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Topic ClosedLions vs. Tigers
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Poll Question: If lions and tigers were to have a deathmatch, who would win?
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    Posted: 11-Jun-2015 at 00:57
No bigs though, we now no more of the truth.
 
Heres william ballintine, from his book wild tigers and tamed fleas
 
Though the large head with extra strong jaws is not to be underestimated, the lion is also a good bluffer, making his roars more tremendously resonant by sending them into the ground. The widespread reverence for stalwart lion courage is according to animal men, largely unwarranted. Morally the lion is only an immense cat, with all the guileful, vindictive qualities of that slinking creature. In a fair-shake showdown between a full-grown male lion and the same-size, same-sex tiger, animal handlers mostly bet on the lion. Although the tiger is regarded as being more bloodthirsty, treacherous and untamable, the physical differences between the two big cat species are slight, being mainly those of hide, skull and mane. he tiger has no mane, but old male tigers  have long, spreading cheek hair. Much of the lion-tiger difference is in family relations: a lioness never destroys its young; the tigress often does. The lion helps rear his offspring; the tiger forsakes  his lady love for gamier affairs. Physically, the lion has better forequarters and the great advantage of his mane because it protects the carotid artery and acts as a tangle for attacking claws or jaw.
 
Another trainer:
 
The second question I was asked to answer is which would be the victor in a combat, the lion or the tiger...I the second. place, cats as a general rule do not fight other species of cats, and it must be remembered that most animals fight and attack that animal which wishes to take it for food, or else the animal it wishes for food. In other words they are are somewhaof the cat family either socially or otherwise. For example, you would never find a spotted leopard and a lion associating together in the wild state In some zoos occasionally a lion and tiger may be placed together accidentally, and in this event both animals have been so excited they barely knew what they were doing, and of course were separated by the keeper before any damage was done.... Personally believe, judging from qualifications I have seen them exhibit, that the lion could deal a more crushing blow with his paw than the tiger, but the tiger, being quicker, may be able to defend himself to a better advantage 293 than the lion. However, I would be the last person on earth to ever witness or encourage such a combat
 
and wow, a lioness won a battle in contending with 5 grizzly bears:
 
A number of years ago I not only saw but personally participated in a battle to the death between a lioness and five grizzlies I was eighteen at the time— which explains why I did something a more experienced man would not have done. I slipped into the cage, armed only with a hammer, which was the one weapon within reach at the moment. My reception was that usually accorded
peacemakers. The lioness and the bears, dropping their own row, pitched into me. I had to fight my way out of the cage with the hammer, and gained safety most inglo- riously, bespattered with my own and the animals' blood. I established peace, all right by the diversion, but one grizzly had closed his jaws over my nose and torn it in half. As referee, I awarded the battle to the lioness.
 
 
In-credible...sounds like the other lion who use to get into fights with numerous bears at a time and the keeper had to break them up, or the other royal rumble with 3 bears and a lion with a black noted to have been killed. Remember, it says it was a battle to the death...so maybe the lioness killed one or two of them.
 
There also seems to be another film out there of a fight between a leopard and tiger:
 
Would be interesting to see, if the leopardess is defending its cubs, it could be brutal. And check this out, a tigress died after winning a fight with a leopard:
 
 
And check this out, we have another account of a asiatic lion killing a tiger in india:
 
 
LIONESS KILLS TIGRESS. - NAGPUR, 26TH October. In the Maharaj Bagh,
while transferring wild animals from one cage to another, a lioness attacked a
tigress and killed her. The animal was subsequently captured and placed in its
cage.
 
Thats a plus 1 for the so called inferior asiatic lions...an that was just as qualifying, since it was 1 on 1. Heres a where the zoo maharaj bagh is located:
 
Which is one of the former locations where the asiatic lion use to rule.
 
some people talk about a video of a lion killing a tiger:
 
and check this out, yet another lion named nero that killed a younger tiger:
 
In 1888, I remember, we had a we had a lion named Nero in the next compartment to a three-parts-grown tiger During a journey by road Nero tore a hole in the partition. Through this he squeezed his head to seize the tiger, whom he dragged — impossible though this seemed — through the aperture into his own compartment. The noise of the scuffle attracted the attention of the driver, who stopped his waggon and called for assistance, he being unable to leave his horses, which, alarmed by the noise in the den, were disposed to bolt. Handicapped as they were by lack of tools while on the journey, it was little those who rushed on the scene could do, and within a few minutes the tiger was dead.
 
