wilhelm to whom it owed obedience.

chimera



That's absurd.
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  Quote chimera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 22:49
obviously- Britain was not denying Germany oil, the theme of this thread. 
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 23:10
Originally posted by Constantine XI

That's absurd.
 
I agree.
 
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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 23:22
Originally posted by chimera

Britain had Hanoverian kings and as an Anglo-Saxon conquered land, it belonged to Germany. It had no right to fight Wilhelm to whom it owed obedience.

chimera


That is completely absurd. Not only is your Anglo-Saxon comment inaccurate (sure, the Scots and the Irish may have been ruled by a Germanic ruler, but the Anglo-Saxons never penetrated much into either of the two states). Also, how does Britain owe any allegiance to Germany because its ruler was Germanic. Do the Poles owe the Russians any allegiance because their rulers are Slavs?

Anyways, I sort of agree with Paul here, and I have always found World War I as the war with no real good side. Sure, the Axis may have been imperialistic, but as if the British had any room to talk? Look what they did to the Arab states during the war. They promised them freedom, and then they installed puppet governments in the countries for oil. I wish that my country would have never gotten involved in the war between European imperialists.


Edited by Emperor Barbarossa - 16-Feb-2007 at 23:24

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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 02:54

I know this may be somewhat flawed, but sufficient enough for essay defending German Empire...

German had no choice but to attack. France, ever since their defeat of the Franco-Prussian War, swore for revenge. Russia is getting impatient with Germany for not siding with them in the Congress of Berlin about the Balkan issue, and feel they are betrayed. They side with France, making Germany more desparate.
 
Germany's only reliable ally is Austria-Hungary. If Austria-Hungary is left unsupported, they would lose to combined forces of Serbs and Russians. Further Slavik expansion would threaten the German interest. It wanted to maintain the balance of power, to prevent one power to become too strong to be able to dominate Europe and... German Empire.
     
   
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  Quote chimera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 03:37
"That is completely absurd."
I say again- "obviously". It's satire. Irony. How could Germany's invasions not be be its fault? Did Britain owe Germany the right to dominate? Did Europe provoke Genghiz Khan to invade?
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  Quote Top Gun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 05:13
Originally posted by pekau

I know this may be somewhat flawed, but sufficient enough for essay defending German Empire...

German had no choice but to attack. France, ever since their defeat of the Franco-Prussian War, swore for revenge. Russia is getting impatient with Germany for not siding with them in the Congress of Berlin about the Balkan issue, and feel they are betrayed. They side with France, making Germany more desparate.
 
Germany's only reliable ally is Austria-Hungary. If Austria-Hungary is left unsupported, they would lose to combined forces of Serbs and Russians. Further Slavik expansion would threaten the German interest. It wanted to maintain the balance of power, to prevent one power to become too strong to be able to dominate Europe and... German Empire.
 
I agree with this
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  Quote Top Gun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 05:16
Originally posted by chimera

"That is completely absurd."
I say again- "obviously". It's satire. Irony. How could Germany's invasions not be be its fault? Did Britain owe Germany the right to dominate? Did Europe provoke Genghiz Khan to invade?
chimera
 
its  a pure ameuteristic theory
 
one kingdoms alwasy let mary eachother daughters and princes
 
if your theory is right then austria had then requested the whole of france
 
and please this is realy absurd how do you come on such an theoryDead
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 09:57
 
Originally posted by chimera

Britain had Hanoverian kings and as an Anglo-Saxon conquered land, it belonged to Germany. It had no right to fight Wilhelm to whom it owed obedience.

chimera

 
That's pretty twisted. The succession to the English throne goes back much father than Wilhelm's claims. The Hohenzollerns were relative upstarts anyway*, and his Imperial title only dates from 1871.
 
Moreover, the whole rationale of the Hanoverian succession was that George I was the legitimate heir of the English queen (once you ruled out the Roman Catholics) and was so recognised. As such, Hanover belonged to the King of England, not the other way around.
 
*None of them had even a local royal title until 1701, at which time the English crown had been around for something like 1,000 years, and George's title to it traced back to at least 1066.
 
The Hohenzollerns weren't even margraves until 1415, and as dukes of Prussia they were vassals of Poland-Lithuania until 1657.
 
