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What happened to Khitan race?

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  Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What happened to Khitan race?
    Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 21:02
If you are an expert on Chinese history, you are probably familiar with Liao dynasty(辽 916-1125) which was found by the Kitan people, but where did they go after the Manchus took over?


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  Quote Easternknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 19:20
Thats a Good Question :) though I do not know, wasn't it the Mongols that brought down the Liao Dynasty not the Manchus. seeing how I don't know but one Manchu I know said they have since been assimalted [bad sp I know] into P.R.C though in ancient times I don't know.
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  Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 22:45
you sure, because i thougt Jin dynasty which was found by the Manchus.

seeing how I don't know but one Manchu I know said they have since been assimalted [bad sp I know] into P.R.C though in ancient times I don't know

i thought PRC was established in 1949.
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  Quote galvatron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 22:55
The Jin was founded by Nuzhen not Manchu ,Manchu was the sucessor of the Nuzhen ,they was no manchu before 1636 until Hongtaiji changes the Nuzhen name to Manchu.
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  Quote MING-LOYALIST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2007 at 02:04
Most Khitans remained in the Jin dynasty, some went with Yelu dashi and fled westwards and estabilished the western Liao or Kara Khitai.
 
The Khitans in western liao were annhilated by Mongols and most likely merged with the central asian peoples and mongol peoples there.
 
The Khitan in Jin dynasty tryed to rebel against the Jin and sided with mongols, however most Khitans merged with Han people during Yuan dynasty.
 
it is said Daur(dawuer) people are the only modern day direct descendents of Khitans.
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  Quote Easternknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2007 at 22:58
Originally posted by Siege Tower

you sure, because i thougt Jin dynasty which was found by the Manchus.

seeing how I don't know but one Manchu I know said they have since been assimalted [bad sp I know] into P.R.C though in ancient times I don't know

i thought PRC was established in 1949.
 
I was talking about in Modern Times I was told they have merged with other groups in china. the PRC comment with Ancient times was bad grammer on my part.
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  Quote cliveersknell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 17:35

I was told , that the Khitan eventually evolved into the Manchus.

The Nuzhen were wiped out by the Mongols and scattered into the 4 winds. But the Khitan state supported by the mongols continued in existence.
It Nurhaci were Nuzhen, why did he chose a variant of the mongol script?
 
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 17:38
Originally posted by MING-LOYALIST

Most Khitans remained in the Jin dynasty, some went with Yelu dashi and fled westwards and estabilished the western Liao or Kara Khitai.
 
The Khitans in western liao were annhilated by Mongols and most likely merged with the central asian peoples and mongol peoples there.
 
The Khitan in Jin dynasty tryed to rebel against the Jin and sided with mongols, however most Khitans merged with Han people during Yuan dynasty.
 
it is said Daur(dawuer) people are the only modern day direct descendents of Khitans.


I nvr understood why the used Kara it's translated as Black chinese don't use Kara it's of Turkic origin hell even today we use kara.  so why use ut?
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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  Quote MING-LOYALIST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 19:53
We Chinese used to call it Xi-liao or western liao however islamic histories called it kara-khitai and we chinese translated to hala-qidan.
 
We chinese among ourselves will nearly always called it western liao however when talking with international friends we add kara-khitai because more westerners know about it.
 
why its called black? I don't know.
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  Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2007 at 07:27
Originally posted by xi_tujue


I nvr understood why the used Kara it's translated as Black chinese don't use Kara it's of Turkic origin hell even today we use kara.  so why use ut?



good question, probably because they were converted to islam,  i just remembered that Chinese use refer Sunni muslim as the "black cloth".
Rumor says that the ruler of Kara-Kitan secretly converted to muslim, there's got to a connection.


Edited by Siege Tower - 12-Feb-2007 at 07:31
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  Quote MING-LOYALIST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2007 at 10:51
Originally posted by Siege Tower


good question, probably because they were converted to islam,  i just remembered that Chinese use refer Sunni muslim as the "black cloth".
Rumor says that the ruler of Kara-Kitan secretly converted to muslim, there's got to a connection.
Muslims were somewhat oppressed by the Khitans.
 
