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Topic ClosedLions vs. Tigers

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Poll Question: If lions and tigers were to have a deathmatch, who would win?
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lions vs. Tigers
    Posted: 18-Jun-2015 at 05:49
After having read all the new info in this thread (mainly brought by Prime)and the contributions by posters like Lion Crest and Leogwig in other previous forums I have found my old theory about size in big cats reinforced.

Size is probably more important in male lions than in the rest of cats, included lionesses, due to the existence of the protecting mane.

In the case of the rest of cats, not being protected in the most vulnerable areas (neck, belly, nape of the head, etc.) the crucial factor turns out to be swiftness and agility. We easily find smaller tigers dominating their bigger rivals, tigresses killing male tigers, female leopards or cougars killing much bigger male tigers or even bears (both grizzlies, polars, leaving blacks apart), etc. In this context, a bigger size means usually a slower less agile animal, leaving the vital areas of the anatomy more exposed and vulnerable.

My theory also work when comparing the different tiger subspecies. The bigger ones, the Amurs and Bengals, are not only the less ferocious and aggressive but also the less agile, involving therefore a much worst fighter in comparison with their cousins from China and Sumatra. It would be interesting in this respect to bring information about possible past accounts of Sumatrans or Chinas killing Bengals or Amurs in captivity conditions.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2015 at 07:45
Yes, smaller or medium ones would have more mobility, more weight equals more fatigue espeacially when you arnt designed to be big. In this case leopards and tigresses poses more agility than a super bulky male tiger, it still would just take one bite to end him just the same...since the tiger lacks any skill in the head movement department, they are more suspect. Lions also like to dart in and stay as close as possible but parrying in side to side the most, topped in by his large mane, there are more chances his opponent will run out of gas if they keep striking and....missing...catching only mane...like beatty said, a miss can also be shattering too, throwing blows cost more energy than parrying them wearing them selves out...than the lion turns in the heat and starts dropping bombs...since at that point, when the tiger is all tired out with his hundreds of lightning swats, the tiger wont be able to parry away, dodge or get out of the way much of from a haymaker that the lion will then start throwing. Like most trainers state.
 
 
But in terms of the photos, when they are posted, its more so not to see who is just longer, bigger, heavier ect, its to show what parts of the body they excell in...theres a reason why almost no animal has been recorded killing a male lion specifically with ripping out his neck area who had a large mane... its his mane, theres a reason why the lion strikes harder than bears and tigers, its because of whats hidden under the mane...as andrew howe stated (one of the only people to remove a maned lions hair,) he saw a huge hump of muscle at the shoulders, in the upper body is where all the striking force will come from, and again, no bear or tiger has a upper body that is 2-3x their lower half. The lions frontal quarters is his engine of destruction:
 
2006 24 december Kerstcircus Ahoy Rotterdam 079 | by mafo
 
Tigers are built long and skinny:
IMG_1318 | by alnbbates
 
Long and skinny
 
The head of lions are also bigger too
IMG_1314 | by alnbbates
 
The lion is too well protected, not just in the front of the neck but all the way around:
 
The tiger is more elongated, while the lion is more compact:
2006 24 december Kerstcircus Ahoy Rotterdam 101 | by mafo
 
32 | by jmac33208
 
 
The lions mane doesnt weigh that much, hence it wont add on tonage of fatigue, everything about the tiger fans is always of exceptional things, like 857 pound tigers, andre the giant wasnt obese, he was just big, but how was he all around? Was he lightning fast? Did he have agility? How was his skill, his manuverability? How about his stamina? Its quite easy to debunk tiger fans now, since we are trying to find out who'd win.......On average.
 
I'd bet a 500 lb lion would strike harder than a 857 lb tiger, I'd bet a 500 lb lion with a large mane would have 10x the durability at the neck and belly than a 857 lb tiger, twice the stamina and endurance, twice the skill, twice the gameness.
 
