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Topic ClosedLions vs. Tigers

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Poll Question: If lions and tigers were to have a deathmatch, who would win?
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lions vs. Tigers
    Posted: 19-Sep-2014 at 17:37

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hardwicke

The Bengal or Royal Tiger (Jig. 614.) is the scourge of Asia and the Indian islands. Equal in size to the Lion, though generally inferior in strength, it wants not courage or ferocity to attack the king of beasts; a temerity which generally proves fatal. Ferocity cannot be more horridly developed than in the Tiger: it may, indeed, be termed a sanguivorous animal, for it will suck the blood of its victim previously to eating it, and will seize on any other that may come in sight; treating it in the same way. Its horrid avidity is such, that, while so engaged, it will almost bury its head and face in the reeking carcase of its prey. According to Marsden, the tigers in Sumatra are so abundant, that whole villages are sometimes depopulated by Bengal Titer. them. Yet, from a superstitious prejudice, it is

http://books.google.com/books?id=GpFPAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA339&dq=lion+stronger+tiger+inferior&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0_EQVN2LKer7iwKx5oDIDQ&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAzgU


(with one blow from the lion you can see bone of the hyena)



The lion's great flat paw came whacking down — but she had wheeled away, gulping and choking over the chunk of meat. ... He roared, and caught one of the other hyenas a glancing blow that bared white ribs
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=He+roared%2C+and+caught+one+of+the+other+hyenas+a+glancing+blow+that+bared




I was surprised that a few lions were able to take a kill with inpunity from many hyenas. For example, one subadult male took a carcass from 17 hyenas, and 2 lionesses appropriated one from 31 hyenas.


(Biologist: Carl Akeley)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Akeley

From that time until now I have seen a great many lions, shot some and handled nearly fifty specimens, so that I have made a fairly extended study of the measurements and anatomy of the king of beasts. I have tried also to study his living characteristics and habits, but that is much more difficult. After all, perhaps the most impressive thing about a lion is his fore leg. The more you know of elephants the more you regard the elephant's trunk. The more you know of lions, the more you respect the lion's fore leg and the great padded and clawed weapon at the end of it. It is perhaps the best token of the animal's strength. It is probably two or three times as powerful in proportion to weight as the arm of a man. He can kill a man with one blow of his paw. His other weapon, his jaw, is strong enough to break a zebra's neck at one bite. These are a rather rough measure of an animal's strength, but they give some idea of it.

http://books.google.com/books?id=O20AAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA285&lpg=PA285&dq=pulling+power+lion&source=bl&ots=smb8Ot17m2&sig=tFjvCJYomnLQKGYsHuvemSeQy8w&hl=en&ei=MjbDTsydGKfy0gHpqqGKDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=pulling%20power%20lion&f=false


Carl was on badass of the week:
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/akeley.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=7ann2dYn9iYC&pg=PA272&dq=lion+attacks+hyena&hl=en&sa=X&ei=H_gRVLb9J4W4iwL0iICwCA&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAQ

lol Lions can battle there way through a whole clan of 150 lb hyenas, yet tigers bow down to packs of 50 lb wild dogs. The tiger uses his speed to blitz a wild dog and bite him dead, the lion waits for them to come in and uses his paw and whacks them to death:



The poor dog was destroyed in a moment: a single blow from the lion's paw rewarded his generous devotion with death
http://books.google.com/books?id=o3fPAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA366&dq=male+lion+attacked+blow+paw+hyena&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pvoRVLnlLKz4igKzwYGoAg&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAg



Lion breaks hyenas back with one swipe:
http://books.google.com/books?id=zLbL6qAu0RsC&pg=PA140&dq=male+lion++paw++hyena&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kvwRVPL9FIi9jALykIGIBw&ved=0CBIQ6AEwBjgK


Young male lion, with one arm body slaming a wildebeest:




(Trevor carnaby)

http://www.beataboutthebush.co.za/our-guides/trevor-carnaby.html

Some large lion kills, e.g. buffalo, giraffe, hippo or elephant, could take up to ten days to finish off completely. I know of a lone, large male (blind in one eye) that jumped onto the back of a large male wildebeest and broke its neck by pulling the muzzle back with one paw.
http://www.google.com/search?q=that+jumped+onto+the+back+of+a+large+male+wildebeest+and+broke+its+neck+by+pulling+the+muzzle+back+with+one+paw.&tbm=bks&tbo=1

A lioness was standing with one fore- paw on the body of a big Oryx bull, the other forepaw was descending with sledge-hammer blows... on the carcass ~The living age


(Sledge Hammer)



As a cat claws at a mouse which moves, not to kill, but merely to retain it, so the lion strikes with his sledge-hammer limb at the at head or leg or hand which his victim moves. As the bite is not necessary to kill, the blow from the mighty paws having already destroyed all power of resistance.

~The book of popular science vol 2 Grolier Society, 1957

"The weight of the lion's body, as compared with its size, is very remarkable, and is accounted for by the singular density of the muscles and the compactness of the principal bones; which latter, like the teeth of the hippopotamus, will produce fire with steel. The force with which he must alight after a bound of fifteen or twenty feet is, therefore, sufficiently obvious, and his massy paw will batter in the skull of an ox quite as effectually as if a sledge-hammer had been employed." To once again institute a comparison of the lion with the tiger, the average weight of the former, so far as can be ascertained, is considerably greater, and though "record" weights cannot help one much in finding an average, it is interesting to note that the heaviest weight authentically recorded of a lion is 583 lb., and of a tiger 54o lb.
http://books.google.com/books?id=gs0aAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA524&dq=sledge-hammer+lion+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=U88cVNm_L9e3ogTKlYDQDg&ved=0CBgQ6AEwCTgU


(John borrow who lived in cape africa)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_John_Barrow,_1st_Baronet

I have myself," says Mr Barrow, the well-known African traveller, " witnessed an instance of a very young lion conveying a horse a mile from the spot where he had killed it: and a more extraordinary case has been mentioned to me on good authority, where a lion, having carried off a heifer of two years old, was followed on the track for five hours, above thirty English miles, by a party on horseback; and throughout the whole distance, the carcass of the heifer was only once or twice discovered to have touched the ground." The strength of the animal is still more fully exhibited, perhaps, by the manner in which he kills his prey. To effect this, he seldom or never uses his teeth or claws; a stroke of his paw is in general sufficient, and one of his blows has been known frequently to break the back of a horse. It is true, that at his first onset the whole weight of his body assists in bringing the prey to the earth; the attack being always made by a spring from a considerable distance—such a distance, indeed, as is alone sufficient to indicate his great power. For this spring he lies couching and preparing, in the attitude best fitted to give force to the exertion. Even when the prey is on the ground, he still uses his paw, till his stroke is mortal.
http://books.google.com/books?id=QEkLAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA362&dq=witnessed+seen+lion+paw+break&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GVYSVKfUD9GoyATH0IKoBA&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA

(Steam hammer)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_hammer

Antelopes, zebras and wild asses are much sought by them, but in those regions where wild game is being exterminated by the white man, they attack domestic cattle, goats, pigs, ponies and camels. Their powerful forelegs, nineteen inches around, and their great feet, armed with sharp, horny claws, constitute a terrible weapon whose striking power has been likened to that of a steam-hammer. Sometimes they kill their victim with a single blow, but if not, the huge paw may grasp the nose of the animal and jerk back its head so as to break the neck, or the cruel teeth may fasten themselves on the blood vessels in the throat. When several lions take part in a slaughter the leader usually consumes a "lion's share of the feast," while the others help themselves to what may remain.

The lion is generally supposed to be a fearless creature, possessing those qualities one expects to find in a king of the animal world.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Aa8eXtG452kC&pg=PA3453&dq=african+lions+powerful+fore+legs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=b14SVOKDEoeoyAScv4GICA&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAg


The habits of the Asiatic lions do not differ much from those of Africa, excepting that the former, from the state of the country, frequent jungles. In India the elephant is generally employed in the chase, which is conducted with more pomp and circumstance than in any other country. The grand Asiatic huntings of former times, those of Genghis Khan for instance, will occur to many of our readers. The accounts of most modern sportsmen give a very courageous bearing to the Asiatic lions in these encounters. One of them states that the lions in India, instead of running away when pursued through a jungle, seldom take to cover as a refuge at all. On the approach of their enemies, they spring out to meet them open-mouthed in the plain. They are thus easily shot; but if they are missed or only slightly wounded, they are most formidable adversaries. They are even said to have sprung on the heads of the largest elephants, and to have fairly pulled them to the ground, riders and all.

The Tigkr, or Royal Tiger, Fells tigris, stands next the lion in size; if the latter is a model of strength and grandeur, the former is the personification of beauty and grace.
http://books.google.com/books?id=YzhKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA257&dq=african+lion+the+most+powerful&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tWMSVLSVJsy1yATJuYGoAQ&ved=0CA4Q6AEwBA


The fact in the matter is, what ever the tiger has killed in india, so has the asiatic lion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5diRYuRHzag


The lion also has the highest bite pressure in newtons of any mammal on earth:

http://books.google.com/books?id=7o6pq4VR26YC&pg=PA248&dq=african+lion+the+most+powerful&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tWMSVLSVJsy1yATJuYGoAQ&ved=0CBYQ6AEwCA


So for single male lions frontal area strength feats via shoulder and front limbs:

-Killing a grizzly bear and brown bear with one blow
-Pulling a dead animal holding back a jeep with 4 wheel drive
-Knocking over a bull buffalo with his paws
-Pulling back a wildebeest head and breaking his neck with one arm
-Dragging a full grown giraffe several meters
-Smashing in heads of ox and cattle with one blow
-Pulling down juvi elephants
-Breaking the back of a leopard with one blow
-A blow from a lioness is that of a sledge-hammer
-Able to knock out 200 kg tigers with one blow
-Breaking the back of another male lion with a blow from his paw
-Snapping the necks of zebras with a single swipe
-Able to knock out other lions by striking them at the head
-Hitting fully grown tigers meters away with one blow
-A single lion pulling down a full grown rhino another breaking his leg
-Ripping off a bulls horn in a fight
-Able to bowl over polar bears with their striking
-Cracking a mans head open like an egg shell
-Able to knock down black bears with return fire
-Breaking the neck bones of muels with a single blow
-Killing hyenas with one blow of his paws
-Has been to a similar power out-put to a Nasmyth hammer
-Breaking the back of a siberian tigress with his paw
-Killing wild dogs with one blow
-Has been known as powerful as a Thunder bolt
-Body slamming a wildebeest with one arm
-Breaking the shoulders of horses
-Countless sources compare the lions paw strikes to that of a steam hammer.
-Experts like beatty (witnessd of hundreds of fights say the lion strikes much harder than the tiger
-Over ten sources say the lions paw power is the 3rd strongest offensive strike in the animal world after the whales tail and giraffes kick
-5 Sources say the lions striking is the strongest amongs carnivores


The only argument tiger fans have are that the lion needs his pride to hunt, neeeeds his pride, the fact is there are more accounts (individually) of lions single handedly killing bull buffalo then there are of tigers killing any bovine, the notion can be routed both ways:

(it takes 4+ tigers to bring down small female guars)




So? Guars are not formidable as the cape buffalo, for one thing there are countless accounts of 50 pound D'hole killing bull guar, Samuel W Baker ranked the african buffalo above even the lion in normal circumstances, the african buffalo is more active and better defended by his larger herds than the guar:

(Buffalo don't mess around)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf5TEjx_0Q8


Its stated every where that the lions paw is the strongest force of carnivorians, from Hunters, Biologist, Natives of africa, Animal trainers ect even in Dioramas of wildlife, its their job to re-create what they saw in the wild:

(Lions paw breaking a zebras neck)


(Lion smashing in a Wildebeast head)



It is important to remember that there are two British emblematic animals. The lion, a natural king of beasts, does not much overestimate himself when he is at his best and sobered by occasional defeat. Many beasts are afraid of him — not the eagle, far aloft! The lion can strike a blow so swift that you lose sight of his paw. He is a cat as well as a lion. When he closes his jaws upon his prey he does not easily unlock them. He has persistence, power, "pluck," as the British say. I have great respect for the lion: he has done wonders in the world.
http://books.google.com/books?id=zAfiAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA67&dq=lion+thunderbolt++paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=L8AcVJHRJIPYoATe8YGoCA&ved=0CAYQ6AEwADgy

[size=20]ANIMAL THAT STRIKES THE HEAVIEST

Like this source says, ask 9 out of 10 people who strikes the heaviest, and they will say the lion:
http://books.google.com/books?id=A94DAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA173&dq=lion+does+not+use+paw+blow&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GH8cVIznH4iwjALOmoHwDQ&ved=0CAgQ6AEwATgK


(Lion bashing a buffalo from the back with one paw flipping a near ton bull)



(Lion with one paw slaps a massive eland down)





The Eland got away, he was near the eland with a curious look, and decided to smack him with the predator worlds hardest strike. In fact heres a similar occaison, where the Eland didnt get away:


But a terrible explanation followed. This creature, having got to the skirt of the wood, expanded, by some strange magic, to an incredible size, and sprang into the open, with a growl, a mighty lion; he seemed to ricochet from the ground, so immense was his second bound, that carried him to the eland, and he struck her one blow on the head with his terrible paw, and felled her as if with a thunderbolt: down went her body, with all the legs doubled,~and her poor head turned over, and the nose kissed the ground. The lion stood motionless. Presently the eland, who was not dead, but stunned, began to recover and struggle feebly up.