Jeez, alot of neros known as tiger killers. One from beatty who killed two, another in australia at the perth zoo who killed tim, and this one that killed semi-adult tiger with the bostocks.


Edited by Prime - 11-Jun-2015 at 22:00
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Posts: 26 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2015 at 09:25
You do have a reputation, Prime, to use fangs and claws first and ask question later...however, I'm not so easily provoked.
I found this forum through a link that J.A.W put in Carnivora, so I started to read the lion vs tiger thread the same way I did with the same thread in Carnivora. I'm not a big researcher, at least not of hystorical accounts of lions or tigers, but I do am an avid reader, that's why I take my time to read everything. The lion side, the tiger side, and then maybe I try to contribute with some part that maybe was not looked or something that needs to be said about the subject.
I don't throw insults around or make absurds demands, so if this happens in the future, you'll know it's not me. But really, I don't like to waste my time reading people fighting each other; I'd rather use it to learn things I don't know about animals I like and history stuff.
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Posts: 301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2015 at 15:56
lol Yes, I am aware of my reputation...an I get it...again, was just too close to the recent spammers that were banned, if it werent for them I would have had no problem with you. I even seen you make a account before you came here on lionesses old site as the same name, wasnt sure how genuine you were since the closeness to pckts. But again no biggies.
 
I dont like to waste my time either, the exposing and exploiting of pckts was a need to be done thing, other wise we wouldnt have the data we have now and the tiger side would be flooded with repeats, fakes and more stuff...if no one adresses it, they'll think they can get away with it. Ive seen this far before I actually started to salvage the things that was fastly pushed aside. Bold champ, lioness08, asad ect have pckts playing his game, bold them was too passive an look where it lead them? hacked sites...an asad them have to put up with someone who is not interested in the truth and will say anything and make up anything...no one ever adressed him with what he was, hence they were an still are being character assisnated by him...did he ever come here and try to heckle me? Yup, only once...as big bad brody, but then I unlike the lot, I exposed him and made an example of him, he doesnt have it in him to post against me, yet he has 100s of aliases an still post against the former yuku guys or anyone he thinks h can lie too...thats because we both know what he is and cannot achieve when it comes to being....truthful.
 
Many of the lion fans that had awesome information in both quality and quanity was discouraged by pckts back on yuku, they aquited posting newer info, an data had been stoped growing, both on that part and by him hacking accounts to erase post and hacking entire sites so all the data is lost...again, that speaks volumes in both how much of a loser that guy is, and how much the truth is forthtelling an forthcoming. But as for this site an the info that resides here so far, is kinda old at this point, no grand amount of new info has been updated nor can I organize that much, I still havnt utilized a good computer, this one is too out dated and is restricted to many search places...once I do utilize a good one I was going to see about getting to a proper forum like the old yuku and unite the old team, that way there is team work into growing and trying to more fully answer the long debated question, I know alot are busy, and so am I...but we'll eventually get there, I am more of a person who likes quality information than having to read through hundreds of paes of nothing that can be passed on in the historics means. 
 
But anyways, in time I think we'll get it.
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Posts: 26 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2015 at 16:06
Yeah, something like this happened when I started to read the thread in Carnivora. So much pages, and many times a lot of repetition.
But anyway, from my part I have some folders with info on both sides, and another one for images and artifacts. It's just for personal amusement, but at least helps me to be aware of where I'm standing.
Not so long ago, I didn't even liked male lions. I know it sounds contyradicting, considering the name I chose, but really, I didn't like them. I thought they were lazy, they didn't hunt and, being a loner myself, I thought they were weaker than other big cats, considering they need their brothers to be more successful.
That changed the first time I watched a fight between lions. It was two against one, the two Mapogos killing the 5th Majingilane(ironically).
That gave me goosebumps, and I started to read and read and readabout male lions, especially from wildlife blogs like londolozi, etc.
I learned a lot and then came the forums discussing the lion vs tiger thing. And here I am.
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Cool, as for me, I like both the same...an yeah...I think everything of the basics has been covered, its not that I dont wanna hear it any more, is just that its not in a great range, to me: length, height, limb size, canine size, ect have no more great value of getting more an more data on, how many skull sizes would you need to examine when both are so close? Again its like comparing a black guy vs a white guy, neither will have vast differences, would one really compare who'd win of W vs B and analyze all these similar things noted? No. I think there should be a guide-line to follow, this helps of moving on to things that are more essential.                  
 