The lions excells in the upper and frontal half, because of thousands of years of facing their opponents head on, the tigers body is skinny and lithe, because he has been for the past 1,000+ years hiding in bushes and attacking from the back, then running for his life from wild dogs, so his body needs to be lithe and flexible, so he can juke out the wild dogs in dense areas and make his escape.
Everybody up! | by mestes76
 
Is it just coincidence that in every photo with a large maned lion next to any type of tiger, the lions upper/frontal area is vastly larger? And that only one of the two has accounts like killing brown bears with one blow, crushing the skulls of hyenas and antelopes, breaking the bones of bovines, stunning and knocking down 2,000-3,000 pound animals with one blow, and dicapitating other formidable foes? Nah...I think its getting closer to knowing the main points of how the lion is vastly stronger in specific areas and advantages specifically protaining to fighting, he is the King of striking (offence) and also is the King of endurance (defence)...or maybe the way to debunk it is, post thousands of photos of tigers with definition'd muscles and state that tiger is around a 1,000 lbs. And he'd still lose to the King of beast aka the lion. lol
 
The lions mane is a mystery to even entire universitys, its still just opinion in why he has it, but the most prominent one comes from the rapid frequency of harm done to those areas, if the lion is not fighting off rival lions, fighting off hyenas, fighting off other animals out of his pride, he is still catching hell from his own pride:
 
The lions frontal area just doesnt catch a break of being whacked at all day, wheather from the females, the males, the juvis, the cubs, they all tear and smash at the upper body all day every day, hence its rapid evolution, or in other words, consistancy-evolution, how may times a month do male tigers get whacked at the head/shoulder/neck/back/underside area other than to the death fights? Your answer is zero...hence no mane for the tiger or any other big cat. This constant bombarding of lacerations and blunt force blows evolves the lion with a protecting factor, if he didnt have a mane, the females would have been able to kill him even one on one, (but they cant with the mane even 5+ on one) if he was consistantly killed by the females, he would not have his authority and figure as head monarch of the clan, as since he cant even protect him self from females, how could he with rivals, other threats and enmies? Hence the lions mane amplifys his confidence and decreases his rivals as well, it enhances his ability to fight recklessly, to take more chances, and to have a building block of skill.
 
Other than figting for territory and mates, where would the tiger get his extra fighting skill from? Certainly not from hunting as there is no skill learned from attacking from the back, hence the tiger has no building block to increase his fighting skill, the tiger is going into battles with only instincts, the lion is going into a fight with gained-experience. Wheather the lion wins or not, he has to endure tons of punishment, this makes the lion more durable and able to cope with being attacked:
 
Hence more punishment, more the need to having a protecting factor. Every tiger fan says the fights arent serious, those arnt play fights, those are life and death scenarios, a tiger wouldnt know how to handle that type of frequent bombarding week to week.
 
 
Some lions manes are just rediculously large:
smiles in trouble | by gicol
 
 
Lions also have the most competition against crocodiles, as shown on the previous page, big crocs nearly 12 feet long arnt all that immune to lions, and crocodiles are a true testiment of courage and gameness since they usually dont back down for their large size and power:
 
The Lion the Crocodile and the Zebra (1 of 5) | by dr brewbottle
 
IMG_9451.jpg | by moochtm
 
Croc vs. Lion Showdown | by bradjward
 
Croc vs. Lion Showdown | by bradjward
 
Lions vs. Crocodile | by tan.hank
 
 
 Lion_Crocodile_Mara_2008_RJK3334 | by RichK008
 
Africa 2011-32.jpg | by Jackals Photography
 
IMG_2133 | by Kaytoo22
 
 
Although near the face of a crocodile would be the worst place to stick their paws, I wonder if there are accounts of big male lions killing large crocodiles with a blow from the paw at the head area...doughtful, but possible.
 
Croc dominated by lions:
 
Another lion then caught the crocodile by the tail, but quickly let go when it thrashed about. All the lions then sat back on their haunches and stared at the crocodile which lay facing them with jaws wide open. In the course of this encounter the the crocodile had contrived to back a good way towards the water's edge, preparing no doubt for a safe and quick retreat. The old male of the pride then lay down with his head on his front paws some three metres from the crocodile.
Both animals lay quite still, for all the world as though trying to stare each other out. This situation lasted for at least half an hour, until finally the crocodile appeared to admit defeat and slowly slipped into the water, to vanish without a ripple beneath
 