Then the lion sprang on her with a roar, and rolled her over, and, with two tremendous bites and a shake, tore her entrails out and laid her dying. He sat composedly down, and contemplated her last convulsions, without touching her again.
http://books.google.com/books?id=hpo_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA7&dq=open+with+a+growl,+a+mighty+lion:+he+seemed+to+ricochet+from+the+ground,+so&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SrocVMXpDYjYoASKqIK4AQ&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAQ

(Thunder-Bolt)



No animal is magnimious as the lion is, as most will run in a head on confrontation, when the bulls back is then turn, they would re-route and jump on there backs, most try to disaprove Samuel W. bakers along with many others testimony and say that the lion never aims for and strikes the head of a buffalo, well heres to busting that myth:

Lion striking at buffalos head:






(Abyssinian Shield)


The huntsmen arm themselves with shield and spear, and shield and sword. The shield to be used to partly ward off the glancing blow of the lion's paw, and to break its force and prevent its claws from getting home when dashing past the animal at a great pace and at an angle; no shield that was ever made, or no human being that used it, could stop a direct blow or meet a blow from a full-grown lion, so it is never ridden at direct
http://books.google.com/books?id=oJhyAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA451&dq=lion+paw+shield+blow&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fMMcVM6GCce1ogTtvIG4Cg&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA


(Zoologist: Francis trevelyan Buckland)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Trevelyan_Buckland


The "pat" Of A Lion's Paw. 229
A pat with this formidable weapon is positively a fearful blow; the Nasmyth's steam-hammer, working with elegant ease, will strike a blow which the spectator would hardly expect without seeing its effects. The lion's paw is the Nasmyth's hammer in nature

(Nasmyth Hammer)

http://books.google.com/books?id=PfY-AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA229&dq=nasmyth+hammer+lions+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ubUcVKyGGY_8oQSPvIH4Cg&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA


The lion hardly uses his jaws in self defense, more so of his paws and claws:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4DlOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA443&dq=lion+one+blow+waterbuck+paw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wBUdVI-oM5L8oQSsuYKwAw&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAQ


strength of his jaw, terrible though it is, is as nothing compared to the force of his blows. With one stroke of his paw he can break the back of a bullock as he springs over it ; and the writer has seen a native with his head and neck literally telescoped by one of paws...
~Idler Magazine

(George Gilbert Goodwin)

The lion hunts the larger game such as water- buck, wildebeest, and kudu, but it seems to prefer the zebra. ... In its attack on a zebra, an experienced lion will gallop alongside the animal and slap it on the neck with its mighty paw. Then the king of beasts slows down and waits for the zebra to fall. The lion's blow may not cut the skin, but it is delivered...

(Charles Gutch)
having learnt in our childhood that the lion is the king of beasts, a very type of fiery courage and princely generosity, ... blow from his terrible paw cun knock over the largest animals, and crush any of the smaller — a dog or an antelope for...


Although, by this time, the lion is well able to take care of himself, he does not arrive at his full growth and force until he is nearly eight years old, and then he is truly a fearful beast. The tales that are told of the strength of the adult lion are almost incredible. At the age of three years he can kill a horse or an ox with a single blow of his paw; and a full-grown lion has been known to carry in his mouth an ox as big as himself for several miles, trotting along the whole time and never once stopping to put down his burden or to take rest.
The roaring of the lion is also terrible, and quite beyond description. The Arabs have but one word for it, and that is, 'thunder.
http://books.google.com/books?id=isANAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA12&dq=lion+blow+paw+boar&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9B0dVLXMF5CyogT25IDABQ&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAg


So the lion getting his legendary weapon of death, a different form of striking learned by a consistantcy of fighting with in prides (In-fighting) or Extracuricular fighting, which some lead to full on blood shed promoted by jeolousy, rank, lust or for food, brother against brother, father against son, nephew against uncle, grandpa against grandson ect helped him learn new arts of combat and sculpt his stronger blows of his paws, adding enviroment being in the open led more frequent clashes (out-fighting) against wild dogs, hyenas and other rival lions from lone males and females, coalitions and entire prides whom the lion extends his experince by fighting with blows from his paws... further perfecting his technique knocking down or breaking the backs of black wildebeest, (the larger) blue wildebeest and Zebra who can be on most times larger than lions, also pushing the limits of his striking strength further from his diverse ranges of his eco system knocking down and stunning with a single blow Kudu, (the larger) Greater Kudu and Sambar, who can be much larger than lions, a testiment in its self improving impact force on larger more durable prey, antelope who he knocks down/breaks the necks of with one blow Waterbuck, Eland, (the larger) The Giant Eland who can be up to 3 times heavier than lions, and the ultimate test although rare is quite numerous on a large scale the lion has felled and knocked over with a blow of his paw and smashed in the skulls of Oxen, Bullock, Cattle, Water buffalo and Cape buffalo who can be as much as 4x larger than a lion, this circulative persistant fighting/hunting method of using his paws, has a pattern of constant use, keeps it strong by contantly tested/steady, and better experinced improving it with every hunt/fight on these larger animals, which are his natrual prey fauna.

The tiger has but no animals he is known to improve striking on other than his own species and a few other predators, which rarely occur being solitary and actually prefers to avoid confrontation unless he must or has a marked advantage of ambush, he doesn't have a striking method, but a grasping, pulling down and gripping technique for hunting even small animals are killed by lacerations and not blunt force, his prey base is much less diverse, only but having large faunas such as sambar, water buffalo/cattle, deer and Guar. It is almost never mentioned he uses his paws to deliver blows specifically in hunting, its so rare even the few existing occaisons mentioned, the author has contradicting evidence, as one says he has a photo of a tiger killing a bullock with a single blow, but follows with the photo is a negative. He only uses his paws in striking against other predators that are often mentioned as leaving only superfical wounds, and they are quick, flury and rapid motion that packs no heavy hitting which logically his two main stances does not promote nor allow any increasage of strength per blow, via two stances contradicting his physiology: Pro-longed Bi-pedal and back-fighting, unlike the lion said by Zoologist from old (Buckland) to new, (Kessler) that he uses powerful, heavy and stunning hits that often break bones from limbs, to spines to skulls, in a more logical stance (45 degree angle) perfect for his shorter in length stockier built which compliments his larger robust shoulders and taller height, a stance and throwing method seen in many legendary boxers via Tyson, Butterbean, Marciano, in a form of haymakers, bombs and all out one hit punches...from natrulist, biologist, trainers, natives and all that has witnessed more than a few occaisons of lion hunting and fighting attribute his paws as the strongest striking weapon in the predator world.







Edited by Prime - 20-Sep-2014 at 04:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2014 at 17:43
Edited out:

Edited by Prime - 22-Nov-2014 at 18:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2014 at 21:16
I'll put in it, it was an initial response to this idiot:

Also in Chinese culture there are the dragon and lion dance but not the tiger dance, because it is the Chinese cultural view that unlike dragons and lions, tigers cannot be offended. You can however add this information as long as your edit isn't original research... But changing the section title is certainly no, as this information has nothing to do with cultural views. The tiger simply replaces the lion as the king of beasts in China and other Asian countries. Big Cats -talk 17:29, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tiger_versus_lion#Cultural_views_on_the_topic


Animal Face off even in asia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN_vzhTzMZg

Malay:

(Entire citys have been named after the lion)

The English language name Singapura comes from the Malay Palembang, Singapura meaning "Lion City"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Singapore


Japanese size comparison:


(Cultivated by a real account)

A lion slaps on the face of a tiger as they fight for the control of a pool at a zoo in Nanjing, east China's Jiangsu province July 18, 2004. The lion finally occupied the cool water of the pool in the summer heat wave after it defeated its challenger in two minutes.
http://english.people.com.cn/200407/20/eng20040720_150169.html

(Korea)
A lion is kept in a cage at Jeonju Zoo, North Jeolla Province, Wednesday, after attacking and killing a tiger in the zoo. The body of the dead tiger was taken to a veterinary hospital in the zoo. / Yonhap

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/12/117_36355.html

(China)





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNlRBGq3rmk


(Vietnam)
Lioness trys to eat tiger, is saved by male lion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWQx1k_jzR8


(China)

http://deep717.blogspot.com/2008/02/angry-lion-rips-off-tigers-tail.html


(India)

Indian Expert Damoo Dhotre:

http://www.circusesandsideshows.com/performers/damudhotre.html

THE FAMOUS Dhotre, an Indian animal trainer who appeared with many European and American circuses during the 1940s and 1950s was once asked whether a lion or a tiger would win in a battle to the death. Dhotre said he would back a lion. although the tiger is faster, the lion is at least equal in strength. Although the tiger is as fierce and savage as any animal in the jungle the lion has boundless courage" he said in his memoirs in 1961 The heavy mane around the lion's neck also makes it difficult for another animal to grip the lion's throat with his teeth, according to Dhotre.
http://www.google.com/search?q=THE+FAMOUS+Dhotre%2C+an+Indian+animal+trainer+lion+tiger++site%3Anews.google.com%2Fnewspapers&ie=ISO-8859-1&source=newspapers

Singh hari shanka:


Artist in india charles catton:


When a connecting door between two cages was left open at Agartala, Bengal, by a forgetful zoo attendant, a very large tiger charged its neighbor, a lion. The fight was ferocious, but did not last long, the lion literally tearing the tiger to pieces.”A sweeper left the cc door between the two cages open and the the lion dodged the first attack and then went into close quarters and maintained his right to the title of king of the jungle by klllIng the tigress.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/courant/access/851717652.html?dids=851717652:851717652&FMT=CITE&FMTS=CITE:AI&type=historic&date=Sep+11%2C+1936&author=&pub=Hartford+Courant&desc=Lion+Kills+Attacking+Tiger&pqatl=google


http://books.google.com/books?id=J0rME6RjC1sC&pg=PA36&dq=the+lion+outstrips+the+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bVdaUfiiKsTviQLHp4DYDg&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA

The tiger is known to be inferior in position to the lion. It is also stated that the king should promote the soldiers' strength and valour by organising hunting excursions against tigers and big game. Thus we read that, just as even the tiger* and the elephant cannot govern the lion, the king of beasts, so all the councillors combined are unable to control the king, who acts at his own sweet will.
http://books.google.com/books?id=I8krAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA246&dq=the+tiger+was+never+a+symbol+lion+tamil&hl=en&sa=X&ei=H6pJVKu5MbeUsQTQ4oCwDQ&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA

(A page from the mahabarata/War storys)


Alas, like a tiger slain by a lion, or an elephant by an infuriate elephant, that warrior hath.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Alas%2C+like+a+tiger+slain+by+a+lion%2C+or+an+elephant+by+an+infuriate+elephant%2C+that+warrior+hath&tbo=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=bks&ei=S1tYVLDKCYW0oQS2s4HABg&sa=N


(Two young lionesses kill adult white tigress)

One of only 70 white tigers left in the world has died a month after being wounded in a fight with two young lions in an Indian zoo. Nandan Kanan animal park
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=MWSB&p_theme=mwsb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB82D10F0087120&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

The lion takes over..only in 1972was the tiger declared Indias national animal at last replacing the lion that was ruled so meaninglessly for more than 2,000 years
http://books.google.com/books?id=xYi3HztW19YC&pg=PA202&dq=tiger+kailash+sankhala+lion&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sqCRUJrREYbmiwLq2oDQDQ&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAQ


Zoo tiger surrcumbs presented to the Corpo ration zoo by Jamnagar State In 1949 died on Monday of Injuries sustained in a deadly combat with Leo
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_QNFAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Z7cMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3206,4386439&dq=zoo+tiger+succumbs+fight+with+lion&hl=en
http://www.google.com/search?q=Zoo+tiger+succumbs+fight+with+lion+&spell=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbs=ar%3A1&tbm=nws&ei=itkQUcikOLGxigLvvIGoCg&sa=N

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBdpiIxMnMM




1851, In the “Landshuter ZeitungA lion killed a tiger in the wild witnessed by local native’s of India
http://animalsversesanimals.yuku.com/topic/2388/Velar-Male-Lion-vs-Royal-Bengal-Tiger-valauble-rare-account


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._A._Nilakanta_Sastri

"References to the lion in the Padirruppattu, one to the dread of other animals in mountain slopes haunted by lions, and the other to the lion killing the tiger.

http://www.google.com/search?q=mountain+slopes+haunted+by+lions%2C+and+the+other+to+the+lion+killing+the+tiger+and+&tbm=bks&tbo=1&btnG=Search

A romance of Mughal times
A lion is a more formidable foe than a tiger, who, after all, is a cowardly beast. Macmillan, 1926 - 194 pages
http://books.google.com/books?id=DNtiOF9nBwkC&q=mahouts+lion+tiger+fight&dq=mahouts+lion+tiger+fight&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Wm-QULW-OsjdigKQnIHwBw&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBTgo

When the tiger was seized by the lions claw, Death
http://books.google.com/books?id=QBi2OLju39gC&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=lion+tiger+fight+suited+region&source=bl&ots=gzgy8hlxIc&sig=V2CHvhgzn4klwtkTgh1S2TNkzkg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vzNIUJL_CpDtiQLn_YDIBg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ


(Mughals)



(Indonisan)
Lion with throat grab on tiger:





(Korea)
(Zoo keeper at everland zoo Jeong sangjo)

Everland throne was occupied by the male lion over 10 years

Yongin Everland Zoo know what it is, who fights and lions and tigers. The grow it as a lion and a tiger.

Once the average weight, but the lion is slightly ahead of the level, is not a decisive factor in the game. The male lion is 200kg, females 140kg, a male tiger 180kg, larger than the tiger with a female lion 130kg. Is squirming around Cedar Lake. Lion boasts a stable posture to balance the total weight placed on both front foot and back foot. While the tiger is the weight mainly because your body can soon be put on the back foot rotation jeompeuryeok is excellent. There is also a slight difference between primary weapon. If the lion is massive paws straight from the stable posture primary weapon, the tiger is swift and quick jab Tapping value. Teeth attack a decisive role when the fight is similar to both. Digging deep into the flesh with sharp fangs are costs to 3ÜB length. film Showdown of the lion and tiger tuck. See example their fighting skills and habits from jeongsangjo keepers watched their fight 24 years from Everland Zoo.


Åü Law 1 = lion does not fight alone

"The lion and tiger fights and wins almost lion because lions always carry around a bunch built to fight alone while the Tigers' six days in the afternoon.

SEQ ID No. 1 zoo lion throne 'identity' is, he attacked the tiger sequence No. 2 'horong' with a female lion 'Kiara'. Rather than a one-sided fight was devastated. Tigers 'horong' This one was a lion was two. Tiger takes a defensive posture, but in vain posture lowers the bunch. Came to hit the 'id' front, 'horong' kicked the exposed flank between the forefoot to prevent this in the 'Kiara'. 'Horong' could be relevant to the ingenuity pincer of a lion. Lions are social communities that live with several generations from 1 year to 5 years of age in the wild is a strong animal. Siberian tiger solitude to live away from the hole with a large area of India to Bengal only inherently different. 20 day average of the lion, the tiger is 13 degree radiation are fighting this one goes on the lion and the tiger attack at least two groups. Especially sharp fielding lion attacked the tiger roar, this cry is a signal to attract the lion's surroundings. While the tiger is not absolute intervention Sinners deserve another tiger.