Those things are just the need to know basics, they arnt the ones that will answer the question of who'd win, the thing that will help answer who'd win would be as stated, historical accounts, artifacts and experts opinions upon observation or experince...I enjoy reading and viewing mostly everyones posts on them, but am more specific with what is the determining factors. I think it is useless to compare animals when they arnt in the same shot and have a base factor in comparison...again what would that prove, posting a single or handfull of photos of what seems to be a buff tiger and then post what isnt buff lions or vice versa...you can do that all day, its still not gona change what will happen in a fight, thats why I try to stick to historical accounts, I take them for what it is...nothing more, nothing less. I would rather read a 100 accounts of conflicts between the two than look at cherry picked 100 photos of comparing who could be more buff.
 
                                                                           
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Posts: 7392 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2015 at 18:33
But what I wanna know is it true that 'big kitties' will eat certain fruits....youtube video claims they will.... but don't use that as it locks your system..ie buggy.

Dogs and wolves and coyotes I've been told will do that.

I wont rest easy till the truth is known eh.
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Posts: 320 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2015 at 22:29
CV it si my understanding that as true carnivores cats lack the dentition & complex gut necessary to 
manage an omnivorous diet.. & some vegetable items are also toxic for them..

Housecats fed commercial food will choose to (clumsily ) eat grass though, & cats which catch live prey will often consume the  animals guts - including partly digested vegetable food contents therein.

I read that cats do not recognise the taste of sweet things, but perhaps the stinky rotting
flesh smell of durian-type fruit is attractive to them?
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Posts: 7392 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2015 at 22:41
fair enough as my vet friends same much the same however they do report that if fed such items it would casue indigestion and possible kidney damage in d. cats. depending on the type fruit.

and possibly the same for large ones.

curious is all as this spat of vids shoing large carnivores, tigers iirc, eating watermelons didn't seem kosher...otoh, I suppose ya can train the animal to eat anything.

tho i'm no sme here..


my interps since youth is they remain carnivores essentially solely. and no the thread was not a joke.

Thxs for the response.
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So now you realize male lions are not lazy, ok?  Can you admit that the lion has more fight experience then the tiger?  Lions can get in as many as 20 real fights in their life time not including practice fights and fights with other pride members for food or dominance.  Tigers can have as many as 1 to 3 real fights in their life time, many not even serious.  That info comes from a field zoologist with over 20 years of experience. You talked about lions looking thinner, or tigers having large shoulders.  Lions are often shorter in length, sometimes up to a foot shorter, Ive personally seen this in many specimens, the lion has a design that is often compact, yet their frame can be exceptional stout and solid, a frame designed for fighting and getting hit.  Check out the chest on this lion, hes about 9 years old, with arthritis,

https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11116536_831462356934125_2729345898742340420_n.jpg?oh=2fced7542b9cc4739f0e2b991ce08585&oe=55F56F0A







Originally posted by Majingilane

Yeah, something like this happened when I started to read the thread in Carnivora. So much pages, and many times a lot of repetition.
But anyway, from my part I have some folders with info on both sides, and another one for images and artifacts. It's just for personal amusement, but at least helps me to be aware of where I'm standing.
Not so long ago, I didn't even liked male lions. I know it sounds contyradicting, considering the name I chose, but really, I didn't like them. I thought they were lazy, they didn't hunt and, being a loner myself, I thought they were weaker than other big cats, considering they need their brothers to be more successful.
That changed the first time I watched a fight between lions. It was two against one, the two Mapogos killing the 5th Majingilane(ironically).
That gave me goosebumps, and I started to read and read and readabout male lions, especially from wildlife blogs like londolozi, etc.
I learned a lot and then came the forums discussing the lion vs tiger thing. And here I am.


Edited by Lion crest - 12-Jun-2015 at 13:12
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That atleast is another account in india, which makes the locations of asiatic lions defeating/killing tigers are...
 