Had the crocodile been able to rush forward, the lion would have been caught, but the broken forearm left the other three feeble limbs unequal to the effort jaws snapped in vain, and the lion leapt G again, raging from the blow, but with his mind cool to the chances time he leapt for the tail-grip, his hind-paws on each side of the jaws, his forepaws gripping the tail on either side, and his fangs biting at the root of the tail in an attempt to crush the spine. And the terrific struggle ceased when the fangs at last snapped through gristle and bone. The spine was pierced, and only the snapping of the jaws and the green fire in the stony eyes told that the ferocious spirit of the creature still flamed unquenched. Ngonyama stood off panting, with his eyes on those snapping jaws, and when his wind came back he hooked his claws under the body, and, tugging hard, turned the crocodile over on its broad and scaly back. The jaws were still snapping when the victor tore with fangs and claws at the unprotected belly ; snapped till the slowly pulsating heart was torn away and gulped down in a single mouthful. With his jaws all bloody and his stomach full
 
 


Edited by Prime - 20-Jun-2015 at 20:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2015 at 02:06
Heres another account in 1920, of a source mentioning a lion killing a tiger:
 
On the opposite page, devoted to vital news, a third of a column is occupied by an account of how a tiger was killed by a lion at the Zoo
 
Sooo, since we found a few more, than I guess I'll go put this into the updated list...
 
 
(2015)
 
some people talk about a video of a lion killing a tiger:
 
(2008)
 
Lion kills siberian tigress
 
 
(1995)
 
One of only 70 white tigers left in the world has died a month after being wounded in a fight with two young lions in an Indian zoo. Nandan Kanan animal park
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=MWSB&p_theme=mwsb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB82D10F0087120&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM
 
(1986)
 
I used to be a lion and tiger trainer, and the animals didn't get along," he said. "But during one performance, the animals were in heat, and the lions attacked the tigers, and some of the animals were killed."
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-08-12/entertainment/ca-18814_1_wheel
 
 
 
(1972)
 
Montana avenue. Tiger Pelt To Go To High Bidder Zoo director Ray Arras said today that plans are being formulated to.call for bids of the pelt of Rajah, the Zoo's Bengal Tiger that was killed in a fight with two lions late yesterday. Arras said the City Clerk's office has unofficially received inquiries from 'ex-students of El Paso High School about the availability of the pelt. The school's mascot symbol is a tiger. A board of inquiry will also be set up by Zoo and Park officials to probe the tiger-lion fight yesterday at feeding time when a door was opened between the two pits holding the animals. The male and female lion attacked the tiger and the Bengal's neck was broken.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:madf3NmLZL8J:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/12169650/+site:newspapers.com+lion+fights+tiger+dies&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1
 
 
(1954)
 
During their first performance this spring and during the act two lions attacked and killed a tiger Mr. Beatty stayed in the cage during the entire fight to keep the other animals from getting into it - - - Mr. Beatty says no matter how well you think you know a tiger or lion, you still cannot trust'them The quiet ones are often the most dangerous
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PSpPbnQ-pWoJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/37645569/+clyde+beatty++two+lions+kill+tiger++++site:www.newspapers.com&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1
 
 
(1952)
 
(1951)
 
Lion Prince kills rosie, sheba, slieka the 2nd  in feurary and two other tigers in march, Clyde beatty says he has seen 50 tigers killed by lions in his 40 year career:
 
 
 
(1951)
 
Lion kills tiger in indian zoo jamnagar
 
(1951)

Film on a crocodile hunt in Burma and a lion-tiger battle in a river bed were shown. The lion won the fight with the tiger, which is unusual as the tiger usually comes out on top when the two animals meet.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6wvy1w9SDpgJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/23876885/+site:newspapers.com+lion+tiger+battle&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1
 
(1949)
 
1000-Pound Circus Tiger Loses Fight With Lion NEW BEDFORD, Mass., June 2 (/F>—The lion is still king. When the Biller Brothers circus moved on to its next stop today it left behind the remains of a 1000- pound tiger. The tiger was killed last night in a savage battle with a lion.
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/45908255/
 
(1949)
 
Lion named nero kills tiger named tim:
 
(1948)
 
Lion kills tigress in 90 second fight:
 