Åü Law 2 = horny female lion makes a fight "fight between a lion and a tiger

However, the female lion have deliberately crossed the border and would provoke a tiger. On May 27 the estrous female lion 'Rose' is moved to the tiger lazily walking area between the male lions nap. 'Rose' is 'id', 'Leo', 'travel', 'Annika' and looked at the male tiger sequence No. 2 'horong' chunky face the front of the foot touches tuk. 'Horong' cause this moment chwihaja corresponding body posture 'id' is Denis ran towards them 'horong' horong 'hit is less recoil. Day 'Rose' was a brave choice 'ID'.

Åü Law 3 = good at guerrilla warfare Tigers

"Tiger can not win a fight a lion moving in groups in front. The tiger commando attack falls and the lion is lurking quietly " 'Aurora' and hit 'Juno' is aghast within flee, 'horong' drove the attack to 'hake' lion 'Leo' is 2 and SEQ ID No. 1 to 10 days tiger 'segang' twice suffered a surprise attack. . Always 'Leo' is like the willow branches to lay down to rest on a slanted hill, tiger 'segang' attacked suddenly 'Leo' is hiding behind the willows. 'Leo' does not help that another lion exists yeoseo like 'bullying' in the lion bunch tablet keepers "If fighting a lion and a tiger is equivalent to cruelty to animals," he said. "Take a small breeder that patrol car and horse fights The rigon, "he said.
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/06/29/2008062900832.html

On the Rwn korean news report, Jeong jangjo stated:


"If the lion attacks accumulate valiant tiger's even prepared to retreat "

Everland korea: Scene

1. Lioness dominates two white tigers
2. Male lion dominated two tigers
3. 10 tigers relseased, biggest male trys to pick on lioness only to get slapped around
4. Lioness tells male what happened, male lion goes and dominated 3 tigers
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzY3MzAzMjEy.html

More on everland:

5 lions mauling a tiger


Tigers are afraid of male lions at everland


And are often injured in fights with lions even 1 on 1


Tigers are dominated around the clock at everland even at feeding time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjjHffy-Nds


(Korea)

A lion and tiger dance together until the lion finally preys on the tiger
http://www.google.com/search?q=A+lion+and+tiger+dance+together+until+the+lion+finally+preys+on+the+tiger+site%3Awww.tourandong.com&lr=&cr=countryKR&hl=en&as_qdr=all&ie=UTF-8&tbs=ctr%3AcountryKR&prmd=ivns&ei=RJFaVL3KOoezogT434LwCQ&sa=N

Its common in china to say the lion defeats the tiger:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_alFAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA39&dq=After+a+soul-stirring+contest,+the+lion+eventually+defeated+the+tiger

My mother taught me the elephant will defeat the lion, the lion defeat the tiger . . . the cat defeat the mouse, the rat.
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=AT&p_theme=at&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EADA32AE924DB1B&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

(China)
Guo Pu or Kwoh P'oh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guo_Pu

Also, in the Western Jin, the annotation by Guo Pu to Erya indicates that "suanni" is actually another word for a lion that made its way into China from western regions.

http://theme.npm.edu.tw/exh102/oversized10201/en/ch01.html


Lion and prostrate Tiger


A lion to be presented by the barbarian King of Po-ssu was captured and retained by the rebel Mo-ch’I Ch’ou-nu while on its way to the capital. Toward the end of Yung-an (A.D 530), with the downfall of [Mo-ch’I] Ch’oi-nu,, [the lion] finally reached the capital. Emperor chuang said to Li Yu, the Chief Palace attendent, We have heard that when a tiger sees a lion, it will always lay prostrate. Lets get a tiger and try to find out wheather this is true.
http://books.google.com/books?id=lOj_AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA152&dq=prostrate+tiger+lion&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uohxVPKbCJSyoQTwt4LwBg&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAw


Lets see what the synonyms of Prostrate are:
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/prostrate

So:

-Beaten
-Paralayzed
-Defensless
-Weak
-Overwhelmed
-Over Powered
-Exhausted
-Immobilized
-Knocked over

Tibet:

http://www.tibetarchaeology.com/march-2011/


A young lion comes from tibet and it is said to eat tigers
http://books.google.com/books?id=f6VBAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA244&dq=shi+lion+tiger+china+thunder&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vhlHVKeMFtCyyASnnoDwAw&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAg


(Suanni) Lion

On the ancient Chinese dictionary, Erhya (é¢âÎ ûr y®£), there is an ancient and probably indigenous Chinese term for the lion. This term is Suanni (“©‡« suÇn ní), described as a light-colored tiger (or feline) which eats other tigers and leopards and identified by the earliest commentators with the Han lion, Shizi. It
http://www.cozychinese.com/lion-shi/



It shows that during the fighting between a lion and a tiger, the tiger is killed and eaten by the lion.
http://maskdance.com/japanese/sub3/sub1.asp?bseq=7&cat=-1&sk=&sv=&page=1&mode=view&aseq=7



The lion dance depicts a lion winning a fight with a tiger and eventually eating it.
http://www.google.com/search?q=The+lion+dance+depicts+a+lion+winning+a+fight+with+a+tiger+and+eventually+eating+it.&lr=&cr=countryKR&hl=en&as_qdr=all&ie=UTF-8&tbs=ctr%3AcountryKR&prmd=ivns&ei=x4xZVMeZJ-n1igLSpIDoCA&sa=N&btnG=Search


(Indonisian)

Lioness subduing a tiger:


(China)
Monk Huilin said: "Suan Ni is the Lion, the Western
Regions."


2. The sixth is the Suan Ni, is a beast can be eating tigers and leopards.
http://danci.911cha.com/%E7%8B%BB%E7%8C%8A.html




Lion is as said the king of all animals and so it is laid at the first place. There was no lion but tiger in China. But when the lion was introduced into China it was ranked at the first place. During the Southern Dynasties...
http://books.google.com/books?id=...IigLP34DwBA&ved=0CA4Q6AEwBDgK

(15th century Puntsaou)

The Lion, designated by a character which implies, that it is the chief among carnivorous animals... It preys upon the tiger, the leopard, and the yu, another species of the feline race...naturalists, quoted in the Punt-saou, assert, he is the prince, that is, second to the king among the beasts of the field.
http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA453&dq=china+the+tiger+is+afraid+of+the+lion&ei=RtxzVNaGL8WxogSWx4DIBw&id=KrwRAAAAYAAJ&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html




The lion is known as the king of animals. The first lion was presented to China during the EasternHan Dynasty...
http://www1.chinaculture.org/library/2008-01/22/content_77553.htm

The lion stone animal was then popularly used even to put in front of imperial tombs. The second animal is Xiezhi, which is as said very clever and able to tell the good from the bad. And so the lion and Xiezhi are used to watch over the tomb. Those placed at the 3rd and the 4th are the camel and elephant. They are all very large animals of amiable temperament.
http://www.tourbamboo.com/nanjing/ming-xiaoling-tomb.html



http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://shizhu2009.blog.163.com/blog/static/1166077120078794553480&prev=search


http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.gudianxue.org/index.php%3Ftitle%3D%25E7%258B%25BB&prev=search


the lion is held higher then the tiger
http://www.epochtimes.com/b5/9/9/6/dailypost.htm


(Surpassing the tigers fighting abilities)


An eunuch possesed a black donkey which he presented to the Emperor ; it was able to travel three hundred and more miles a day, and to fight tigers. His Majesty ordered its courage and strength to be tested. A single kick killed the tiger that was set against him; and by three kicks he killed another, when a lion was mercilessly at once pitted against the brave conqueror, whose spine was broken by the lion.
http://books.google.com/books?id=7TwDAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA131&dq=china+black+donkey+kick+tiger+lion&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_FJCVNDQPKL1iQKZoIHwBA&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA


(A lion standing over a prostrated tiger)


~Dou shou qi Jungle traditional chinese animal fighting game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_(board_game)

And the cover of the stradigie board game it has the lion as the King:



The Ranking of the Traditional Chinese game:

8     Elephant     
7     Lion     
6     Tiger      
5     Leopard     
4     Wolf      
3     Dog
2     Cat   
1     Rat

The lion is held higher then the tiger in chinese culture:
http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/iccf9/tour/travel/Beijing.html


The Forbidden City is divided into an outer and an inner court. We are now standing on the southernmost part of the outer court. In front of us lies the Gate of Supreme Harmony. The gate is guarded by a pair of bronze lions, symbolizing imperial power and dignity. The lions were the most exquisite and the biggest of its kind.…

According to the ancient record the lion was also called Suanni. The historical books Hou Han Shu (History of the Late Han Dynasty) and Dong Guan Han Ji have it that by the reign of emperors Zhang and Shun of the Eastern Han Dynasty (25 - 220 A.D.) lions were brought in by envoys from the States of Anxi and Shule. Yu Shinan, a famous calligrapher of the Tang Dynasty described the animal in his Ode to the Lions:"Its eyesight is like a shaft of lightning and its roaring, a peal of thunder." And in this way the nimble but ferocious beast was vividly brought forth in his writing. In ancient China, lions were used to guard tombs, carved in grottoes and made onto articles for daily use. For example, you can find stone lions of the Han and Tang dynasties, the pieces of brocade with lion patterns discovered on the Silk Road, the lion as a ride for Bodhisattva Manjusri in the Stone Cave Temple, the bronze mirror with lion patterns of the Tang Dynasty, seal with a lion - shaped knob of the Northern and Southern dynasties as well as porcelain pillows and toys...

The lion, an animal from an exotic land, was the king of all beasts, able to safe-guard hills and mountains. Suanni, a legendary and ferocious beast, able to devour tigers and leopards, signified that all mountains around were under unified governance and all beasts at his command.
http://www.conference.ac.cn/BeijingGuide/ForbiddenCity.htm

Some porcelien antiques similar to those events:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-_WXU2RrzRKfjbJ56cLKw8R5emK0P9Y7OQQsWiyz1sXgIIkb0PhviS9A

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTo2BifCe0y_kguvJNUSHIDstOTlfrcTqBq8Z3nBvNwy4h4HlzRMaDEde4

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZWWOjdjRmib06kg_rFhwQNQOneU6Pwq1R4xoao2IDD8eI8zSaNH5QXoo

Emperor wu started breeding lions
http://english.cri.cn/7146/2014/08/22/2921s841409_2.htm

Terrace and stone sculptures at Songling, tombs of the Song Dynasty in Gongyi City, Henan

Surrounding the tomb terrace were four walls; inside the wall corners were four watchtowers... were pairs of stone lions.
http://www.china.org.cn/features/atam/2005-01/07/content_1115232.htm


Almost every country uses certain animals to symbolize one thing or another. Americans, for instance, use the eagle to symbolize freedom and strength.In China, several animals have been given symbolic meaning. The mythical dragon was used by emperors to represent their supreme authouity, the crane stands for longevity, mandarin ducks for love and loyalty, and the crow for bad luck. What does the lionstand for, though?

In China, the lion is regarded as the king of the forests and of the other animals. It has thus long been used as a symbol of power and grandeur. It is even believed to offer protection from evil spinits. That’s why imposing statues of lions were placed at the gates of imperial palaces, official residences, temples and tombs. In cense burners and imperial seals were also often decorated with carved lions.

Indeed, like images of the dragon, carved lions can be seen almost everywhere in China.




awesome beast was held — with its glaring eyes and thunderous voice, its power sufficient to drag away a tiger,
http://www.google.com/search?q=lion+awesome+beast+was+held+%97+with+its+glaring+eyes+and+thunder-+Deta+ous+voice%2C+its+power+sufficient+to+drag+away+a+tiger%2C+&tbm=bks&tbo=1



Suan Ni: it is a beast that can eat tigers and leopards.
http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/327300011.html


The lion known as suan ni, sometimes as suan fawn ate tigers and leopards
http://en.b2b168.com/s168-25600204.html                                                                         
                                                      

Edited by Prime - 28-Nov-2014 at 14:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2014 at 00:10
Dam, thats another reason why I edited out, I couldnt fit them all in one post, thats about half of whats on asia, I wanted to fit it in one post...oh wells.

Obviously theres a huge favortisim for tigers over lions due to misinformation, lies, fraudulent claims and propaganda, one thats stands out is the notion that tigers drove lions out of india, this is probably the most absurd, ridiculous straight up stupids't opinion around. An its actually on reputable peoples comments, 20 books stated the tiger is the bigger, faster, stronger, more cunning, more furocious, more lethal, better hunter, better fighter ect, an thats why the tiger suceeded in driving out the lion...Ha hah ah ah ha, there is so much fail in that broken logic, even a 6th grader can have Ph.D level knwoledge and should start to write books on these animals, since even a 6th grader would know a pack animal that can be as great as 30, will have the chance in its full potential to win against a solitary animal who on rare occaisons groups up to 3 - 4, other wise 1...would lose 100% of the altercations, 100 per----cent!