Argatala, Jamnagar, Nagpur, Nadankanan, Surat, Gangis river, parripatu, bangalore, a princes palace mentioned by kailash, the travelers one, an Jam sahib...and if we can find out where bold champs book scan comes from as of the location, we can jot down the name, also. Thats pretty epic, would be interesting if we could ever contact singh hari shanka, sudip mitra or others who wrote in there books of it is unclear who won, I'm pretty sure, they havent heard of those lions killing tigers, mostly because all of it was on english books and only accessible now with newspaper archives.
 
I think by telling and showing them that, they will give a more definitive answer, plus they might start looking too for accounts of conflicts in there own historical archives. I think fights in india were more common than we know, afterall, they both were there for atleast 2,000 years...transferring animals to america like beattys them incidents were only possible in terms of the 17-20th century, so it wont go as far back as indias fights, nor be as frequent. I think it was frequent, in the wild, pit fights and accidental fights in captivity. We dont have access to news and book archives in india mainly because we cant read/write in indian languages/dialect.
 
 
What is this!
 
The Death of Cain: After the Manner, and As a Sequel to the Death of Abel
Contributor(s): Collyer, Mary

View larger image

 ISBN: 1432649477     ISBN-13: 9781432649470
Binding Type: Paperback

Additional Information
Book type: Non-Fiction
Physical Information: 140 pages
 
Non-fiction.....heres the story:
 
 
No sooner was Cain got into the field, which lay on the borders of the forest, than he was agitated by the rustling of the bay trees, which covered a large plot; his curiosty led him to draw near, when he beheld with terror a furious combat between two dreadful beasts of prey. A tigress robb'd of her young by the lions voracious appetite, had in fact caught the potent chief ragaling on the last limb; she in furious rage assail'd the murderer of the whelps. The fierce lion was couching on the spot he had done the deed, when thus attack'd, and for a moment prepar'd not for defence, not being accustom'd to the assault of any animal that ranges in the desert. Whislt the wild rage of the tigress was thus exceris'd in tearing the lions ear, her mate the tiger approuch'd the parties, and without enquiry, in consort with his female, join'd the fight! The royal brute was rous'd to full excertion of his mighty strength to be a match for his assailiants.
 
Cain saw his danger. and fled aside to avoid the fierce combatants, whose roarings made the woods and vallies ring. The fight was desperate, and long was doughtful; the lion at length prevail'd and the victor stood to see these beasts expire beneath his paw, who had lost their lives in defending their lawful right! I know not, continued he. Scarecley had he ended these words, when the lion, through loss of blood fell down lifeless on the spot where he had won the battle.
 
 
A lion killed 3 tigers in the wild, two adults... a female, a cub and a male. IN---CREDIBLE!
 
There are instances when male Tigers have been killed by female while approaching very near the cubs.
 
The most convincing proof of this gratifying change was that a tigress, feeling hungry in the night, killed a tiger
 
Heres another one of Clyde beatty, in 1955:
 
This lion has killed two tigers and fought with many other cats
 
 
Looks like a russian book states:
 
A big brown bear killed a male tiger
 
 


Edited by Prime - 13-Jun-2015 at 05:34
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All these accounts show that the male tiger is a complete disaster as a fighter. He loses frequently against tigresses, both male and female leopards, brown bears, etc.

Much of these so many accounts are and have been largely concealed in pro-tiger forums such as Carnivora or Yuku.

I disagree on your opinion about pckts and the rest of presumably more moderate and fair tiger-fans such as Perrault or Peter (I would call these two the pay-per-view tiger-fans). It is not that they do not mind about the truth concerning the eventual winner: lion or tiger. They already know that this winner is by far the male lion (the same happens regarding the lion vs. bear debate). What they try to do is to twist facts and convince the outsiders that the tiger is the winner, even resorting to misinforming, creating fake accounts, spreading lies in the net, editing vids, etc. in a sort of propaganda war where some act as though some fictional Korean government were behind paying money to promote its nationalistic symbols... Well, who knows if this responds to simple fanaticism or there is something else behind.
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Posts: 26 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2015 at 14:24
Originally posted by Lion crest

So now you realize male lions are not lazy, ok?  Can you admit that the lion has more fight experience then the tiger?  Lions can get in as many as 20 real fights in their life time not including practice fights and fights with other pride members for food or dominance.  Tigers can have as many as 1 to 3 real fights in their life time, many not even serious.  That info comes from a field zoologist with over 20 years of experience.