(1947)
 
tarzan and henry kills tiger toona:
 
(1944)
 
mentions caesar the lion kills two more tigers
 
(1941)
 
Lion killed a tiger named puna:
 
(1939)
 
lions kill two tigers
 
(1938)
 
Memphis kills sehka
 
(1937)
 
"One day I saw a lion kill a tiger in my husband's act, and I'll admit that for several days I hated to hear the overture for my act." L IONS and tigers are quite apt to stage a fight killing at any time”… He has lost 18 tigers and two lions in such battles.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wWrOvDHyKEwJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/19489238/+circus+lion+tiger+battle+++site:www.newspapers.com&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1
 
(1936)
 
Into the shoot ran three Bengal tigers with Boss Tweed in pursuit. "For twenty minutes they battled. Boss Tweed killed the three tigers, but himself was almost torn to ribbons. He recovered but somehow he never seemed to be the same. His spirit or his fighting nerve was gone. The other morning I opened his cage door and he was dead, for seven years I trained him, the longest of any of my cats. I was greatly attached to him
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1338&dat=19360811&id=StVXAAAAIBAJ&sjid=BvUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4154,2734591
 
(1936)
 
When a connecting door between two cages was left open at Agartala, Bengal, by a forgetful zoo attendant, a very large tiger charged its neighbor, a lion. The fight was ferocious, but did not last long, the lion literally tearing the tiger to pieces.”A sweeper left the cc door between the two cages open and the the lion dodged the first attack and then went into close quarters and maintained his right to the title of king of the jungle by klllIng the tigress.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/courant/access/851717652.html?dids=851717652:851717652&FMT=CITE&FMTS=CITE:AI&type=historic&date=Sep+11%2C+1936&author=&pub=Hartford+Courant&desc=Lion+Kills+Attacking+Tiger&pqatl=google
 
 
(1935)
 
Detroit the lion kills sieberian tigresses nd two bengal tigresses:
 
 
 
(1934)
 
Lion kills tiger
 
(1933)
 
Fight and kill 1 Caesar vs Bobby:
 
Fight and kill 2 Sultan vs Tommy:
 
Fight and kill 3:
 
(1931)
 
Nero the lion had killed the feline tiger Pasha, in saving Beatty's life
 
(1930s)

They grappled and rolled and roared and bit each other. And finally in a split second the tiger dropped motionlessly to the ground. Far too quick for the eye to see, but just at the right moment, this lion, delivered a well-timed blow to the side of the tigers head, and crushed his skull. The lion is a mighty beast.
http://www.google.com/search?ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&source=hp&q=like+Judy+and+I+were+probably+discussing+this+at+dinner+last+evening.+%5Blaughter%5D+Seriously%2C+have+you+ever+wondered+what+would+happen+if+a+lion+and+a+tiger+actually+got+in+a+fight%3F&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1 
 
(1930)
 
Lion kills tiger in italy turin
 
(1928)
 
lion kills 3 tigers at once
 
(1925)
 
 
LIONESS KILLS TIGRESS. - NAGPUR, 26TH October. In the Maharaj Bagh,
while transferring wild animals from one cage to another, a lioness attacked a
tigress and killed her. The animal was subsequently captured and placed in its
cage.
 
(1925)
 
Rudolf Kludsky trains this mixed group of lions and tigers in the stadium or Turin. In the same year each group of species had to be separated as the lions oftentimes attacked the tiger and even killed several specimens.
http://squaresolid.tumblr.com/post/25161533962/squarefocus-tales-of-the-unforgotten-tigers-of-the-world
 
(1923)
 
 
(1920)
 
(1911)
 
In 1911, frank bostock gave an account, which would soon after have been considered unguarded, of fatal fights in his menagerie between lions tigers and other wild animals some years previously. " I saw one lion seize a smaller lion by the throat with his teeth and dash its head against the bars of the runway, cracking it like an egg shell. This was childs play compared with seperating a lion and tiger which generally have an instinctive hatred for each other: "The tiger lay dead in the corner of the cage with his throat half torn away"...Fights in clyde beattys performance at detroit shrine circus in march 1951 resulted in the killing of two tigers by a lion called prince. Following the attacks at least 6,000 customers had to be turned away each performance...Ass the disruption continued, he quietly replaced Prince with another lion, given the same name.
 