1.) How can a tiger have droven out thousands of lions who are always in groups, when he cant even fully be able to do that to 80 lb she-leopards:

He was a big wild tiger, just from Bengal, where he had been trapped. He did not like things as ' they were in the cage. He would ; show his temper at me, though he | did not try to jump on me. He did not like the other animals. He caused me much trouble because he was always trying- to fight. He attacked Puss in Berlin at the Busch circus. it was in the ring, where all could; see. "Puss was' watching him. As he jumped upon her she jumped aside, Then she sprang. Her teeth were in ; his throat, and as he rose on his; hind leg-s she dug- her claws into his '· chest and clung- like a bulldog. We used the bars again, but she paid no attention to them. She would not let go. She hung- on with teeth and claws until the. tieer gurgled and fell over, dead.
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/45908255/">http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:bixFWJZI3ugJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/7452193/+Berlin+at+the+Busch+circus++leopard+tiger+boger&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1

2.) Size, strength and power seems to be a non-factor agianst the lion, since no matter how much heavier the tiger is, his throat is still vastly more vulnerable than the lions:
The lions named King is the one who killed a thousand pound tiger, you can read the text in the OCR:

1000-Pound Circus Tiger Loses Fight With Lion NEW BEDFORD, Mass., June 2 (/F>—The lion is still king. When the Biller Brothers circus moved on to its next stop today it left behind the remains of a 1000- pound tiger. The tiger was killed last night in a savage battle with a lion.
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/45908255/

Heres an article of Ki-gor explaining the tiger that was killed was 250 lbs heavier than King:

He actually started teaching and breaking and training the cats when he was 16 years of TJit afl-rlctortoui Son, "Kind" to only four years old, and the late tiger was eight years of age and about 250 pounds heavier. Ki-Gor Hid that the fight created quite a stir among the other five lions, "but they handled the roles of spectators well, as lions usually do when one of their own is involved in combat, and with the exception of 'Zimba,' who moved only to come to my aid,
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OZPltWgoAg4J:www.newspapers.com/newspage/45312071/&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1

3.) How can the tiger drive out a 400 lb pack animal such as the lion, when the tiger cant even drive out a 40 lb pack animal such as the wild dog, as I showed on the bottom of the last page, think thats all there is? Theres tons more of this animal whos basically 7 x less the weight of the lion, driving out, subduing, treeing and even killing tigers:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/137380039?searchTerm=wild%20dog%20tiger%20chase%20kill%20india&searchLimits=

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/141813924?searchTerm=dhole%20dog%20%20tiger%20%20india&searchLimits=

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/124024001?searchTerm=dhole%20dog%20%20tiger%20%20india&searchLimits=

http://newspaperarchive.com/us/pennsylvania/new-castle/new-castle-news/1921/02-09/page-17

http://newspaperarchive.com/us/wisconsin/grand-rapids/wisconsin-valley-leader/1904/10-20/page-7

http://newspaperarchive.com/uk/middlesex/london/london-monitor-and-new-era/1907/02-22/page-10

http://newspaperarchive.com/us/pennsylvania/huntingdon/huntingdon-journal/1877/03-23/

http://newspaperarchive.com/us/pennsylvania/huntingdon/huntingdon-journal/1877/03-23/

4.) How can the male tiger as to them is the most perfect killing machine on earth be as formidable as they portray, when he loses to his smaller, less strong, less powerful gender via the female:

Shenzhen Safari Park happened the day before yesterday afternoon, "murder" in the region beast Valley dissipate into the atmosphere more than just being playful slapstick Bengal tiger, which one male and one female Bengal tiger self-fulfilling prophecy when playing, to become a real fight, Breeder summoned for vixen veterinary first aid, but because the wound is too deep, where he died.
Guangdong "Yangcheng Evening News"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEArFUqhoc8


What are they basing it off of? Where are the cites of single tigers just killing one lion at a time in india of its wilderness before jumping to conclusions that a lone tiger can kill thousands of group effort based lions, a tiger wouldnt even be able to kill juvinile multiple foes at once, even a single juvi is lethal and could lead to the tiger being injured and starving to death. The record shows atleast 20 female leopards, female bears, female tigers and female lionesses have already killed male bengal tigers...how could the male lion who has never been before killed by a female anything in terms mammalia carnivorians be now no match for the male tiger of bengal, the male tiger has the worst track record of any apex predator alive, a prime male lion never retreats from hyena, he drives off 30 at a time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BlhBCRubJg

The tiger cant do that, not even to d'holes who are twice as small as a hyena.

Why would they ignore that the lion lives in groups, this is why he disappeared from india of the british war, because for every one tiger killed, you can kill the entire pride of 20 at the same instance, why did they ignore that the tiger lives in dense areas, where he is un-seen, making it harder for hunters to shoot him, while the lion lives in the open, a hunter can spot a lion from several miles out, why ignore that the tiger unless calling for their mates utters no sound? While the lion roars and radiates thunderous calls for locating pride members, roars to pro-claim areas, roars to challange rivals, roars even to alert his advesary or hunted target before attacking making the lion more easy to hunt, all the records state the lion was more hunted because of those facts, and that to the british he was the ultimate prize, the tiger to them is a cowardly beast, they only prize the bravest of braves, which happened to be the lion.


Its obvious, its bias, being subjective and intrancing people on their own views of favortisim, acting like every tiger there would be a 857 lb tiger...even if a tiger of that status ran into the lions of india, he would still lose...since the lions fight as a single impenetrable unit, not even 3 polar bears can beat the King of beast when unification is amongs the steaks:


Honestly the people who wrote that comments are beyound stupid if they wanted to challange science, as they're living in a dream land, for them to have stated that, shows their ulterior motives...again thats beyound stupid... no logical scenario can become of that notion, even the ngdong tiger, or leo atrox, saber tooth cat, the short faced bear, wondering alone against a pride of lions would lose 10/10, use common sense, logic and apply basic 6th grade math, and you would know theres only one out come to this scenario in a fight to death:


A dead tiger.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2014 at 16:02
I still yet to see how any scientist, Biologist, Ecologist, Theologist, Historian, Zoologist, or any walk of science can get pass this:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/139517086?searchTerm=clyde%20beatty%2050%20tigers%20killed&searchLimits=

They would need a crap lode of refferences, retorts such as wild/adults/healthy individuals are out of the question, as Beatty stated he uses only jungle bred big cats, keeps them healthy and uses only prime of life lions/tigers, the only excuse is that its not in the wild-derness...lol Which is again not all that suttle of a place for an out-come, since the tiger is apt to run, theres a 90% chance the tiger wont see the entire fight through as he has no motives once slightly injured he wiill flee since no one will hunt and nurse him back to health, the lion has a motive and a safety net, his motive is to protect his cubs, and if he is injured, his females and brothers will nurse him back to health, so the cage matches were probably the ultimate verdict in seeing who would win a fight to the death.

50+ in fact since beatty lost 3 more tigers after that statement. Basically covering all scenarios, what would happen if a lion had the numbers (the lions won) what would happen if the tigers ganed up on a male lion (the lion won), what would happen if it was male vs female (the lion won), what would happen if it was one on one male vs male (the lion won).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2014 at 15:54
Tiger & Lion issue has limitless source Big smile

Male Centaur is attacking big cats
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mythology/Images/CentaurHadrian.jpg

but I guess just in India and China, tigers get more importance then lions

I don't know any mesopotamian creater who has tiger head or tiger sphinx
http://www.arthistory.upenn.edu/spr03/422/April10/303.JPGhttp://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000Qpkkgk.shnA/s/650/650/PWP88400-45-Hittite-Lion-Releif.jpg

but there are some figures like in India

Hindu goddess Durga
 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Durga_Mahisasuramardini.JPGhttp://pudurdravida.com/Durga%20J.jpg

Baccus
http://medias.photodeck.com/1ac7f9a2-1c06-11e0-b84c-df88e916ece2/TU-EJ-mosaic-005_large.jpghttp://www.theoi.com/image/Z12.20Dionysos.jpg

and also I am thinking that how rare winged-tiger image in art history. It is not as mush as winged-lion
http://pages.pomona.edu/~sg064747/travel/images/Turkey/MosaicMuseum/1600-MosaicMuseumChimera.jpg


and bonus: Liger or Tion LOL

http://www.theoi.com/image/Z31.9Eros.jpg








Edited by Ollios - 06-Dec-2014 at 15:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2014 at 18:05
Yup, there should be more individual status of tigers in china, afterall the tiger is native there for thousands of years, but thats only on a lone stand point, if both are compared directly, then the lion seems to out-strip the tiger in every quality of healdry and religous/spiritual aspect. The lions guard almost every royal family tombs and graves in china ever since the first lions were ever exported there 2,000+ years ago...they take the inner qualitys of these animals and apply them in factual terms. The lion is a protector, he guards the females, and safe-guards the cubs, he even protects living things of his likening or if he feels another being is over powering a inferior one, he dominates em. The tiger is by nature, cruel, un-forgiving, blood thirsty and prys on the weak, he almost will never fight some thing as strong or stronger then him, if he does its always by means of ambush, catching them un-aware, from the back.

This goes for every major country in the world who has had both, when both are studied together the lion is unanimously the superior. Bigger in size, taller, is heavier on average, has a defineing strut that adds to his magniminity, is more bold, courages, brave and fearless in times of war, more human like of forgiving, honest and understanding.

Look at the big cage fight video, all three tigers were killed, the 3rd tiger had no where to escape, yet through out the fight he was still running, where was he to go? He knew he was confined and couldnt get out, yet still was running majority of the time, this speaks of his cowardice compared to the lion who is as most know...lion-hearted. The lion seems to be vastly superior in strike strength, and the flip side is he can also take a punch too via mane, the tiger cannot strike nearly as hard and he cannot take hits well, in any form, via he is highly vulnerable to lacerations to the neck, shoulders, chest and belly, he seems to aquit the fight when he recived to much punishment giving up almost entirely and looking for a way out, he cant handle hard hits as well mentally and phyiscally. Thats because the tiger has a limit, once too much punishment is taken he is apt to run, he doesnt have any motive or reason to die for and would rather not risk it to live another day...the lion seems to be all in to make a point, that his fighting spirit is immovable and un-movable to a higher degree, this is consitent through out their entire lives.

The tiger was not born to be a ruler like the lion is, their ruling of how much land they both covered is the proof of it, larger bears other lions and wild dogs rules over him.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2014 at 10:36
Does anyone know of a website that keeps track of big cat sightings in the US? I was coming home 2 nites back.  I have seen big cats in the wild, [Fla Panther, Cougar etc.] I'm as certain as I can be that I saw a cougar cross the road in front of me.
This wouldn't be unusual in some parts, however 30 miles from Philly makes it unusual.

I realize this is off topic, if there is anything that seems to verify my sighting, I'll open a thread.

 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2014 at 20:59
BIOLOGY











It seems the lot of of natrual history books from 19th century and below, repeat the same things, that the tiger is longer, bigger, heavier...these same people do not factor in the lion being taller, and having a mane that increases his size 2 folds in the front quarters and some times the belly, the consistentcy is quite ignorant, as for most books do not quote any leading authoritys, and are encyclopedic...that would mean majority of these people havent held in their arms or even have seen a tiger in real life. So to embed the entire statistics in the average persons mind, this example can be used to expose the notions tigers are bigger:

If you have never seen these animals and read books with little detail of describing these two, an explainition would have the croc longer than the giraffe:
http://cnninewsstream.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/crocodile_length-23.jpg

Thats basically all these books try to deceive people in saying the tiger is bigger than the lion, but with what we see with our own two eyes, we will see this:


A crocodile is longer, a giraffe is taller...which though would you say is bigger in size visually if you only took one look? Of course at first look you would say the giraffe...the same as all size comparisons will have the lion bigger as tigers are only longer, but with further science extensions of biology, we are understanding that in the mass department tigers are not as heavy as most previous sources have stated, not even half the weight where books quote 850+ lb tigers as the normal, some tigers even being the length on published natrual books of 18 feet long, this is literally twice the length of the largest sub-species average...no dought false. There is no denying the fact of modern photo evidence, a lion already is the taller and heavier on average, but what extends his reputation is his one of a kind evolutionary adaptation as a buffer, which increases his size 2-3 folds...his mane:

Examples:








Science, is the fastest growing factual implimentation, because it constantly tests things, ever seeking the most hardest and accurate of facts, most claim the bengal tiger is on average heavier than the african lion, but with what consenses? Surely no site of the hundreds making these claims are sharing the whole truth, with tigers in the sundarbans making the largest population of bengal tigers:

The Sundarbans is home to over 500 Bengal tigers, one of the largest single
populations of tigers in one area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_attacks_in_the_Sundarbans

With new science evidence sundarban tigers average near 78 kg:
http://archive.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=156957

This would mean, the largest population of tigers are roughly the size of a large leopard, or small jaguar, not nearly the weight and size of a asiatic lion, and no where near the weight of the african lion, who even sub-adult males can pull in well over 220 kg:

http://www.africadreamsafaris.com/blog/?p=18361

Thats nearly triple the weight of bengals from the sundarbans, if you add in all bengal tiger populations from Nepal, Chitwan, kaziranga ect with the sundarban weights included, you still dont have a cat thats heavier than 150 kg. Bengals in verse make up as one of the smallest sub-species on average. The only way a tiger therefore can be heavier than the average lion, is if you cherry pick individual tigers, cherry picking is not what science is about.

The lion is also the tallest big cat species
http://www.desertusa.com/animals/lion.html

The African lion is much more dreaded and displays greater cunning than its ally. The largest of these attain a length of nine feet, exclusive of the tail. The neck of the male is protected by a thick mane, giving them a MAMMALIA.ferocious appearance.
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Elements_of_Zoology_1000005393/377

Men wear clothes made of sheep's wool; none of us has ever seen a square inch of cloth woven from lions' manes, and yet it is obvious that a lion's mane is both longer and stronger than wool.
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/The_North_American_Review_1000146601/229

Thus the splendid mane of the lion appears to be chiefly useful in partially shielding his neck and shoulders from the teeth and claiws of rivals. in a different manner.
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Current_Literature_1000056442/297


BIO-OSTEOLOGY

Tiger fans always posting the lowest feats of the lion and hiding the truth, look what Pckts shows:



And heres what real Biologist from real universitys and wild life back grounds have to say...