Margaret of Denmark has a better claim than Wilhelm ever could have had, though currently Harald of Norway is the closest non-English person in the line of English succession.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 10:42
On the oil question, it wasn't German oil the British were after. If you ignore any Arab claims, the oil was Ottoman and Persian. If there was to be a war over it, it would have been between Britain and the Ottomans. The rest of Europe, let alone the world, need never have got involved.
 
Meanwhile, back in Europe:
 
Originally posted by pekau

German had no choice but to attack. France, ever since their defeat of the Franco-Prussian War, swore for revenge. Russia is getting impatient with Germany for not siding with them in the Congress of Berlin about the Balkan issue, and feel they are betrayed. They side with France, making Germany more desparate.
That's not unreasonable except that Germany had plenty of choices, and no need to be 'desperate'.
 
However, Germany didn't start the war, Austria did with a declaration of war on Serbia on July 28, following the assassination in Sarajevo, and based on Serbian attempts to bring independence to the Austrain Slav territories.
 
Russia and Germany both mobilised. Germany demanded Russia stop mobilising, and when they refused, declare war on August 1. That was their first optional choice.
 
The next day, Germany invaded and occupied Luxembourg, breaking all sorts of treaties and guarantees in the process. Second optional choice.
 
On that same day, Germany issued an ultimatum to Belgium, demanding free passage for German armies. The Belgians, whose neutrality had been guaranteed by Germany, refused. (At this point the Kaiser is still privately expressing the hope that Britain would not get involved, much like Hitler in 1939.) That was the third optional choice.
 
On August 3 Germany declared war on France, and on the following day invaded Belgium. Fourth and fifth optional choices.
 
To the surprise of most Germans, including the Chancellor Bethmann Hollweg, Britain declared war over the Belgian invasion, under its guarantees in the treaty of 1839, the treaty that Hollweg famously dismissed as 'a mere scrap of paper' when he was asking the leaving British ambassador why on earth Britain took it seriously.
 
So - Austria started it (or possibly, if you like, the Serbs) and Germany turned it into a pan-European and subsequently global conflict through blatant aggression and total disregard for international law and treaty obligations.
 
That it 'had no choice' is simply blatant propaganda.
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  Quote chimera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 16:36
Originally posted by chimera

Britain had Hanoverian kings and as an Anglo-Saxon conquered land, it belonged to Germany. It had no right to fight Wilhelm to whom it owed obedience.

chimera

 
"That's pretty twisted. "
This is the 3rd time I am writing this: - my words are satire. Irony.
It means that I don't support my words. Look up "satire. irony"  in the dictionary. 
Britain threatened Germany less than US threatened the 9/11 attackers.
(that is my actual view)
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 19:08
Originally posted by chimera

This is the 3rd time I am writing this: - my words are satire. Irony. It means that I don't support my words. Look up "satire. irony" in the dictionary.
 
We know what those words mean so spare us the sarcasm & don't blame people at AE for calling those remarks absurd.
 
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  Quote Dan Carkner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 23:53
From Blackadder:
Lieutenant George: The war started because of the vile Hun and his villainous empire-building.
Captain Blackadder: George, the British Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consists of a small sausage factory in Tanganyika. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front.

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  Quote chimera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 01:35
"We know what those words mean so spare us the sarcasm & don't blame people at AE for calling those remarks absurd."
 No they don't know, because several have given serious arguments against the absurdity.  The satire is not absurd when it rejects the view that Britain caused Germany to invade. Germany took Alsace-Lorraine, so it was France's fault for getting in the way? The oil theme is absurd- so it was Britain's fault for getting in the way? I thought Hitler had no children.
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 01:57
Originally posted by chimera

No they don't know, because several have given serious arguments against the absurdity.
 
Yes they do know, because the people who commented are intelligent.
 
Originally posted by chimera

The satire is not absurd when it rejects the view that Britain caused Germany to invade. Germany took Alsace-Lorraine, so it was France's fault for getting in the way? The oil theme is absurd- so it was Britain's fault for getting in the way? I thought Hitler had no children.
chimera
 
No need - you already admitted that you didn't mean what you wrote, so things are clear now.
 
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