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Was Ancient Greek Religion originally Mono-theist?

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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Was Ancient Greek Religion originally Mono-theist?
    Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 11:42
Was Ancient Greek Religion originally Mono-theist? Was Zeus the initial God and later other God's and Goddess' were used to explain all the power's of God Zeus?
 
Or was it originally polythiest?
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 12:17
Technically all polytheist religions are monotheist and all monotheist religions are polytheist.Smile
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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 13:35
Anything sorry.




Edited by Ikki - 03-Feb-2007 at 13:52
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 13:48
It is the other way round: monotheistic religions come from polytheistic religions in which one God is favored and the rest eventually forgotten.

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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 15:17
Actually you'll find most religions began as Monothiest, later it turned to polythiesm to explain the immense power of the creater God in way's more easier for us to comprehend. For example Hinduism was initially Monothiest and to some still is.
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 07:36
Yes, but Judaism was polutheistic at first and evolved into monotheist when the people began to value Jaweh the war-god over the others... There is still evidence of other gods in the old books. (old testament/pentateugh/torah, whatever you call it...)
 
And many illiterate societies seem to have polytheistic religions, because monotheistic religions tend to be a lot more theoretical and perhaps also a bit more artificial.

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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 07:13
Basically,Ancient Hellenic religion was polytheistic.The problem is that Ancient Hellenic religion did not have a holy book,from which we would extract usefull info.There is one opinion that the 12 were simple 12 aspects of God.But ,there were many many other second and third class Gods and Godesses in Ancient Hellenicf Pantheon.
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  Quote Athanasios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 08:50

If i'm correct , Plato Aristotle and Socrates mentioned one real God and they are considered by Greek Orthodox church as a kind of saints(i'm not pretty sure but i can still remember a wall painting of Fotis Kontoglou when those three were depicted as typical Greek orthodox saints). Socrates Aristoteles and Plato in order to "fight" the Gods of the Athenean democratic society , the mythological ones ,manufactured the god of metaphysics and ideology, that was connected with the theories of philosophers and the sovereigns of oligarchy.Thus, the god of metaphysics is absolutely spiritual, is impersonal, a being that in his has a group of abstract ideas.


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  Quote olvios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 13:21
The whole problem is when the conflict began with  "modern" religions.Pagan  religions  would  change and "evolve" and had no dogma but judaic religions(islam,cristianity,judaism)  had a dogma thus changed slightly.
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  Quote New User Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2007 at 22:43
Originally posted by Bulldog

Was Ancient Greek Religion originally Mono-theist? Was Zeus the initial God and later other God's and Goddess' were used to explain all the power's of God Zeus?
 
Or was it originally polythiest?
 
There is not much in the way of weighty evidence for real early Greek religion but it seems Zeus was a later addition by invaders who was married to a possible early fertility goddess (Hera?) It does seem that early Greek religion involving Zeus and the pantheon more known to us today started as a poly-theistic religion involving many culture's Gods into one pantheon eventually.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2007 at 01:16
Let's not forget the God multiplied over time. Originally we have Geia, Uranos and Kronos - other gods came later. So it may be possible that early Greek religion was mono or di-theist, but then changed to become polytheist. Of course, this is all speculation.
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2007 at 02:37
Bulldog and Athanasios are correct.
It is originally 1 which is divided into infinite number of gods. The 12 most important are those who became popular due to their myths and tradition. The 6 male and 6 female gods represent the balance (in general) that must be preserved.

It is true that Plato mention always 1 god. Sometimes i wonder if the initial god is Zeus or if it is nature or Gaia. I haven't come to a conclution yet so i skip analyzing this.


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  Quote Mumbloid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2007 at 03:55
original religions were animistick, were the spirits of ancestores and of a certain place were worshipped (caves, hills, waterfalls ect).
 Later with the first cities the spirits were transformed into gods, and the shamans into priests. The holy places were turned into temples and so on.

Monotheism is a later insertion, were the king/farao/pontifex was the servant of the chosen god; usually mixed with nationalism (see judaism).
 So all religions at start were polhyteistick, and later they were replaced or turned into monoes.


 
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2007 at 08:51
The term animistic is too simplistic for now days, but generally I agree with you Mumbloid.

Edited by elenos - 29-Jun-2007 at 08:57
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2007 at 17:56
Originally posted by Mumbloid

original religions were animistick, were the spirits of ancestores and of a certain place were worshipped (caves, hills, waterfalls ect).Later with the first cities the spirits were transformed into gods, and the shamans into priests. The holy places were turned into temples and so on.


Well said.

Monotheism is a later insertion, were the king/farao/pontifex was the servant of the chosen god; usually mixed with nationalism (see judaism).So all religions at start were polhyteistick, and later they were replaced or turned into monoes.