Melissa Haynes:


1,000 psi
https://books.google.com/books?id=fBHmJZ-E6DoC&pg=PA57&dq=.+Now+a+lion's+strength+lies+in+his&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4D2TVPvGF5DsoATW1IHIBQ&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA

A lions bite is even stronger
https://books.google.com/books?id=v92FTWrCTvwC&pg=PT18&dq=the+lion+has+the+strongest+bite+force&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hJKUVLvZB9jUoAT3uYG4Ag&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAg

Stephen wroe:

http://une-au.academia.edu/StephenWroe

5,600 N
https://books.google.com/books?id=U_dHAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA188&dq=the+lion+has+the+strongest+bite+force&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hJKUVLvZB9jUoAT3uYG4Ag&ved=0CBYQ6AEwCA

Juliet Eilperin:


560 kg Psi
https://books.google.com/books?id=b3TWZWbxiMwC&pg=PA145&dq=african+lion+bite+force+pressure&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KdmUVNKSPNTmoATT3oBw&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA

Dr. Geerat J. Vermeij. Biology:


4168 N
https://books.google.com/books?id=7o6pq4VR26YC&pg=PA248&dq=geerat+lion+bite+alligator&hl=en&sa=X&ei=A5yUVNGMGNDooATj6oGYBw&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAQ

Dr. Brady Barr:


2 year old lion cub 691 psi:
http://dogbitesinformationandstatistics.blogspot.com/2008/01/canine-bite-force.html

Dr. Karl kruszelnicki:


560 kg = 1244 Psi
https://books.google.com/books?id=lKU4UjaCS44C&pg=PT35&dq=lion+bite+force&hl=en&sa=X&ei=J7OUVNq4Go36oQSZ4YDwCA&ved=0CBYQ6AEwCA


Biologist Vermeij: 4,168 N = 937 Psi
Biologist Wroe: 5,600 N = 1258 Psi
Biologist Eilperin: 560 kg = 5533 N
Biologist Barr: 2 year old lion 691 Psi = 3073.N
Biologist Haynes: 1,000 Psi = 4448 N
Biologist kruszelnicki: 560 kg = 1244 psi = 5533 N

If you do not know how to convert Psi into newtons or vice versa, you can type in numbers here and it will automatically convert it for you:
http://www.convertunits.com/from/newtons/to/pounds?unit1=1%2C000&unit2=




And just because the tigers fangs are longer doesn’t mean it bites harder, smilodons fangs were double the size of tigers, and still smilodon bit 33% weaker than a lion:
https://books.google.com/books?id=HPw0C2i8QXkC&pg=PA472&dq=lion+bite+force&hl=en&sa=X&ei=J7OUVNq4Go36oQSZ4YDwCA&ved=0CA4Q6AEwBA

low as 1/3rd that of a lion:
https://books.google.com/books?id=5hS-vzTHU5oC&pg=PA149&dq=lion+bite+force&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ELaUVL-mCpGqoQTy4oG4DA&ved=0CAgQ6AEwATgK


So that busts the myth that the tigers longer fangs are better crushing devices. I think they mean the hyena pound for pound has a harder bite compared to a lion not overall, since one of the sources says the lion pound for pound has twice the biting strength of a great white, but because the great white can reach much larger weights, it yields a greater bite force. I bet the average bite force for a adult male lion (including all sub-species) is around a solid 1,000 Psi, maybe the asiatic lion bit just under the african lion and maybe the barbary lion had a more powerful bite than your standard lion, and I bet the average bite force of a adult male tiger (including all sub-species) is around 400 Psi, since bali tigers, javan, malay, and sumatrans have skulls that are probably no bigger than a jaguars and probably the bengals from the sundarbans have the same size and weight skulls of a leopards.

One thing is for sure, the asiatic lion had a much bigger skull than the bengal in the past:



SKULL SIZE COMPAISON

Russian Biologist Vladimir Georgievich Heptner:


At the same time the largest skulls of lion are only slightly bigger than the largest skulls of tiger.
https://books.google.com/books?id=UxWZ-OmTqVoC&pg=PA106&dq=the+lion+has+bigger+skull+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TuCVVLSsEMzSoASU2oD4Dw&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAQ

Tiger No. 2 were exactly the same length of carcase, but the skull of the lion is the bigger.
https://books.google.com/books?id=Yk0YAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA477&dq=the+lion+has+bigger+skull+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TuCVVLSsEMzSoASU2oD4Dw&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAw

Alfred Pease:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Alfred_Pease,_2nd_Baronet

The lion's skull is on the average longer than the tiger's, but the skulls in average -breadth are about equal.
https://books.google.com/books?id=BOkaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA101&dq=the+lion+compared+skull+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lOGVVJXOIpeIoQTT14CoDQ&ved=0CBAQ6AEwBQ

Head of the smithsonian Biologist John seidensticker:


it has been suggested that the tiger may have a proportionally smaller head than the lion.
https://books.google.com/books?id=XFIbjBEQolMC&pg=PA54&dq=lion+bigger+head+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qQCWVL3fDcbxoATVx4GwBg&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAg


The tigers fangs cant take as much pressure as the lions:


The tigers fangs being longer makes it weaker breaking easier under more pressure, the tigers fangs are almost 1,000 newtons weaker than a lions fangs. You can test this theory as well, break a pencil in half 3x over, the smaller peices will then be harder to break then the longer ones...this is not only scientifically proven by hypothesis and test, but it already happened, when the lions fangs collided with tigers, the tigers fang is the one that broke:

Tower of london Captive raised asiatic bengal lion named George fights two freshly wild bengal tigers:

But as soon as they were separated, the lion and tiger again united in conflict, and seizing each other, the one by the upper, and the other by the under jaw, they tore one another with a more deadly and terrible fury than before. The red hot bars were again applied to their nostrils, but so keen were they in the contest, that it was with much difficulty they were again separated. The lion was then forced to his den by following him with the hot iron, when the doors were immediately shut upon him. The lion had the worst of it; but this is not to be wondered at, as he had two animals to contend with, which had been little more than twelve months from their native forests. The tiger, however, lost one of his canine teeth in the last bout. This terrible battle lasted upwards of half an hour.
http://books.google.com/books?id=5AssXdZVr4kC&pg=PA293&dq=fight+in+the+tower+lion+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zEgTUeXOAaf8iQKSioHoAg&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA


ARTIFACTS:


FRANCE:



JAPAN:



BELGIUM:



DEATH ACCOUNTS:


CAPTIVITY






WILD

An account which took place at india in Surat:


The fauna there includes a few tigers:
https://books.google.com/books?id=635DAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA153&dq=surat+india+tigers&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jFyXVOSwDInUoAS60IGYAw&ved=0CA4Q6AEwBA


One of the biggest tigers recorded came from surat:
https://books.google.com/books?id=I7QrAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA299&dq=surat+india+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xl-XVID_FoKvoQSgkoHABQ&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAzgK




JUNGLES OF INDIA THRILLING SCENE

Our destination was the province called Guzerat, which is a large peninsula northwest of Bombay. We could have proceeded thither in a short time by sea, but Mr. Barrill took the circuitous land route, in order to see the country. At the end of the first day's journey we en camped at the base of a range of mountains " the height of which I supposed was fifteen hundred feet. These mountains extend entirely through western India. In the vicinity of our encampment, they were steep and stony. On aU sides were forests of bamboo, presenting a straighter and more regular aspet, than any woodland I had ever HINDOO HABITS….

At Domus, Mr. Barrill disposed of his tusks to a Parsee merchant, for about one-half the price he could have obtained if he had conveyed them to Surat. But he was glad to ged rid of the burden. Domus -n-as a small town. The inhabitants were courteous enough, but we understood that some of them were strongly suspected of being engaged in piracy. Our servants informed us that the Parsees were very numerous in the country northward, and their enterprise was the chief source of its prosperity. At noon the second day after our arrival at Domus, we came within sight of the celebrated city of Surat. Its towers and pagodas gave it an imposing appearance… but as we approached the walls age and decay were strikingly evident. This city is situated on the Taptee, about tvrenty miles from the point where the mouth, or bay, empties into the gulf of Cambay. It is about six miles in circumference, and shaped like a bow, the cord being the Taptee, having near its centre, a small castle garrisoned by a few sepoys and Europeans. On ofner sides, the town is surrounded by a wall, flanked with semicircular towers. Without the walls we found some good European houses, formerly occupied by the French, but now, the residence of English officers; but the houses within the town were very inferior, consisting only of timber frames filled up with bricks, their upper stories projecting over each other. The streets were narrow and irregular. Only small boats, called ketches, can ascend the river to Surat " yet the city once had a very extensive* commerce.

We remained three days in Surat. During this period, Mr. Barrill made some valuable acquaintance among the English, and purchased some small articles which he deemed necessary for our comfort. We found that nearly all the business of the city was carried on by the Parsees " the Hindoos being generally as indolent as they were superstitious…

The jungle was beautiful and luxuriant " the dark green foliage of the bamboo contrasting finely with the lighter verdure of the palm and the blossoms of numerous other trees for which I had no name. The encounter of the day before had left an impression not easily effaced, and we took care to avoid, as far as we could, consistently with our designs upon the game, the thickest jungle, where it was difficult to see beyond a few yards on each side. The Hindoos were all eye as they marched, and I thought, that each moment, one of them shuddered as if he expected the terrible tiger to spring from the bushes and dash him to the ground. We had proceeded about six or seven niiles, without meeting with any animals, deemed worthy of our rifles, and were growing more confident in our march. ^Lr. Barrill and I had fallen into conversation about the contrast between the forests of India and South Africa, when a tremendous roar, and the shrieks of the Hindoos, rang fearfully in our ears, and brought our shuddering horses to a halt. The case flashed on our eyes we turned. The Parsees stood as if paralyzed " the Hindoos shrieked and danced, and seemed senseless with fright. Hurrying away through the jungle we could occasionally catch a glimpse of the striped hack of a tiger ' and a faint shriek told us what he had dared to seize foi his meal. Humanity and our own burning thirst for distinction in this region, new to us, banished all feelings uf dread, and we started away, with ready rifles in pursuit, the rest of the party following, not knowing what else to do for safety. The tiger had disappeared beneath the thick foliage of the bushes, and the cessation of the victim's shrieks left us no clue to the ferocious animal's whereabouts.


When suddenly, within about fifty yards, sounded the tremendous voice of a lion " a sound we could never forget; and a succession of awful growls, snaps, and loud rustics among the bushes, led us to believe that the two tyrants of the forests were contending for the mastery. Anxious to gain a view of such a fearful struggle, we pressed forward^ till emerging from a clump of bushes, we beheld almost at our horse's feet, the lion and tiger rolling over and over, in a conflict which only death could interrupt. The mangled Hindoo was lying senseless upon his face, within a few yards of the ferocious combatants. We did not fire, but reserved our bullets till the conflict should destroy one of the beasts.

It was a horrible struggle. The tiger was quite as large as the lion, and much quicker in his movements. But the lion showed a decided superiority of strength, and his great mane effectually covered his head. Still his hack and sides were torn hy the tiger's claws, and for some minutes the contest was doubtful. Both possessed equal courage and determination, and no disposition was evinced to have a drawn battle. It was one of the compensations of nature. The tyrants of the woods, who had so long preyed upon the weaker animals, were now paying each other in due form. Draw near, ye ghosts of mangled cattle, stags and lesser beasts, to gloat over your revenge! Our prescence seemed a matter of indifference to the combatants, so intent were they in that struggle of strength and activity. But the endurance of the lion prevailed " seizing the tiger by the throat, he turned it on its back, and with his strong claws tore open its belly, and, thus put an end to its ferocious life. Hail, king of beasts, for so thou art I This had scarcely been achieved when simultaneotis balls from our rifles, stretched the lion beside the foe whom he had vanquished, and their blood mingled among the grass….

We immediately dismounted, hastened to the wounded Hindoo, while his companions busied themselves in striking their spears into the helpless tiger " and patting the head of the lion. Raising the poor fellow, we found that he was so dreadfully bitten and torn about the throat and breast, that his chance of living was but small. He could not speak. After a short time spent in reeking their cowardly vengeance on the tiger, his Hindoo companions said that they had quite enough of hunting tigers on foot, and that they would take the wounded man back to Elaw as quickly as possible. Mr. Barrill agreed with them that it was the best course they could pursue, and gave them the skin of the tiger to take with them as a kind compensation for their fright. They constructed a rude litter of branches, on which they laid their wounded companion " then skinned the tigers-cutting ofi" his head " while our Parsees were skinning the lion, and then bade us adieu. The lion was not as large as those we had killed in Africa " His skin was of a yellowish hue, the mane being some shades deeper. In other respects, there seemed to be no difference between the lions of Asia and Africa.

The tiger was a beautiful animal, the skin being striped as splendidly as that of the African zebra. The form resembled that of the common cat. The eyes were of a greenish grey color, having a ferocious glare " and the appearance of the teeth and claws was enough to send a thrill of terror through a person of timid nerves. The roar of this monster, which was the first intelligence of his presence we had received, resembled that of the lion, but was not so deep and grand. When enraged as it was during the conflict with the lion, it makes a shrill cry which pierces the ear in a most disagreeable way.


http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Perils_and_Pleasures_of_a_Hunters_Life_1000110811/209

http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Perils_and_Pleasures_of_a_Hunters_Life_1000110811/211

It states non-fiction:
http://www.readanybook.com/author/peregrine-herne-10860

It states it’s a autobiography:
http://www.gregorrarebooks.com/cgi-bin/gregor/19933.html?id=DHdpg6en

Here is Herne being noted as one of the first hunters of his era:
http://www.shakariconnection.com/early-african-hunter-books.html


What have we learned?

-The tiger is longer, while the lion is taller.
-On average the lion is heavier.
-No bear or tiger will look larger than a lion with a large mane in the front.
-The lion has a protecting factor that the tiger is without.
-Lions have a more stronger bite, and a larger skull.
-Both in captivity and in the wild lions have killed male bengal tigers in fair fights.
-Artifacts around the world are consistent with the accounts.


CONSENSES

I think its quite one sided with evidence that proves the lion strikes harder with his taller frame, bigger shoulders, longer and heavier front quarters and superior strikeing method involving the three point stance as a better tourqe engine into promoting more force while retaining more balance. That the lions bigger skull aids his stronger bite, his mane that offers a degree of protection, buffer, intimidator, lessens the impact force and limits the amounts of lacerations in more areas and in two very vital insta death spots, the neck and belly. The lion being the heavier on average would explain why the artifacts are consistent, since its not like every tiger to have been viewed by the world and fought a lion in front of that culture to be a 800+lb tiger, most would range from the 200-300 lb range, as back then there would have been more balinese tigers, javan, malay, sumatran ect, all who range quite small and yet with the bengals from sundarbans being even smaller...atleast 90% of tigers in general are smaller than lions...bengals and siberians being of 400 lbs are in isolated numbers and tigers that breach 600+ lbs make up of individuals less than 1% of its entire species, while on the other hand, 400 lbs is the medium across all subspecies of lions, rarely they are smaller, and there are even juviniles that can breach the 200 kg range quite common with more lions like tapris, Zenni, and safari lion reserve of late hitting the 650lb ranges . The notion that the tiger is superior overall is looking quite weak, science does not need to be subjective, does not need to cherry pick, science excepts facts for exactly what it is, science neither hides anything nor over-exaggerates things, with accounts such as this last article of Clyde beattys film the big cage, which is now confirmed as the third tiger used was killed as well, ...

wild lions killing wild tigers are already into motion, there are 4 occaisons of fights in the wild of the mid 18th century, 1 of Velar where a lion killed a tiger near the ganges river, 1 reported of the New york sun ot Ballou magazine where a lion severly wounded a wild tiger 2 times in his throat, another of an occaison where a lion was ripping a wild tigers throat while the tiger was whining only to have both been shot to death by locals of india, and the most recent find of a lion killing a tiger in india at Surat near the Tapi river. There are no known cases of a tiger killing a lion in the wild, already the accounts of conflicts were all 1 on 1 in favor of the lion, in true fashion...the lion would have the aid of his pride in majority of the cases, so I dont see how a tiger would have came off the better in the wild on average when they once heavily co-existed across of india from goona, rewa, bengal, ect.