20 real fights? That's not true. Consider the Majingilane males. They fought against the Mapogo males twice. Two Mapogo dead. They fought against the Selati males twice(one of them was against one really young male so I don't really count it). Two Selati dead. And they fought 3 vs 1 against a young Sand river male, but they didn't kill him. And that's it.
So at best, maybe 4 or 5 real, serious fights, and that is a big number. And in one of those fights the lion gets killed. So that is not much different than in tigers.

As for male lions, they ARE lazy jaja. And that's ok. My only problem with that is when they were portrayed as if only the females did the hunting and "all the work" which is of course a lie that is still often repeated. Once I learne how good hunters they really are, they can be as lazy as they want.
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Catlion, I agree...atleast pckts them would know who really wins, or else why the need to make stuff up, constantly lie, and fabricate accounts that they themselves made up? Because...they...know. As for peter them, they just sound undecided with a slight bias, but am sure if we go account for account, an experts opinions for experts opinions they know as well they wont be able to match it. But I'd like to see them try anyway...an yeah, that is probably the biggest problem, if you are truthfully looking for who wins, why dont they post both sides of who won, why is it only ever just tiger accounts and then 1 or 2 lion accounts than ignore the 100's of rest? Thats BS, and is driven by bias.
 
Majingilane.... the mapogos have killed 100's of lions, name one tiger that got into that many fights, not everything is known by the majingis, and what you compare would be the extreme for tigers, 5 would be its max, siberian tigers for one was recorded of 51 of them to have yielded only 1 fight, with confirmed only one scaring from fights, that means 49 of them have no fighting experince...most tigers wont go a day in a fight other than mating seasons an territory disputes, not a single day other wise...thats impossible for lions, isn't there photos of even the mapogos sparing with each other, or the majingis sparing with there own brothers? The fight doesnt have to draw blood and injuries or lead to kills to improve fighting skill, boxers train with their coaches and training parnters before big fights, and none are kill scenarios (even tyson never killed anyone, are you gona say tyson is a poor fighter?)...yet they need that to be kept game and conditioned...lions condition and train because they have other lions to train with, who is a solitary tiger suppose to train with? That means tigers fighting are based soley on instincts, not skill.
 
Yes the accounts of tigresses, lionesses and leopardesses killing male tigers shows highly that the lions mane is one of the biggest reasons why he would win a fight against a tiger...no such female any-predator has killed a male lion specifically with a bite or slash to the throat. Even dogs have killed tigers by biteing the throat, so its not so much the weapons like how big the fangs are, how hard the bite is, its the opportunity...no predator would have a grand opportunity biting a lions neck in a fair fight not only because of the lions huge mane, but because the lion also incorperates head movement as well, those two combined make it almost impossible for any animal to get at the trachea, getting at the neck and other placements is already difficult, the neck isnt specifically that lethal, its the trachea that can end the fight quickly. As for lazyness, try killing a bull giraffe by your self than fighting off 30 hyenas and then spar with one of your comrades or kill a rival, I'm pretty sure you'd be tired too, unlike tigers who are just ever active and ever running around the jungle trying to keep alive an away from wild dogs. lol
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Posts: 26 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2015 at 16:12
I'm aware of that, that's why I especified that I was talking about serious fights, fights to the death.
As for the fights between brothers, yes, lions of course will have more experience in that because they are social animals. However, during these fights they change the way they fight, targetting more the face than anything because of course they don't really want to hurt his coalition partner, so this fights end really quickly. The fight between Majingis caught on tape lasted 10 seconds,then they ran back to their females so there you have it. A similar pattern goes in all the one vs one that go around in youtube. Few are over a minute, so this shows that when fighting one on one, they don't fight seriously, only to establish dominance.
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It doesnt matter what they are trying to establish, they are fighting/training...it doesnt matter what equipment you train with, speed bag, punching bag, teather bag, the fact is, you are training with it, and will have more skill developed than someone who never did do that. You even stated:
 
However, during these fights they change the way they fight, targetting more the face than anything
 