(1908)
 
When morning arrived we found the two In the lion's cage, the tiger dead and tb
lion an chewed and clawed to pieces, but still full of fight.!
 
(1907)
 
Lion kills bear and tiger in one fight
 
(1903)
 
lion kills tiger
 
 
(1888)
 
Menageries, Circuses and Theatres Edward Henry Bostock - ‎1927
 
In 1888, I remember, we had a we had a lion named Nero in the next compartment to a three-parts-grown tiger During a journey by road Nero tore a hole in the partition. Through this he squeezed his head to seize the tiger, whom he dragged — impossible though this seemed — through the aperture into his own compartment. The noise of the scuffle attracted the attention of the driver, who stopped his waggon and called for assistance, he being unable to leave his horses, which, alarmed by the noise in the den, were disposed to bolt. Handicapped as they were by lack of tools while on the journey, it was little those who rushed on the scene could do, and within a few minutes the tiger was dead.
 
(1882)
 
A LION KILLS A TIGER. "The lion trainer forgot to lock the door in the partition between the lions and a female tiger that we had fast bought, after his rehearshal at JUayenna, O., and the tigress pushed open and walked into the lion's den. A terrible fight followed, in which one of the lions disemboweled and fatally Injured her; in a-fair fight she could have whipped him, for the tiger Is a more courageous animal.
 
(1855)
 
Lion kills tiger in thw wild of india surat
(1851)
 
In the “Landshuter ZeitungA lion killed a tiger in the wild witnessed by local native’s of India
http://animalsversesanimals.yuku.com/topic/2388/Velar-Male-Lion-vs-Royal-Bengal-Tiger-valauble-rare-account
 
 
 
Thats not to shabby, lets see what the tiger fans can counter it with. And that doesnt include the amount of times lions have whipped and beat up tigers, or all the historic accounts of the romans, japanese, chinese, and india...which is equally if not more in quanity stating lions usually defeated tigers, and not even including the 150+ historical artifacts that portray a lion defeating a tiger, or the 50+ experts who favor the lion over the tiger.
 


Edited by Prime - 21-Jun-2015 at 05:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2015 at 07:45
Yeah, but what it is interesting is how often we may read accounts where, after acknowledging the lion's victory, say that this is a very odd happening since the tiger is "the most courageous of the two", "the tiger is the better fighter",.., and many things like that. This explains how aprioristic may be the first hand opinions on this subject. All the internet is infested with this sort of aprioristic opinions.

Perhaps it would be good to make a chronologically ordered list with only one on one fights, both cats being male and with no other apparent advantage for any of the two contendants.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2015 at 15:15
Its because of people like samuel haughton, john s clarke, frayer, rays corner, castro, hunting records ect...books and news articles were the leading source for the world at the 17th-19th century, there was no internet to fact check anything, what was reported was taken as fact, no matter what. If all the books and articles at the time stated things like...the tiger is much larger than lions, is vastly stronger, is more active, faster more cunning, more dangerous, harder to manage ect...people will only buy into it, but almost 90% of it isnt true, are misinforming and straight up lies, take castro, she reported alipores incident stated the tiger is the true king of beast, a tiger made short work of a lion, (than leaves out the detailsof the lioness was sleeping)...haughton made up phoney lies that he proved tigers are 1/3rd stronger, contradicts his statements that lions muscles are bigger but tigers joints are stronger (all unproveable still to this day) frayer took that and agreed with it without no confirmation an discounted others lessening older records, yet taking in 2,000 old romans one and twisting it.
 