I think alot more is to come, and it is looking bleak for tigers one on one, there are only several times a tiger has killed a lion through out all of history, most are female lions as stated per account, making less then 10 male lions accounted for killed by tigers, while Clyde beatty already has accumilated more then 10x fold of the opposite, in other words pound for pound or expert vs expert, or source vs source, no one exceeds the information Clyde beatty has given, not even combined sources favoring the tiger exceeds Clyde beatty, and Beatty is trailed by others who back the lion with experinces, excerpts of fights they witnessed and hands on with both the big cats like: (Animal trainers) Terrell jacobs, Bert nelson, Pete taylor, Dave hoover, Damoo dhotre, Marco peters, Bert Noyes, Trevor Bale, (Scientist) Frank mendel, Scott woodward, Melvin Tolson, (Zoologist) Dave salmoni, Samantha stephens, Eric kessler, Wilsey, Isabell thomas, (Animal Reserve an owners) Head of Big cat-rescue: Dr Antle Baghavan, Head of Everland koreas zoo: Jeong sangjo, Head of the Smithsonian: William H blackburne, Head keeper at Ringling bros: George Conklin (Conservationlist) Kailash sankhala of Rambanthore, Singh hari shanaka of Gujarat, Jam sahib of Nawanagar, (Historians) Ken spiro, Thomas Gray, Magret george, Santri, Martin seyers...ect ect ect...there almost all walks of science that so far favors the lion. There are a few that favor the tiger, but they lack observation on a wide an prolonged scale, it will be insteresting to see what more we will find. I'm pretty sure alot more is still out there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2015 at 19:22
While it would be extremely unusual to see a native wild cougar in the vicinity of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, it probably wouldn't be totally impossible. State and federal wildlife agencies are continually receiving reports of people in the eastern U.S. reporting seeing wild cougars. These reports are always unverifiable. If they seem valid, though, the wildlife agencies do investigate. They almost always turn out to be a bobcat sighting, or in rare cases, a tame cougar released into the wild.

However, on June 11,  2011, a young male cougar was hit and killed by an SUV in Milford,Connecticut, on the Wilbur Cross Parkway. It didn't appear to have any physical signs that would have indicated a captive origin. Wildlife biologists then examined its DNA, which confirmed that it had originated in a population of wild cougars in the Black Hills of South Dakota. Moreover, genetic-testing of the DNA showed that it was the same individual cougar whose droppings had been previously collected and analyzed in 2009 and 2010 in Minnesota and Wisconsin. The young cougar, although lean, was in good condition. It weighed 140 lbs., and was under 5 years old. It had travelled over 1,500 miles from its South Dakota origin to its unfortunate death on a Connecticut highway. I believe that that is the longest journey or migration ever recorded for any land mammal.

Before this, I think that the last verified sighting of a native wild cougar in the eastern U.S. was an Eastern cougar shot in the 1850s.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2015 at 16:49
SIZE COMPARISON




Lions are perhaps bolder than tigers, and certainly much more noisy, their habit of roaring, especially in the evening and at night, having necessarily attracted the attention of all who have been in countries infested by them. Of the two the tiger, though standing lower,
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Mammalia_1000816536/83

He has no mane, and his whole body, though not quite so tall as the lion's, is more slender and graceful. His head is also shorter and more rounded than that of the lion
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Second_Reader_1000657461/91

This Lion was 9 feet, with flowing mane, and altogether much more bulky
than any Tiger I have killed
: although many have measured upwards of 11 feet
http://www.google.com/search?q=This+Lion+was+9+feet%2C+with+njlom%27ng+mane%2C+and+altogether+much+more+bulky+&tbm=bks&tbo=1


AGGRESSIVENESS


Dr. Sunquist leading tiger expert:


In the jungle, the tigers usually avoid each other, however both male and female tigers sometimes share the kills, the tigers seem to behave relatively amicably when sharing kills, even unrelated tigers have also been observed feeding on prey together
http://books.google.com/books?id=f-FypAXZGqkC&pg=PT128&dq=tigers+avoid+each+other&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dkp-VOmXMY6-yATg74HABQ&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAw

Male lions usually avoid this excersize and are more involved in defending the territory and protecting the pride
http://books.google.com/books?id=J0rME6RjC1sC&pg=PA119&dq=hyenas+avoid+the+male+lion&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lFV-VKueKoT7yAT0oYKoBQ&ved=0CAYQ6AEwADgK

unlike lions, neighboring tigers rarely compete with one anothers carcasses
http://books.google.com/books?id=F_Wfa9BpmIYC&pg=PA131&dq=tigers+rarely+fight&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PUh-VI-aFJemyASCrYGgBg&ved=0CBgQ6AEwCQ


FIGHTING SKILLS ON ANIMALS WHO FIGHT BACK


Occasionally a fight takes place here between a tiger and a wild boar, the pig almost invariably being the victor and frequently killing the tiger. I was told, however, that in a fight between a lion and a pig, the lion would generally kill the pig.
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/India_of_To-Day_1000065395/17

to give the coup de grace and the fight would have been ended. He, however, turned away. The boar recovered, rushed at the tiger, and disembowelled him.
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Modern_Pig-Sticking_1000899599/43

We beat back again for the coverts, and once more dividing our party, we were lucky in spearing five young boars before lunch. Every one of them fought well. These boars of the Koosee Dyaras are all plucky animals. Instances have been known in which they have even proved too much for the Boyal Tiger himself. One of these encounters I myself once witnessed
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Tent_Life_in_Tigerland_1000646423/173

One of them told me that he and others had found the remains of a tiger and a boar which had evidendy fought to the death, the signs showing the tiger to have died first, the boar going away some distance before he fell to his deadly hurts. thought the tiger had attacked the ** sounder" party of pigs which the boar was with, and that he struck first in defence of his family.
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/A_Varied_Life_1000507572/269

Several instances are on record of desperate fights between a large boar and a tiger, and in not a few the tiger has been killed.
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Mammalia_1000816536/587

There are records of gaur and buffalo goring tigers and of wild boars disemboweling them with their tusks
https://books.google.com/books?id=MlMEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA62&dq=wild+boar+tiger+disemboweled&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xgWmVIWqJ4XZoATYo4A4&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA

Adult tigers are occasionally disemboweled by rogue boars
http://www.google.com/search?q=Adult+tigers+are+occasionally+disemboweled+by+rogue+boars&tbm=bks&tbo=1

a tiger was found dead cut up by a boar
https://books.google.com/books?id=_g0AAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA12&dq=wild+boar+fought++tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kwamVPCmCNjSoAT4ooHQDg&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA


ARTIFACTS


ROMAN (Reproducted in britain)



JAPAN



FRENCH




ACCOUNTS


CAPTIVITY

Marco Peters:


Before Marco had designed The Wheel of Death, he also had his share of hazardous brushes.

"I used to be a lion and tiger trainer, and the animals didn't get along," he said. "But during one performance, the animals were in heat, and the lions attacked the tigers, and some of the animals were killed."
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-08-12/entertainment/ca-18814_1_wheel


WILD

(Full version)




What have we learned?

-Only on paper the tiger is bigger via longer, but visually lions are much bigger.
-Tigers dont enjoy fighting, lions have it as their occupation.
-Hunting by ambush is different from fighting head to head, feats show lions are better fighters against wild pigs, tigers not so much.
-The artifacts are consistent with accounts.
-In the wild the tiger seems to be highly vulnerable at lions getting the throat easily as dipicted in the account.
-In captivity lions will attack and even kill tigers more then vice versa.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2015 at 18:41

It appears the tigers also lost this fight, as Whitfield says in the book, they got the worst of it, and they saved the tigers from the lions with the fire extinguisher. Very similar to what happened with Marco Peters.



Trainer Ron Whitfield was working his usual act, with the all-male tiger and lion group mounted on a pyramid. At Ron's signal Thai the tiger came down as he had done a thousand times before, but this time he sank his teeth into the leg of a lion named Notch. Notch turned around quick as lightning, knocked the tiger over, and bit into its belly. Immediately Beau, Notch's brother, leaped over to help, and suddenly every lion and tiger in the ring remembered past arguments the trainer had not let them settle With a noise like a freight- train collision, the high-fenced arena shook under the hurtling impact of fighting lions and tiger. Whole big-cat acts have died in such battles before, killing each other off and the victors then dying of the wounds.
https://www.google.com/search?q=N...+its+belly.&tbm=bks&tbo=1


Sevengill: The Shark and Me - Page 149

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0590410075
Don C. Reed - 1987 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
Trainer Ron Whitfield was working his usual act, with the all-male tiger and lion group mounted on a pyramid. ... Flora got busy with a fire hose and a carbon dioxide fire extinguisher, startling the lions and thereby saving the tigers, who had 149.


Sevengill: The Shark and Me - Page 150

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0590410075
Don C. Reed - 1987 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
guisher, startling the lions and thereby saving the tigers, who had much the worst of the fight. I sought out Ron Whitfield some time afterward. I knew he trained the modern way, avoiding the staged and destructive fights which had once been a ...



https://books.google.com/books?id=b43kvzaN1zAC&q=Ron+Whitfield+lion+fights+tigers&dq=Ron+Whitfield+lion+fights+tigers&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z_i2VNu4HeHGsQTAnIHIBg&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2015 at 02:31
Nice extension on Whitfields fight. I wonder if these are those to same lions Notch and his Brother:



EXTRACURRICULAR EXPERTS


Niel Mcdonald Grandmaster strategist:



By the way, if a lion fought a tiger in the wild, who would win? According to muscle mass and heaviness you would put your money on the tiger. But lions live in social groups so they know how to fight against similarly armed animals. The lions skill would most likely prove he is indeed the king of the jungle.
https://books.google.com/books?id=R5ikAgAAQBAJ&pg=RA2-PA48&dq=%22lion+fought+a+tiger%22++india&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RjKvVJy1N5WwogSwhIKACg&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA


Tigers are bigger than lions, but lions may be stronger. Who would win in a fight? Most experts say that the lion would kill the tiger.
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Most+experts+M+say+that+the+lion+would+kill+the+tiger%22&tbo=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=bks&ei=FH2vVN6qL8jyoATYjICwBQ&sa=N


"Which is the stronger — the lion or the tiger?" Would  it not be interesting to discover that "contrary to popular belief, the tiger because of the herculean structure of its frontal muscles is considered the stronger, , just as he is larger and heavier; and yet in a combat between lion and tiger the lion invariably wins chiefly because of his mane, which serves both as visor and coat of mail, protecting both face and throat
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22coat+of+mail%2C+protecting+both+face%22++throat&tbo=p&tbm=bks&num=10


While polls show that most people consider the species to beat in an animal-versus-animal throwdown to be a lion or tiger, with much back and forth about which of these would win, and for the record its probably the lion…
https://books.google.com/books?id=ljqRVptXG-sC&pg=PA30&dq=%22would+win%22+lion+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fvyyVNyVNJKzoQTogoGABw&ved=0CBIQ6AEwBg

(Indias biologist are worried that lions may threaten tigers survival)

Relocation of Asiatic lions to Kuno may relegate tigers: Activists
The author has posted comments on this articleTNN | Apr 17, 2013, 04.53AM IST

The defenition of Relegate:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/relegate

JAIPUR: While the Supreme Court order on Monday of relocating some of the Asiatic lions found only in the Gir forest of Gujarat to the Kuno Wildlife Sanctuary in Madhya Pradesh might have brought smiles on many faces, it has also stolen the same from some. The apex court's orders on a PIL are a bid to disperse the highly-endangered species in a bid to save it from total extinction.

