Should the Kurds be given independence?

Originally posted by Dan Carkner Perhaps they should *have* independance, but they shouldn't be *Given* it.  I mean that "The West" or whoever shouldn't have the right to give or take away independance. You compare it to 1918-1919 redrawing of maps, well perhaps this is another map redrawn by the west that would cause endless problems down the road.  I'm not saying I am anti-Kurdish-independance, but like someone said, it's not independance either to be an American protectorate..

This is the reality check post for all the supporters (like me)

The way they gain it is very important, if its imposed on turkey iran or syria then it just makes for future trouble and a less (if not non-) viable nation. While other details like Turkmen, Assyrian, yazidi and other (religious and ethnic) minorities have to be taken care of. Its not as simple as drawing a map; its writing constitutions, treaties and political maturity of all involved.




Edited by Leonidas - 07-Feb-2007 at 03:44

Originally posted by Zagros Originally posted by Cent Btw, Zagros, do you know who Ako Kordnasab is?   He was captured by pasdaran in Sanandaj for doing a report from a polling station.   "Journalist Ako Kordnasab, who was doing a report from a polling station in Sanandaj, was attacked and arrested by the regime�s thugs."   http://regimechangeiniran.com/2006/12/the-facts-about-the-sham-elect/ Is he OK? Unfortunately, this is nothing unusual, anyone who engages in political activity outside the scope of the Islamic Republic is reprimanded. A pollster was jailed and had his newspaper shut down a year and a half ago in Tehran because he comprised a poll that said the majority of Iranians prefer good realtions with America. He was not Kurdish. My dad is wanted for having affiliations to the Fedayan e Khalq. (NOT MKO) Ten years ago they lured one of his old colleagues to Azerbaijan republic on a fake business deal and kidnapped him took him to Evin and tortured him. They released him, a broken man, some years later and took away his passport.

Originally posted by pekau Originally posted by Dan Carkner Perhaps they should *have* independance, but they shouldn't be *Given* it.  I mean that "The West" or whoever shouldn't have the right to give or take away independance. You compare it to 1918-1919 redrawing of maps, well perhaps this is another map redrawn by the west that would cause endless problems down the road.  I'm not saying I am anti-Kurdish-independance, but like someone said, it's not independance either to be an American protectorate..   Very true. Remember what happened to Yugoslavia?

Originally posted by Zaitsev Personally, I say no. Plain and simple. There are several reason why it wouldn't work, and shouldn't happen. Firstly, drawing national borders along ethnic lines, especially in the middle east, is a very foolish idea. Israel is a great example of how this only leads to further bloodshed and persecution. Secondly, you would be carving territory out of nations that already exist, and would probably object to the idea. Again Israel demonstrates a problem with this. Other examples include Kuwait, which was meant to be part of Iraq, but Britain excluded it for its own interests. Cutting countries into smaller and smaller groups is a way of keeping the Middle East in check, helping developed nations get a better deal on oil. As much as it sounds cynical and paranoid, it happens. The less united the Middle East is, the better of America will be. While there's nothing inherently wrong with this, it also reduces the wealth of the developing middle eastern nations. Finally, the nation can only exist in two states. It could either exist as a protectorate and puppet state of a powerful western nation, most likely America, or it could be annexed by another nation, such as Turkey or possibly Iran in the future. This is especially a problem because the region officially proposed for a "Kurdish Nation" in Iraqi lands is the most oil rich. American agenda anyone?

look at china and you can find alot of  ethnics that don't have their own country and some of the even more than kurds or look in India. You can find some ethnics that are more than kurds in number but still live with other ethnics within thier country.

Cent

Gcle

GCLE I think Bulldog has addressed most of your misconceptions, however I will also point out that, as far as I am aware at this time, Israel is the only "ethnic state". It's possible there are a few others around, but generally they do not exist. There is no "you're a German you can live here otherwise shove off to France" state. There is no state in which only Norwegian people can reside. The fact that the majority of a nation's population is of one "ethnicity" does not make it an "ethnic state". It's tragic to see that some people can't get past the us vs them mentality when considering ethnic groups and nations.

Originally posted by Cent "Actually gcle, perhaps you fail to grasp democracy here. A referendum would have to apply to the whole voting body of the nations. The kurds are not the whole nation, and therefore should not get special voting rights over others."   What? A referendum should be to those it concerns.   When Kurds in Iraq made a referendum it was ONLY people living in Northern Iraq who got to vote. Not people in Basra or Baghdad.

also ONLY kurds where allowed to vote for the referendum, not any other people living in northern Iraq. It's like we say it in Turkish "play and dance on your own" (kendin cal kendin oyna).

Also tell me why should someone in basra, bagdat or any other non-kurdish living place should vote for kurdish independence? Dont fly to high I say, you can dream but face the facts also.

also as I earlyer stated "if" that country will exist, it wouldnt survive hours. Just look at the video's below, you can see what kind of "guns" Turkey has on his hands (economical).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fTT3gje6ws

"those who doesnt wants referendum are our enemy's" the head of Kerk�k police corps (he's kurdish himself)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex6S8jhPqlc

a sirious Turkish tv program with Israeli president Ehud Olmert, debating about Israeli presence in northern Iraq, wich he (olmert) refuses and calls it as "Bullsh*t".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b52-uX-dzU


Cent, I know the grass looks more greener when if you look from Sweden, but from here I see not any grass but a big desert.