Again, there was no way to fact check things back in the 17-18th century, they didnt even have photos in those eras, (they had sketches), they didnt have electronic scales, (they always went by what ever is longer is heavier or larger in phoney measurements of stretched out skins), they never had any lions and tigers in thousands of zoos (they had only 1 or 2 menageries in the whole country), with articles like clarkes, who said stuff like tigers would win 100/100, why would the average person disagree? They have never seen either, heard storys of them, or know anything about them...hence the newspapers would take up on it and spread mis-information which spreads even more mis info, thats what sheeple do, follows the herd:
 
But one thing science has tawt us today, is the truth can be constantly tested and it will remain consistant, lies constantly tested will crack, fall apart and show its exploits (much like how pckts is unable to sustain a single profile name, theres so much lies and fakes to him and his bullshit), and thats exactly whats happening...do we have the average tiger at 850 lbs an 18 foot long tigers, like back in the 18th century it was commonly known as? No, we have an average of less than 450 for siberians and some at 6-9 feet long with 8 other sub-species the world was untold of (thats literally half the animal and twice the bullshit) Do we have 100s of accounts of tigers killing male lions in all of history? No, we have less than 5, and none showed a fully maned lion, the rest of the 10 or so are females or cubs (as the root articles state). In this era we can fact check things, as I had noticed when wiki was pro-tiger (every site was pumping it out weekly), most people then were capatlizing it in favor of the tiger, than play it off, like...well wiki knows everything, now we have a slightly less bias one, and now lion supporters are making alot more arguments on youtube, forums ect. Look at jackjacksonj, heres putting pckts link into google to show how many sites cited his source as the gods truth:
 
 
Look at wikipedia, its still is on the bottom of the page. XD XD XD You see, its about misinforming the sheeple, if majority take flight to it, then you have countless of brain dead people following the herd, unable to think for them selves, and or driven by bias, the slightest bias can lead into believing in anything.....anything, from lies, to fakes, to misiformation without fact checking none of them will no.
 
Thats what we are here to do, fact check things, if the tiger is the superior every record we have access to now, will be consistant...but is it? No, is the historical artifacts of tigers winning? No, less than 10 in all of history to show for so far and over 120 of lions winning (consistant), is every expert in agreance that tigers win 100/100? No, we have people like beatty, terrell, taylor, nelson, ect upon observation (consistant) do we have feats of tigers powers and prowess? No we have them killing tiny animals, young, weak, photos of already down'd animals with no series of photos or videos of an attack on a healthy bull, yet we have lions taking tons of extra large animals, yes, even alone, and even more effectively (consistant), and finally, do we have hundreds of accounts of tigers killing lions? No, we have less than 20 in all of history, yet look above, look at the list, its alot more than 20. (consistant).
 
If you wanna make a list of just males, then go make it. Its all there already, just post what you wanna post, I already stated, that I dont care for chrry picking statistics since in the wild almost nothing will be fair, cubs are killed, some animals gang up, some are bigger, some faster, its anything goes.
 
 
Any ways, the truth will remain the truth no matter how much deciving, manipulating and misinforming is done, a further search will lead to the uncovering more of the truth, just have to start looking.
 
 


Edited by Prime - 21-Jun-2015 at 17:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2015 at 17:13
Totally, Prime. In the end truth will prevail, although we will have to witness a lot of misinfo and hearsay saying abundantly that tiger is the true king of animals, and things like that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2015 at 17:41
Yup, truth always triumphs.
 
The fight on basics, to anyone can mis-think or over-look key factors, its that close with equal sized lions and tigers naming statistics. But once everything is fully analyzed and abroad, certain aspects will show them selves. With most of this info publicized and known as basics, it can further grow closer to the truth...to be honest, we still dont have that much if only the facts are compiled, if I was to take out all the non-essentials and erase all the post made with just leaving the credible info presented, it will be only a few pages worth.
 
We probably are the first to actually promote a list of each catagorie that will lead to the answering a educated verdict of who would win of the two...again this method of searching through the internet to aid this topic has never been fully tapped into yet...when everything is catagorized and organized and presented, then it can further be grown, once all the accounts have been compiled and accepted, later in the years, more historical artifacts will be uploaded to the web, more accounts will be added to the articles and books of past events will be brought forth, in other words, the longer the web still grows (since this searching technology is relatively new not even 1/100,000ns of the info has been uploaded to the web) alot more will still be out there.
 
lol But I think we can help put together a constructive, fools proof and solid answer of who'd usually win. We just have to keep looking.
 


Edited by Prime - 21-Jun-2015 at 18:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2015 at 18:55
Good news everyone..

After being extirpated by poisoning - in the aftermath of the horrific Ruanda genocide event..