Close to Ranthambhore tiger reserve, the Kuno wildlife sanctuary has played host to many a tiger from Rajasthan and activists fear that the presence of lions in Kuno might just jeopardize the chances of the tigers' survival there or at least relegate it to the second position…

Any one of these links states it:
http://www.google.com/search?ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&source=hp&q=Relocation+of+Asiatic+lions+to+Kuno+may+relegate+tigers%3A+Activists&gbv=1



FEATS ON CROCODILES WHO ARE ABLE TO FIGHT BACK


TIGERS


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC58n7kfN2w

(Other times shows the tigers doing not so well)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WSDvregySw

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/in-sunderbans-crocodile-devours-tiger/829699/

We are told of frequent combats between the crocodile and the tiger. All creatures of the tiger kind are continually oppressed by a parching thirst, that keeps them in the vicinity of great rivers, whither they descend to drink very frequently. It is upon these occasions that they are seized by the crocodile; and they die not unrevenged. The instant they are seized upon, they turn with the greatest agility, and force their claws into the crocodile's eyes, while he plunges with his fierce antagonist into the river. There they continue to struggle for some time, till at last the tiger is drowned.
https://books.google.com/books?id=3jVFAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA352&dq=We+are+told+of+frequent+combats+between+the+crocodile+and+the+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kVSwVKa-CtTmoASS14CYCw&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAg

(Tigers dont seem to have escaped in water)

There they continue to struggle, till the tiger is drowned.
https://books.google.com/books?id=ARBAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA67-IA1&dq=crocodile+drowned+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=t1OwVPmtGs_1oASns4DACA&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA


LIONS


http://www.theserenaexperience.com/showdown/

(Other times seems like lions did well)

http://www.pictures-of-cats.org/images/lion-vs-tiger-lion-wins-most-times-21628745.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/Treepol/SLfWi5QUgFI/AAAAAAAABMk/MqOmwhDmaWE/P1000699.JPG

http://www.viralspell.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/lc-5.jpg

I have heard one reliable instance of a crocodile having been killed in such an encounter with lions
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Animal_Life_in_Africa_v3_1000120477/93

Evidence of Asiatic lions have killed crocs
https://books.google.com/books?id=J0rME6RjC1sC&pg=PA148&dq=lion+devoured+a+crocodile&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AouvVK9qlbGiBMvugIgH&ved=0CBQQ6AEwBw

Even a fully satiated lion will not readily relinquish its feast an instead drags it inch by inch up the sand, followed by an equally determined crocodile. In the intense heat and with an uncomfortably distended belly, the lion at first merely swats the crocodile’s snout or snaps at a scaly hind leg. The reptile retaliates, provoking hisses and growls, meaner swats and moreferocious snaps. The confrontation quickly escalates into an awe-inspiring spectacle. In the midst ofthe battle it’s difficult to gauge which of Africa’s two top predators will win, but in the end usually thelion gains the upper hand. Not always, though – one Valley resident reported seeing a single lionessswim out to a dead hippo on a sandbank midstream and climb on top of the carcass. She put up aspirited fight to keep her booty from surrounding crocodiles but they eventually chased her back to shore.
~ Battleground Luangwa - Global Sojourns

(Lions have escaped from crocodiles even in deep water)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEG0OnF2PCY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay7fPWiQAeM



PAW STRIKING FEATS



Beatty flirting with death one blow of the paw would splinter the chair to cues, and some of them become absolutely uncontrollable
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BOtQW23YxNEJ:http://bklyn.newspapers.com/newspage/58265797/+site:newspapers.com+lion+blow+paw+tiger&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1

It is in the hot and dry plains of Africa that the lion is chiefly found. It is the most powerful animal of the cat tribe, to which it belongs. All animals of this kind feed on other animals, which they take by surprise…The fore paws of a lion are amazingly strong, so that he is able to break the brick of a horse with one blow, and there are few animals that can resist him when once he attacks them.
https://books.google.com/books?id=j-M-AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA88&dq=lion+paw+blow+giraffe&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QOepVMWBI4axogT_uoHAAg&ved=0CBgQ6AEwCTge

Amazing height difference:


One blow from the lion on the left:


And down goes the giant:


(Similar occaison)

One lion draws the giraffe forward while the other springs upon its outstretched neck from behind and the first blow of the paw or shake of the lion's head when the jaws have closed upon it brings down the giraffe with a broken neck.
http://www.google.com/search?q=One+lion+draws+the+giraffe+forward+while+the+other+springs+upon+its+outstretched++neck+from+behind+and+the+first+blow+of+the+paw+or+shake+of+the+lion%27s+head+when&tbo=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=bks&ei=wuWpVPXeGsLhoATClYKgCw&sa=N


The Kane Republican from Kane, Pennsylvania · Page 2 Wednesday, July 18, 1917

Lion Kills Bear. In a phorl battle at the carnival grounds in Corry Monday night. bettween members of the bear and the lion families the latter was returned the victor an Having delivered a vicious assault on the bruin's head quarters. There was nothing to the skirmish, for the bear was outclassed outgeneraled and outslugged and never had a ghost of a show with the African jungle King, it was all over in the twinkling of an eye and the bear lay quite dead on the floor of his cage which the lion had invaded in making the attack.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:N2HgDiDXZu4J:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/49857366/+site:newspapers.com+lion+kills+bear&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1

It has been stated that the blow of a lion's paw is the hardest "punch" in Nature.
~Frank Walter Lane Sheridan House, Jan 1, 1954 - Science - 333 pages


ACCOUNTS








Herald-Post from El Paso, Texas · Page 3 Friday, July 14, 1972


Montana avenue. Tiger Pelt To Go To High Bidder Zoo director Ray Arras said today that plans are being formulated to.call for bids of the pelt of Rajah, the Zoo's Bengal Tiger that was killed in a fight with two lions late yesterday. Arras said the City Clerk's office has unofficially received inquiries from 'ex-students of El Paso High School about the availability of the pelt. The school's mascot symbol is a tiger. A board of inquiry will also be set up by Zoo and Park officials to probe the tiger-lion fight yesterday at feeding time when a door was opened between the two pits holding the animals. The male and female lion attacked the tiger and the Bengal's neck was broken.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:madf3NmLZL8J:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/12169650/+site:newspapers.com+lion+fights+tiger+dies&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1


CONSENSES


Although some those extracurricular experts dont have as much credentials as people like Clyde beatty who base it off of observation and experince, some of them like Neil are considered some of the smartest minds in stradegy...also too like the church would have some of the highest knowledge of latin and other roman like history. Studying the tigers striking method shows why there isn't much of any genuine accounts of knocking down, stunning or killing any large animal with blunt force, its because of multiple things, he is to much on the defensive as a striker, his stance goes against generating strong force, and his physiology in how his weight is distributed, via short arms, small and short shoulders/height, his body is alot more lithe and elongated, while the lion taller, while his body more compact.


What have we learned?

-Some of the smartest people on earth back the lion.
-Crocs have a better score card against tigers than lions.
-Lions are known to have the strongest punch of the carnivorians.
-People in india are worried the tiger will be killed off by the reintroducted lions.
-The accounts of lions killing tigers in captivity proves those tigers near Kuno will probably not fair well against lions in the wild because of the lions superior unity.


Hey C.S nice extension of whitfield, sorry I couldent PM you back on the other forum, some kind of glicth, is blocking me. No dought more info is out there, cool info.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2015 at 02:39
Nice extension on Whitfields fight. I wonder if these are those to same lions Notch and his Brother:



EXTRACURRICULAR EXPERTS


Niel Mcdonald Grandmaster strategist:



By the way, if a lion fought a tiger in the wild, who would win? According to muscle mass and heaviness you would put your money on the tiger. But lions live in social groups so they know how to fight against similarly armed animals. The lions skill would most likely prove he is indeed the king of the jungle.
https://books.google.com/books?id=R5ikAgAAQBAJ&pg=RA2-PA48&dq=%22lion+fought+a+tiger%22++india&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RjKvVJy1N5WwogSwhIKACg&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA


Tigers are bigger than lions, but lions may be stronger. Who would win in a fight? Most experts say that the lion would kill the tiger.
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Most+experts+M+say+that+the+lion+would+kill+the+tiger%22&tbo=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=bks&ei=FH2vVN6qL8jyoATYjICwBQ&sa=N


"Which is the stronger — the lion or the tiger?" Would  it not be interesting to discover that "contrary to popular belief, the tiger because of the herculean structure of its frontal muscles is considered the stronger, , just as he is larger and heavier; and yet in a combat between lion and tiger the lion invariably wins chiefly because of his mane, which serves both as visor and coat of mail, protecting both face and throat
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22coat+of+mail%2C+protecting+both+face%22++throat&tbo=p&tbm=bks&num=10


While polls show that most people consider the species to beat in an animal-versus-animal throwdown to be a lion or tiger, with much back and forth about which of these would win, and for the record its probably the lion…
https://books.google.com/books?id=ljqRVptXG-sC&pg=PA30&dq=%22would+win%22+lion+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fvyyVNyVNJKzoQTogoGABw&ved=0CBIQ6AEwBg

(Indias biologist are worried that lions may threaten tigers survival)

Relocation of Asiatic lions to Kuno may relegate tigers: Activists
The author has posted comments on this articleTNN | Apr 17, 2013, 04.53AM IST

The defenition of Relegate:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/relegate

JAIPUR: While the Supreme Court order on Monday of relocating some of the Asiatic lions found only in the Gir forest of Gujarat to the Kuno Wildlife Sanctuary in Madhya Pradesh might have brought smiles on many faces, it has also stolen the same from some. The apex court's orders on a PIL are a bid to disperse the highly-endangered species in a bid to save it from total extinction.

Close to Ranthambhore tiger reserve, the Kuno wildlife sanctuary has played host to many a tiger from Rajasthan and activists fear that the presence of lions in Kuno might just jeopardize the chances of the tigers' survival there or at least relegate it to the second position…

Any one of these links states it:
http://www.google.com/search?ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&source=hp&q=Relocation+of+Asiatic+lions+to+Kuno+may+relegate+tigers%3A+Activists&gbv=1



FEATS ON CROCODILES WHO ARE ABLE TO FIGHT BACK


TIGERS


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC58n7kfN2w

(Other times shows the tigers doing not so well)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WSDvregySw

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/in-sunderbans-crocodile-devours-tiger/829699/

We are told of frequent combats between the crocodile and the tiger. All creatures of the tiger kind are continually oppressed by a parching thirst, that keeps them in the vicinity of great rivers, whither they descend to drink very frequently. It is upon these occasions that they are seized by the crocodile; and they die not unrevenged. The instant they are seized upon, they turn with the greatest agility, and force their claws into the crocodile's eyes, while he plunges with his fierce antagonist into the river. There they continue to struggle for some time, till at last the tiger is drowned.
https://books.google.com/books?id=3jVFAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA352&dq=We+are+told+of+frequent+combats+between+the+crocodile+and+the+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kVSwVKa-CtTmoASS14CYCw&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAg

(Tigers dont seem to have escaped in water)

There they continue to struggle, till the tiger is drowned.
https://books.google.com/books?id=ARBAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA67-IA1&dq=crocodile+drowned+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=t1OwVPmtGs_1oASns4DACA&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA


LIONS


http://www.theserenaexperience.com/showdown/

(Other times seems like lions did well)

http://www.pictures-of-cats.org/images/lion-vs-tiger-lion-wins-most-times-21628745.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/Treepol/SLfWi5QUgFI/AAAAAAAABMk/MqOmwhDmaWE/P1000699.JPG

http://www.viralspell.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/lc-5.jpg

I have heard one reliable instance of a crocodile having been killed in such an encounter with lions
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Animal_Life_in_Africa_v3_1000120477/93

Evidence of Asiatic lions have killed crocs
https://books.google.com/books?id=J0rME6RjC1sC&pg=PA148&dq=lion+devoured+a+crocodile&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AouvVK9qlbGiBMvugIgH&ved=0CBQQ6AEwBw

Even a fully satiated lion will not readily relinquish its feast an instead drags it inch by inch up the sand, followed by an equally determined crocodile. In the intense heat and with an uncomfortably distended belly, the lion at first merely swats the crocodile’s snout or snaps at a scaly hind leg. The reptile retaliates, provoking hisses and growls, meaner swats and moreferocious snaps. The confrontation quickly escalates into an awe-inspiring spectacle. In the midst ofthe battle it’s difficult to gauge which of Africa’s two top predators will win, but in the end usually thelion gains the upper hand. Not always, though – one Valley resident reported seeing a single lionessswim out to a dead hippo on a sandbank midstream and climb on top of the carcass. She put up aspirited fight to keep her booty from surrounding crocodiles but they eventually chased her back to shore.
~ Battleground Luangwa - Global Sojourns

(Lions have escaped from crocodiles even in deep water)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEG0OnF2PCY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay7fPWiQAeM



PAW STRIKING FEATS



Beatty flirting with death one blow of the paw would splinter the chair to cues, and some of them become absolutely uncontrollable
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BOtQW23YxNEJ:http://bklyn.newspapers.com/newspage/58265797/+site:newspapers.com+lion+blow+paw+tiger&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1

It is in the hot and dry plains of Africa that the lion is chiefly found. It is the most powerful animal of the cat tribe, to which it belongs. All animals of this kind feed on other animals, which they take by surprise…The fore paws of a lion are amazingly strong, so that he is able to break the brick of a horse with one blow, and there are few animals that can resist him when once he attacks them.
https://books.google.com/books?id=j-M-AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA88&dq=lion+paw+blow+giraffe&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QOepVMWBI4axogT_uoHAAg&ved=0CBgQ6AEwCTge

Amazing height difference:


One blow from the lion on the left:


And down goes the giant:


(Similar occaison)

One lion draws the giraffe forward while the other springs upon its outstretched neck from behind and the first blow of the paw or shake of the lion's head when the jaws have closed upon it brings down the giraffe with a broken neck.
http://www.google.com/search?q=One+lion+draws+the+giraffe+forward+while+the+other+springs+upon+its+outstretched++neck+from+behind+and+the+first+blow+of+the+paw+or+shake+of+the+lion%27s+head+when&tbo=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=bks&ei=wuWpVPXeGsLhoATClYKgCw&sa=N


The Kane Republican from Kane, Pennsylvania · Page 2 Wednesday, July 18, 1917

Lion Kills Bear. In a phorl battle at the carnival grounds in Corry Monday night. bettween members of the bear and the lion families the latter was returned the victor an Having delivered a vicious assault on the bruin's head quarters. There was nothing to the skirmish, for the bear was outclassed outgeneraled and outslugged and never had a ghost of a show with the African jungle King, it was all over in the twinkling of an eye and the bear lay quite dead on the floor of his cage which the lion had invaded in making the attack.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:N2HgDiDXZu4J:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/49857366/+site:newspapers.com+lion+kills+bear&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1

It has been stated that the blow of a lion's paw is the hardest "punch" in Nature.
~Frank Walter Lane Sheridan House, Jan 1, 1954 - Science - 333 pages


ACCOUNTS








Herald-Post from El Paso, Texas · Page 3 Friday, July 14, 1972


Montana avenue. Tiger Pelt To Go To High Bidder Zoo director Ray Arras said today that plans are being formulated to.call for bids of the pelt of Rajah, the Zoo's Bengal Tiger that was killed in a fight with two lions late yesterday. Arras said the City Clerk's office has unofficially received inquiries from 'ex-students of El Paso High School about the availability of the pelt. The school's mascot symbol is a tiger. A board of inquiry will also be set up by Zoo and Park officials to probe the tiger-lion fight yesterday at feeding time when a door was opened between the two pits holding the animals. The male and female lion attacked the tiger and the Bengal's neck was broken.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:madf3NmLZL8J:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/12169650/+site:newspapers.com+lion+fights+tiger+dies&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1


CONSENSES


Although some those extracurricular experts dont have as much credentials as people like Clyde beatty who base it off of observation and experince, some of them like Neil are considered some of the smartest minds in stradegy...also too like the church would have some of the highest knowledge of latin and other roman like history. Studying the tigers striking method shows why there isn't much of any genuine accounts of knocking down, stunning or killing any large animal with blunt force, its because of multiple things, he is to much on the defensive as a striker, his stance goes against generating strong force, and his physiology in how his weight is distributed, via short arms, small and short shoulders/height, his body is alot more lithe and elongated, while the lion taller, while his body more compact.