Which the face is basically the head area, tigers dont have a specific place other than the throat, in means of biteing, or target the belly with their hind legs (they throw blows to blind the vision momentarily just to get to the neck)...other than that, tigers dont have any specifics to do with one area...lions do, they target almost everything at the head, as I stated numerous times lions are head hunters. And with good reason, they poses bigger, heavier, stronger an longer front limbs. Comparing how thick it (which you or anyone have no proof on) does what exactly in terms striking? Is that how fighting promoters around the world pick canidates for champion ship boxing material, by measuring who has the biggest forearms? lol No...they watch them spar an see if there is any skill there. You cant compare skill and strength by looking at hundreds of buff photos, but you can compare them with actual accounts of them using their paws as weapons:
 
 
 
A small list of feats comparing who has harder striking strength, in this we do not compare mythos like assumed, or uses the words, probably, could, would, should, maybe, perhaps, ...only genuine first hand accounts can be acceptable in terms a scientific  fact.....
 
Personally. I am more afraid of a lions paws than I am of his jaws. Talk about uppercuts, left hooks and that sort of prize-fighting fancy shots! A lion is wonderfully clever and he does it without gloves. A lions claws take hold like a fish hook. A tiger or leopard gives with the paws a side slash that cuts like a knife.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=861&dat=18991027&id=9kJSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uzUNAAAAIBAJ&pg=831,1149737&hl=en

(From smallest animals to biggest in order of the lions feats)
 
Lion hits dog so hard the brains and guts come flying out:

Lion breaks female hyenas back with one blow:

one of his eyes fell out of its socket as the offended lion landed a lightning blow with his powerful paw on the hyena's jaw.
~Dr. Leisure, 1993 - Social Science - 135 pages
https://www.google.com/search?q=one+of+his+eyes+fell+out+of+its+socket+as+the+offended+lion+landed+a+lightning+blow+with+his+powerful+paw+on+the+hyena%27s+jaw.&tbm=bks&oq=one+of+his+eyes+fell+out+of+its+socket+as+the+offended+lion+landed+a+lightning+blow+with+his+powerful+paw+on+the+hyena%27s+jaw.&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...16150.16150.0.16708.1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.msedr...0...1ac..34.heirloom-serp..1.0.0.CzLqEDrM2es

The Warden heard a hyena calling very near his house one night, and ... One of the hyenas, engrossed in the feast and slower to retreat than his fellows, was killed by a single blow from a lion's paw.
~Window onto wilderness Anthony Cullen - ý1969 - Snippet view
q=The+Warden+heard+a+hyena+calling+very+near+his+house+one+night%2C+and+...+One+of+the+hyenas%2C+engrossed+in+the+feast+and+slower+to+retreat+than+his+fellows%2C+was+killed+by+a+single+blow+from+a+lion%27s+paw&tbm=bks&oq=The+Warden+heard+a+hyena+calling+very+near+his+house+one+night%2C+and+...+One+of+the+hyenas%2C+engrossed+in+the+feast+and+slower+to+retreat+than+his+fellows%2C+was+killed+by+a+single+blow+from+a+lion%27s+paw&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...50395.52391.0.52653.2.2.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..2.0.0.4Ll05pTb98w

One of three lions Jones, lulu and dickens...dickens kills a hyena:

Dickins easily killed a sturdy hyena with a single blow of his great front paw.
~Mervyn Cowie - ý1961 - fly vulture
https://www.google.com/search?q=Dickins+easily+killed+a+sturdy+hyena+with+a+single+blow+of+his+great+front&tbm=bks&oq=Dickins+easily+killed+a+sturdy+hyena+with+a+single+blow+of+his+great+front&gs_l=heirloom-serp.12...0.0.0.5373.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.msedr...0...1ac..34.heirloom-serp..0.0.0.vd-FipImwbI

Lioness kills hyena:

the cub into safety, Umnandi literally fell upon the hyena, and with one blow of her great paw blotted him out of existence.
~The national review 1926
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+cub+into+safety%2C+Umnandi+literally+fell++upon+the+hyena%2C+and+with+one+blow+of+her+great+paw+blotted+him+out+of+existence.&tbm=bks&oq=the+cub+into+safety%2C+Umnandi+literally+fell++upon+the+hyena%2C+and+with+one+blow+of+her+great+paw+blotted+him+out+of+existence.&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...340883.340883.0.341172.1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.msedr...0...1ac..34.heirloom-serp..1.0.0.br79LNBzHzI