Wild lions are being re-introduced to a national park in Ruanda, as I heard on the BBC news, last night.   
Be Modest In Thyself..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2015 at 19:43
Originally posted by J.A.W.

This old 'Tarzan' movie sequence..

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfEZmuF3IMU 

..shows a staged cage fight between a male lion & a large bull..

As in the wild, if the bull gores the lion.. or if the lion knocks the bull
off its feet & gets a suffocation hold.. it could likely go either way..
.. by chance, or skill?


Edit:, sorry, still can't get that link function to work..
This was a captive lion with no experience in hunting or fighting.

He was with his canines removed as can be seen in 0:31. It is likely that he also had no claws, the blow that applied in the bull's face and attempts to grab him from behind left no cuts or blood.

The place of the fight was also bad for the lion, he couldn't use all his agility, in an open spot the bull would not hit him under any circumstances and if a person with a hand remains on top of the bull, the lion with four paws and claws would too.

Edited by Laiks - 29-Jun-2015 at 19:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2015 at 11:31

Jaw great news there re introducing those lions!

About the bull video, yeah, its important to understand, lions are adapted to hunt buffalo
similar to bulls in a wide open area, with plenty of room to maneuver. The lion will take
advantage of the room, and stay just out of the way of getting hit.  Out in the open a bull
or buffalo has a very hard time killing a male lion. Still there are accounts of male lions killing
bulls in enclosures.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2015 at 20:39
Small lioness take down a huge buffalo by herself after 30 minutes of battle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBLf9yv7mPg

I'd bet my chips on the lion against the bull in an open spot, since a single lion can kill an african buffalo, much larger and more deadly than a bull ( though less aggressive and explosive ), since even a lioness can do it against a huge female buffalo.

Anyway, lion vs tiger: I can't see the tiger emerging victorious, unless he has a lot of luck, the lion is a better fighter, more experienced, brave and has more powerful forepaws, not to mention the mane.

Both have the same weapons, claws and canines of the same size ( ranging from individual to individual ) and bite force equal too, it would not matter, it would be decided by the one who is the best fighter, the lion.

Edited by Laiks - 07-Jul-2015 at 17:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2015 at 03:02
In fact, the real question is, in the light of most of what has been posted in this and other threads, which would be the eventual winner between a male lion and two male tigers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2015 at 09:25
Probably, in the supposition of a two male tigers vs a solo male lion again the result would be of a lion winning. Thus, I see the fight in this way: both tigers either from the very beginning or after interchanging some blows would start running away while chased by the lion (a behavior repeatedly seen and heard from many real accounts, given the individualistic never-ganging attitude of the tiger and the fact that he never accepts fighting if this may be avoided). Then the tigers inferior stamina will probably end up with two exhausted tigers and a lion going for the fatal neck bite to the tigers, one after another.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2015 at 16:10
Also, according to the accounts of hugely experienced beastmasters,
the two tigers are just as likely to fight each other, & not gang up
together, whereas lions do naturally offer mutual support to their breed fellows against rivals (& trainers) - in such settings..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2015 at 05:34
I think that lions are by far more prawn to fight each other in confrontations with many other cats.

The usual behavior in tigers is either run away or stay still to counterattack and defend themselves from lions, not from other tigers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2015 at 19:16
Guys check out this list, its a rough estimate, but about 80 male tigers have been killed by lions total give or take. All tigress's have been taken out and excluded.


http://wildanimalwarfare.yuku.com/topic/6#.VabquPmPNi4


Tiger fans will not put their death account list in chronological order as Prime has done. Not sure what their total number is, but I believe its less then a dozen.


Edited by Lion crest - 18-Jul-2015 at 11:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2015 at 15:43
Originally posted by Laiks



Originally posted by J.A.W.



This old 'Tarzan' movie sequence..
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfEZmuF3IMU 
..shows a staged cage fight between a male lion & a large bull..
As in the wild, if the bull gores the lion.. or if the lion knocks the bull
off its feet & gets a suffocation hold.. it could likely go either way..
.. by chance, or skill?
Edit:, sorry, still can't get that link function to work..