Process of consolidation. Under primitive animism, there was a spirit for every rock and tree. As gods developed, the powers of these spirits were consolidated into singular figures (for instance, a tree under animism is a spirit; under early polytheism, it is only a temporary abode for a spirit, who may inhabit other trees and become a god of the forest). Early deities had a 'portfolio' - the power they had consolidated, their particular realm of influence, which might be wind or forests or bodies of water. Over time even these portfolios were consolidated into fewer hands, so that a god might hold the portfolio for life and death, water, intelligence, crafts, and earth (eg Enki, the Sumerian deity). Monotheism is simply the consolidation of all portfolios into the hands of single deity, the final stage of the process.

An interesting book on the process - still a classic in anthropological literature - is the Golden Bough, a study of the origins and evolution of religion and magic featuring the Greek religion prominently. Complete text available online:

http://www.bartleby.com/196/

Edited by edgewaters - 29-Jun-2007 at 18:01
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 02:03

Complete text for the Golden Bough? It has been called one of the longest books in the English language! Some criticize Frazers work by saying he was an armchair traveller and had never been to any of the places. Such critics miss the point of this important study. He pulled together many threads from all over the world to show the sympathic magic common among all people in a story telling way (that in my opinion) has never been equalled since before BBC TV documentaries.

 He was most criticized for talking about vegetation gods that live, die and arise again with the seasons. It was not politically correct to talk about such things and it still isnt, so the best of his findings were glossed over without intellectual debate. Margaret Mead attacked the works of Frazer, yet many her tainted works have now been dismissed.

 Having a god as such is still not a reality in many countries. Those who want to investigate the subject further could start with Eastern religions, like Buddhism and Daoism. They have a heaven called the Pure Lands that exclude none, one works their way towards the state of ultimate bliss by becoming enlightened within the self. I am not recommending any religion here, but point out this worldwide way of religion has developed quite differently from so-called animism to having a so-called deity.   

 This directly links to the topic.  It may be difficult for some to understand but the early ancient Greeks (not the later) had a heaven before they had gods to fill it. Much like present day Eastern religions heaven basically lay within the self and beyond the borders of the realities of which this would imposes.

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  Quote Southerneighbr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 12:24
 Monotheism in ancient  Greece was never the ''trend''.
 
 Ancient Greece has a very interesting religious system.While it was polytheistic,Gods would constantly evolve and change.
 Most of polytheistic religions tend to have a certain number of Gods,while the Greeks would produce more and more Gods.
 
 Ancient Greek Gods,according to Greek mythology had ''human traits'',they would communicate with humans,they would learn from humans and they would intervene almost constantly.Their number would grow since they would marry to humans,thus producing demi-Gods.They would also produce off-spring from their interaction and give way to new God generations...It is defenetely interesting....
 
 To answer your question i dont believe ancient Greece was ever a strictly monotheistic society.
 
 Monotheism is only found in modern Greece,since the Ecumenical Patriarhate and the Greek Orthodox Church consider ancient Greek religion as a pagan one...
  A small number of modern Greeks have revived the ancient Greek religion and now practice it freely in Greece.Their number is negligable(3000 max) 
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 13:17
Originally posted by Southerneighbr

 
  A small number of modern Greeks have revived the ancient Greek religion and now practice it freely in Greece.Their number is negligable(3000 max) 


I would guess there are much more...Considering how many i have met it is kinda hard to imagine that it has been a coinsidence. The official declared "pagans" are around 3000 but imagine how many have X.O declared on their IDS while they're not into it. I know a couple of "pagans" that are declared christians on papers. A CNN report 2-3 months ago reported up to 100 000 people.


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  Quote Southerneighbr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 13:57
Originally posted by Flipper

Originally posted by Southerneighbr

 
  A small number of modern Greeks have revived the ancient Greek religion and now practice it freely in Greece.Their number is negligable(3000 max) 


I would guess there are much more...Considering how many i have met it is kinda hard to imagine that it has been a coinsidence. The official declared "pagans" are around 3000 but imagine how many have X.O declared on their IDS while they're not into it. I know a couple of "pagans" that are declared christians on papers. A CNN report 2-3 months ago reported up to 100 000 people.
 
 
 Well,in fact you are right.I have met a few of them but i was reffering to the official number which i heard on Greek TV was around 2000-3000.
  But i wouldnt be suprised if the number was much bigger.It seems it is a trend lately.
 But i would say 100.000 ppl seems a bit dubious.None the less whatever their actual number i believe its more than the official one....


Edited by Southerneighbr - 30-Jun-2007 at 13:58
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 15:33
Originally posted by Southerneighbr

 But i would say 100.000 ppl seems a bit dubious.None the less whatever their actual number i believe its more than the official one....


I agree...However, i don't think it is just a trend. Many customs have been preserved in some areas. In villages around Drama in Makedonia they still cellebrate pagan rituals alongside with the christian ones. Most are related to Dionyssus. The same goes for some villages around Sparta and Arcadia. Remember that those regions became christian in the 11th century AD...


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