What have we learned?

-Some of the smartest people on earth back the lion.
-Crocs have a better score card against tigers than lions.
-Lions are known to have the strongest punch of the carnivorians.
-People in india are worried the tiger will be killed off by the reintroducted lions.
-The accounts of lions killing tigers in captivity proves those tigers near Kuno will probably not fair well against lions in the wild because of the lions superior unity.


Hey C.S nice extension of whitfield, sorry I couldent PM you back on the other forum, some kind of glicth, is blocking me. No dought more info is out there, cool info.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2015 at 05:31
lol looks like a mess up, with the post and some links dont go through, oh wells, will get to them laters.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2015 at 21:00


Thanks for the info, that new account of Rajah, I believe from the evidence we have, most likely it was the male lion doing all the fighting before the tigers was killed, the lioness would of just accompanied it as it went after the male tiger. Most video footage we have, just shows lionesses standing around the male while he fights the tigers off. For some reason I can't use the pm on this site at the moment, but great new evidence and info.  We should do a catagorie list of only male tigers killed by lions.  And compile a same list for the tigers side to compare and match to come to an even more decisive conclusion.

Apparently there is a some video footage of a fight in Ron Whitfield's act, its only a few seconds but you can see 3 lions fighting each other, and the other lions trying to get at the tigers.


http://circusnospin.blogspot.com/2011/02/marine-world-africa-usa.html

Its about 2:30 in,   http://vimeo.com/6165492


There's also a description of a huge fight that went on for a half hour long between just lions that Whitfield trained, comment from Wade Burck,  http://circusnospin.blogspot.com/2011/05/old-marineworld-africa-usa.html

Whether its tigers or just lions alone, lions are the ever ready to start fighting even against each other.

I do believe this account where it says the tigers got much the worst of it, is indeed the same account as the tiger Thai getting knocked over and bit by Notch, either way, its important to note, it says it was an all male cat act, no females, so these were male tigers that got the worst of it.

Sevengill: The Shark and Me - Page 150

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0590410075
Don C. Reed - 1987 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
guisher, startling the lions and thereby saving the tigers, who had much the worst of the fight. I sought out Ron Whitfield some time afterward. I knew he trained the modern way, avoiding the staged and destructive fights which had once been a ...





Edited by Lion crest - 15-Jan-2015 at 21:05
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2015 at 00:33
I agree,

The lions are programed to rule, dominate, invade/protect, the tiger is to hunt, share his kills with rivals, and avoid anything dangerous to his life unless by ambush or surprise. There personalitys are completely different:


Charles Tex Stone


Without warning the lion rolled over and struck at Stone with a heavy forepaw--it brought a roundhouse . right up from the floor, as a boxer would say. Hit in the stomach. Stone flew 15 feet through the air, while the lion sprang to its feet and made off. A native bearer ran up. The lion killed him with one blow of its paw

Quickly he clubbed his rifle. A royal Bengal tiger, photographed by Tex Stone at night on an expedition in French Indo- China. or 100 yards and then he decides to go away and resume his nap somewhere else. But the tiger--when he goes away, it's because he's scared of you. The lion doesn't know what fear is."

Stone holds the lion to be a tougher antagonist. Having hunted both -- with bow and arrows, and with more orthodox equipment -- he has his information at first hand. ' tiger'll run away from you," he says. ·*· "You come up on him, and he'll turn to go away. But the lion -- well, he goes away too, usually, but it's just because he doesn't want to be bothered. If you crowd him the least bit he'll turn around and come at you. "You come up on him when he's sleepy, you see
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1zQhqpVc2XEJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/30989359/+site:newspapers.com+lion+tiger+rolled+over+and+over&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1



I dont think a catagorizing is needed, atleast not yet...the list is still quite small...only a few accounts has been added to the list Bold champ, Leowfin and Schama them pre-used (whom are some of the first to compile death accounts), and we only have added in a few as well if we speak of specifically death accounts. And I dont think gender is a real factor at this point, nor is size as I just posted about the difference in size between leopards and female tigers vs males just to give a base line:

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35256


To me, it all revolves around if the lion has a large mane that extends to the uderside, that seems to be what tigers or practically all animals havent breached, atleast with hard evidence of a photo, there are man photos of tigers with puncture wounds to the neck, shouldn't there be atleast 10 photos of lions haveing there neck portion ripped out as well in order to even begin debating if the tiger would win? I mean if its so conclusive that tigers wins (as tiger fans claim) show atleast 10 photos. But they cant, all they have is second hand accounts which under analysis none even shows anything of a sort upon its...Root source... People can cherry pick any size of tiger they want to run there hypotheicals on from 600+ lb bengals to 800+ lb siberians, its not like tiger fans go by its species average to begin with, (yet they are quick to squeeze in the word average every time), nor even its sub-species average, its always the biggest tiger they can find vs the smallest lion they wanna cherry pick bit. But its who would win overall...there are people who think tigers drove lions out of india dis-regarding the lions social system, this is why I count the accounts where they mention two on ones as well, to highlight how idiotic these claims are and obviously driven by some type of bias.


Thats pretty much my main reason on subject, because the heavy bias polluted all over the web, even on many history books, the people who havent seen a tiger or lion in their life misinforming people as if they were an authority or an expert, and it repeats from book to book getting more over exaggerated until you have entire sites quoteing all the false information, including novels, fictional books, lies and BS they could find. But its evident, its a sheeple thing, once they hear others like the notion of bigger, stronger, faster, more powerful over all, instead to check if its true, they just waver in on pure BS. Its quite sad that people are that stupid. I'm not saying who ever favors the tiger is stupid, I'm saying the information they pass on and the details these bias people give is stupid. I think the best sources are ones of experince, not books who quote other books, who quote other books, who got it from some unknown where the credability is now warped.

But again, this is only the beggining parts of the data, I'm sure alot more info will be coming in a few. But I'm gona try an stick to just experts opinions, historical artifacts, and death accounts...more so death accounts. The others are cool an all, but they wont mean anything to the essential arguments, I just posted the weights, an some strength feats of strikes and bites, because obviously I had to embed it into these fanatics minds who think tigers are giant cats, while lions tiny when the same now can be said of majority of the tigers sub-specific population. So I dont care for weight statistics most bring about, I'm just trying help answer who has killed the other more, pretty much what people have been asking for thousands of years before they knew of sub-species, or weight statistics, just a plain straight up qustion, who would beat who...lion or tiger. The data suggest so far it could be the lion as the winner...but since its more consice with science wanting to exploit every loop hole, a little more than a few sources is gona be needed to give a genuine and fool's-proof answer. But I think we can answer it in time. It certainly is one of earths most awesomes't questions.


Keep up the good search too, pretty cool stuff...Thanks for the post.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2015 at 18:23
I found this interesting re reading it, Peter from yuku, helped measure several siberian tigers, and a circus lion, they found that the lion had the same size chest as the largest siberian tiger, yet the siberian tiger weighed more.  But why was that?Here's part of the post,Arames, by the way, was 102-103 cm. at the shoulder when standing (I
watched him for a long time and so did two keepers). Length of head and
body 194 cm. and tail 104 cm. Total length 298 cm. in a straight line
and 312 cm. 'over curves'. Weight 185,5 kg., chest 119 cm and fore-arm
50 cm. The other 2 Amur tigers were shorter, but quite a bit bigger in
skull, neck, fore-arm (55,5 and 57,0 cm.), paw and chest. The 13-year
old male circus lion taped 174,5 cm. in head and body straight, but
he had the biggest skull and his chest was a big as in the two male Amur
tigers. The difference, apart form length, was in neck, fore-arm and
paw. The other male lions I measured confirmed, meaning it could be a
consistent difference between Amur tigers and lions. Lions are shorter,
but big in skull and chest. The difference in weight might have been a
result of length
.
Amurs are decidedly longer. Same impression for the
new Amur tigers and lions in the centre. http://animalsversesanimals.yuku.com/topic/2371/A-DAY-AT-THE-CIRCUS?page=11#.VL2PgOHNlyC

** Red as used for emphasis... is a restricted color reserved for staff use only as per the Coc. Please refrain from using it in the future.

Thanks for your cooperation.

CV

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 19-Jan-2015 at 18:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2015 at 19:49
Hey Lion crest,

Yeah, Peter was one of the more informative and positive tiger supporters from Yuku, I remember some of his post, for starters he said he had interviewed thousands of trainers of lions/tigers, has measured himself tigers/lions, and went bonkers against Bold champ about Clyde beatty is a liar, beatty was bias, and as you once said...character assasinated argument. First of all, there is no thousands of trainers, there are only a few hundred and even less mixed the acts, second anyone who claims to have measured these animals in our era, usually does take photos of the exact specimens, I yet to see his own photos of anything he proclaimed studied, and thirdly...Beatty wasnt bias, he was amazed in what he saw, beatty never lied as Peter would act as if the books Clyde wrote is not backed up, there are some 100+ articles of Beatty with his 10-43 mixed lion/tiger act, even with some photos of the actual killing, photos, abstracts and even videos...sorry but the credability doesnt get more strengthen'd than that.



SIZE COMPARISON

204 kg tiger

http://programmes.putin.kremlin.ru/en/tiger/news/11208

280 kg lion


(Example of secondary length)




JOB TITLE/OCCUPATION

(Male lion = Ruler of the females)


(Male tiger = Ruled by the females)


TIGER MORTALLY INJURED Rajah, a 500-pound full-grown Bengal tiger, was mauled and chewed to death Monday by two tigresses
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ygzmR8-c9NIJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/52421548/+site:newspapers.com+bengal+tiger+dies++in+fight&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1



FIGHTING ABILITIES COMPARISON


http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn94050554/1897-06-17/ed-1/seq-4.pdf

TIGER

Known to... not be able to kill a man with blunt force of the paws:

Clyde unaware, bounced him from behind, and sent him spinning, head-first, into the sawdust! Then the animal pounced upon Beatty and began whacking him over the head with its paws!
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jJUTWEl2-4EJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/24437739/+site:newspapers.com+lion+rips+tiger&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1

LION

Known as...

According: to naturalists, the blow of a lion's paw is the most powerful force; that any animal can deliver
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:UoHBiNdvZFoJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/49572190/+site:newspapers.com+fight++Lion+paw+blow+strongest&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1[/url]



Andy learned alot today about how tough a tiger is, but if a tiger and a lion get into a fight, which one would win? Anmimal experts say a lion will beat a tiger any day of the week.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Csh3Nsfqv0oJ:http://pantagraph.newspapers.com/newspage/70740784/+site:newspapers.com+lion+tiger+fight+turin&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1



ACCOUNTS



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma

Film on a crocodile hunt in Burma and a lion-tiger battle in a river bed were shown. The lion won the fight with the tiger, which is unusual as the tiger usually comes out on top when the two animals meet.

The Brownsville Herald » 1951 » June » 7 Jun 1951, Thu » Page 7
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6wvy1w9SDpgJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/23876885/+site:newspapers.com+lion+tiger+battle&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayas

Scene in the Himalaya Mountains. atlast it mustered its strength and struck the tiger so hard that it fell and soon was dead.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tYhDiHUIMMUJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/28175430/+site:newspapers.com+himalayan+mountains+tiger+struck+lion&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1

None came near while the lion attacked the tiger
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22the+lion+attacked+the+tiger%22&tbo=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=bks&ei=E2e9VPamGti3yATd4oK4CQ&sa=N


CONSENSES


I agree with what you told me before Lion crest, that the tigers extra weight is in his longer body, to me thats where all his weight is, the lions weight is in his bigger front quarters. The lion seems the bigger overall atleast on average, what I ment for example of secondary length is, the tiger has a longer tail, but the lion has longer arms, the standard of measuring these animals was always tip of the tail to tip of the nose, I think if the lion is measured outwards of tip of the tail to tip of the paw, the lion will be longer, for these judgemental fanatics, the word bigger can mean all the difference, but inversa these animals are so alike the difference is usually by inches or meer pounds, atleast to the extreme, on average though the lion seems to have bigger everything, since how long is a bali, sumatran, malay, sundarban bengal ectt? And whens the last actual report of scientist adjusting food content when they weigh tigers? Because more than 8 so far mention this method, Schaller even stated in his book, the 857 lb tiger ate heavily the very day before they shot the tiger, and he estimated the tiger to be a true adjusted weight of 700 lbs, only 10 lbs heavier than the largest lion or the largest excepted lion by that source. So on average the lion is much taller, longer, heavier, and so forth, tigers are only larger in the extreme cases and still there is no concrete proof as many hunters, natrualist and biologist state that different means of measurements and each of all 3 chastize the credability of each's method or credentials in showing the proof via photo, as known none have ever weighed tigers on photo like conservationalist have today. As for the accounts, tiger fans have made aclaims that the video of the himalayas is the Gir forest fight from Castle films, but then again, it more sounds of another deciving tactics of desperation in order to sway people away of continuing the search of those videos, for instance, they state the gir forest fight was propaganda for the british, (tiger fans say) the british shot the tiger with a poison dart so the lion can win, and they used 6 male lions on 1 tigress when in fact it was 3 vs 3, to top it off, castle films is not a British owned film industry, Castle films is of american. Again, it seems of a desperate attempt in order to discourage people to not looking for the truth, many fights were filmed in india that people are unaware of still, as:

Chinnappa Devar, the South Indian producer, made tigers and lions fight each other and slaughtered dozens of snakes during the making of Vellikelamai Vritham

~The illustrated weekly of India
http://www.google.com/search?q=+Vellikelamai+Vritham+lion+tiger+&tbo=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=bks&ei=fm1JVKmPL8-QigKDnIC4Dw&sa=N


What have we learned?

-The tiger doesnt have a fighting occupation and only needs to hunt for himself, the male lions job is to keep in control of his pride both out threats and in.
-Female tigers have rutinely killed males, no accounts surfaced of lionesses killing male lions even though they can group up as large as 12+ female lions.
-The fighting abilities is noted better for lions
-Tiger blows are usually death by lacerations, not blunt force, lions are reknowned as the strongest strikeing force animal, atleast for the meat eaters
-In asia, the lion has killed tigers on film in several places.
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