This was a captive lion with no experience in hunting or fighting.He was with his canines removed as can be seen in 0:31. It is likely that he also had no claws, the blow that applied in the bull's face and attempts to grab him from behind left no cuts or blood.The place of the fight was also bad for the lion, he couldn't use all his agility, in an open spot the bull would not hit him under any circumstances and if a person with a hand remains on top of the bull, the lion with four paws and claws would too.



Don't know how old that Tarzan flick is, but most of the flicks done in the 30's and forties [Johnny Wiesmuller] were filmed at "Wakulla Springs" in Wakulla County Fla.

It was a type of Wild animal Park. All of the animals seen in the film were kept on site as part of the display, including the huge Alligators. The alligators are still kept captive today.

















Edited by red clay - 17-Jul-2015 at 15:45
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2015 at 15:47


Prime had posted this artifact awhile ago, the date and country is unknown at this time.... but I can say after looking at, having taken courses in art history. This is definitely legit, most likely sometime around the 1700s, from some European country.
552061048_17b6809245_m.jpg



Which confirms the info we already have, that fights were staged by European kings in the 1700s.  Like this account below in Vienna.



{1790}

Lion kills tiger and bear in Vienna


Sir Thomas Lawrence PRA FRS (13 April 1769 – 7 January 1830) was a leading English portrait painter and president of the Royal Academy.

Lawrence was a child prodigy. One of Lawrence's works below.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Maguerite%2C_Countess_of_Blessington.jpg
 
Sir Thomas paints William Lock below.  In Sir Thomas's letters, he mentions Lock
traveled through Europe with his tutor; while doing so, in Vienna, Lock witnessed a staged fight between a lion, tiger, and bear.  The lion killed both the tiger and bear,
but later died because of fatigue vs a horse.


      William Lock, the man who saw the fight.
                         
Sir Thomas Lawrence : Portrait of William Lock


Sir Thomas Lawrence's Letter-bag

 By Sir Thomas Lawrence, Elizabeth Croft  Pages, 280,281




http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpg/f475ab80bd14427f97aca2af76aa58c6.jpg

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpg/22ccec4029be473eb0930150545b5608.jpg

Note, that is says there was a long pause in between the lion fighting the tiger and the bear. They didn't let the bear enter until the lion was rested... after exerting itself killing the tiger. This further legitimizes this account.



Lion kills bear and tiger in one fight, source and links below.





Edited by Lion crest - 22-Jul-2015 at 12:56
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2015 at 07:11
Yeah, and the most astonishing is that Prime's viewpoint on bear's fighting is plainly confirmed: "by frequent affectionate hugs...". So this is the usual way plantigrades fight and not by throwing strikes as defended by bear-fans since Lairwebb times.

It seems that, against a lion, bear is even more disappoting than tiger, although the bear will usually defeat the tiger.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2015 at 12:59
Originally posted by Catlion

Yeah, and the most astonishing is that Prime's viewpoint on bear's fighting is plainly confirmed: "by frequent affectionate hugs...". So this is the usual way plantigrades fight and not by throwing strikes as defended by bear-fans since Lairwebb times.

It seems that, against a lion, bear is even more disappoting than tiger, although the bear will usually defeat the tiger.



I think its key too that they gave a long pause between the tiger and bear, the lion was able to catch its breath regain stamina to take on the bear.  Multiple accounts seem to show this, yeah bears hug as a fighting technique. I remember Beatty saying as well, that the bear drops its head to protect it, the lion moves it out of the way, but the tiger leaves its head open to being hit.




For those who haven't seen this either and had trouble believing it...here is the actual newspaper pic showing the lion did beat a 1000lb tiger.


(1949)

 Many people have had a hard time believing the lion had killed a 1000lb tiger, but here
is the undisputed proof on this account, with the actual newspaper pic.

e3b5b711551147ed8b0cdf4f3148430f_r.jpg?1

1000-Pound Circus Tiger Loses Fight With Lion NEW BEDFORD, Mass., June 2 (/F>—The lion is still king. When the Biller Brothers circus moved on to its next stop today it left behind the remains of a 1000- pound tiger. The tiger was killed last night in a savage battle with a lion.




Edited by Lion crest - 22-Jul-2015 at 13:09
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