Before the khitans another group of muslim uyghurs called Kara-khans or black Khans ruled near the same area so maybe there is some connection there.
 
Or Black must have something to do with direction thus when khitans fled west they called themselves black khitans but the khitans didn't like muslims thats for sure.
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2007 at 14:40
black certainly has something to do with direction, as in the steppe world, colors were associated with the cardinal points (as well as the center). Thus black north, blue east, red south, white west, yellow -center. Kara Khitai would therefore be the Northern Khitai.
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  Quote YanWang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 05:32
Originally posted by Decebal

black certainly has something to do with direction, as in the steppe world, colors were associated with the cardinal points (as well as the center). Thus black north, blue east, red south, white west, yellow -center. Kara Khitai would therefore be the Northern Khitai.
 
i would like  to comment on this.
i think the steppe world might just shared the conception with Chinese.
because according to Chinese tradition and various chinese text sources,
this cardinal reference was more elaborate and conviencing.
 
some states the four sacred creatures are the Black tortoise of the north/upper 玄武, the Blue dragon of the east/left,  the Red bird of the south/lower,  and the White tiger of the west/right.


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  Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 12:09
wow, where did that came from?

but it is possible.
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  Quote Killabee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 18:21
Originally posted by MING-LOYALIST

Most Khitans remained in the Jin dynasty, some went with Yelu dashi and fled westwards and estabilished the western Liao or Kara Khitai.
 
The Khitans in western liao were annhilated by Mongols and most likely merged with the central asian peoples and mongol peoples there.
 
The Khitan in Jin dynasty tryed to rebel against the Jin and sided with mongols, however most Khitans merged with Han people during Yuan dynasty.
 
it is said Daur(dawuer) people are the only modern day direct descendents of Khitans.
 
I read an article long time ago saying they found some remnant of Khitan in Yunnan, China. They adopted Chinese surname "Chiang" and were all sinicized but still remained some rituals dating back to Liao Dynasty time.


Edited by Killabee - 15-Feb-2007 at 18:24
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  Quote tadamson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 10:31
For the record, most Khitans were adsorbed into the new Mongol structure.

Kharakhanids were a Kipchak led confederation.

Kara was used for Karakhanids and Karakhitai as 'black' (or Western) desert, both groups being set up there.  The term Western Liao dynasty seems to have started to become common in the Yuan period.
rgds.

      Tom..
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  Quote man2rk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2011 at 14:38
The Karahanids were the confederation of Uighur and Karluk tribal groups. The royal family was from the uighur yaghma clan. and the kara hitais were emerged mostly into kereits, naimans and uighurs in this part of central asia and some of them surrended to monggol army and went along to iran and also assimilated by the Iranian people.
History is something that victors write on the back of losers.
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  Quote Logicv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2011 at 20:21
If we're talking about the Khitan race, then the simply were assimilated by the Han, just as the Manchus have recently been. 

Fragments of the Khitan culture, on the other hand, in part survived through the Mongols. 
If it is not logical don't waste time thinking about it.
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  Quote baydlag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2013 at 00:39
Hi Ming Loyalist

Kara is not only use in Turkic people. Kara means Black in Mongolia too. Kara or Khara is not only colour name. We Mongolians calling whole or solid thing as Khar for example: Khar Khuch - Solid Power, Khar Khumun - Husband (if translate it straight Blackman), Khar Gobi - Whole Sand Desert (without any herb). Also among Inner Mongolians a tribe called Kharchin because of they were paying tribute to Khan only Airag or Kumis (brewed horse milk) nothing else.

So I think Kara Kitan means Whole Kitan or Solid Kitan people.

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  Quote baydlag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2013 at 00:46
In present time Dahuri people (in northern Inner Mongolia, Xingjiang and Manchuria)still claiming them descendants of Kitans. They were living present day Russian Amur province and Lesser Khingan Mountains in Manchu Qing era and pushed by Russians to south. Qing Emperor dispatched several thousand Dahuri soldiers to stay in Jungaria after they invaded Oirats. Still some Dahuri are in Xinjiang aswell.
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