Later the camera moved to show that the lion had, in fact, with one swipe of his
paw, hit one of the hyenas and broken its back.
~The Two-Minute Drill to Manhood: A Proven Game Plan for ...John Croyle - ý2013 -
https://www.google.com/search?q=Later+the+camera+moved+to+show+that+the+lion+had%2C+in+fact%2C+with+one+swipe+of+his+&tbm=bks&oq=Later+the+camera+moved+to+show+that+the+lion+had%2C+in+fact%2C+with+one+swipe+of+his+&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...58514.58514.0.58862.1.1.0.0.0.0.201.201.2-1.1.0.msedr...0...1ac..34.heirloom-serp..1.0.0.pNvFdVnbnfk

Lion breaks leopards back with one blow:

Lions paw blow flys man 15 feet, and kills another with one blow:
Stone flew 15 feet through the air, while the lion sprang to its feet and made off. A native bearer ran up. The lion killed him with one blow of its paw
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/30989359/

Lion kills female jaguar with a few blows from the paw:

Lion hits lioness all the way across the cage with one blow of the paw:
A full grown lioness is a large animal, and more than proportionately heavy; yet I once saw a lion, with the very slightest imaginable wave of his paw, dash his mate from the corner of the cage, where she was rearing against the bars, and send her sprawling on her back as if she had been a little lamb
http://books.google.com/books?id=RHIVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA55&dq=african+lions+paw+blow&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SCx_U_GfFsTdoAS9oYDgDg&ved=0CA4Q6AEwBDgU

Lion kills siberian tigress with a blow from the paw breaking its back:

Lion breaks another male lions back with one blow of the paw:
broke his rival's back with one swipe of his paw during a performance yesterday. Several hundred persons, including many children were witnesses to the killing.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=19560513&id=4GNgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9HENAAAAIBAJ&pg=5191,2470922&hl=en

Lion crushes tigers skull with a blow from the paw:
They grappled and rolled and roared and bit each other. And finally in a split second the tiger dropped motionlessly to the ground. Far too quick for the eye to see, but just at the right moment, this lion, delivered a well-timed blow to the side of the tigers head, and crushed his skull. The lion is a mighty beast.
http://www.google.com/search?ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&source=hp&q=like+Judy+and+I+were+probably+discussing+this+at+dinner+last+evening.+%5Blaughter%5D+Seriously%2C+have+you+ever+wondered+what+would+happen+if+a+lion+and+a+tiger+actually+got+in+a+fight%3F&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1

Lion kills zebra with one blow of the paw:
A lion can kill a zebra with one blow of its sledge-hammer paw. An incident was observd where a zebra was dead in half a second. A hunter who performed an autopsy found one lethal blow had dislocated the zebras neck.
http://www.rhinoresourcecenter.com/pdf_files/129/1299889747.pdf

A traveller in South Africa once saw a magnificent male lion strike down and kill a
zebra with a single blow of his huge fore paw. Instead of tearing it in pieces he
stood beside the carcase waving his tail, raised his head to look around, and ...
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22A+traveller+in+South+Africa+once+saw+a+magnificent+male+lion+strike+down+and+kill+a+zebra%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22A+traveller+in+South+Africa+once+saw+a+magnificent+male+lion+strike+down+and+kill+a+zebra%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...3120.9927.0.10048.8.1.0.7.0.0.462.462.4-1.1.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..8.0.0.SpOUWeMWsfo

he came up to the zebra, he made a sudden spring and with his right paw
struck the animal a terrific blow on the neck. The zebra dropped instantly. The
lion did not renew the attack. He walked a little distance away and then stood
there
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22zebra%2C+he+made+a+sudden+spring+and+with+his+right+paw+struck+the+animal+a+terrific+blow+on+the+neck%22+&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22zebra%2C+he+made+a+sudden+spring+and+with+his+right+paw+struck+the+animal+a+terrific+blow+on+the+neck%22+&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...3920.4318.0.4505.2.2.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..2.0.0.lHxaVFvv20U

As he reached the zebra the younger lion swung around with a savage snarl and
with one terrific blow of his paw sent the old fellow tumbling end over end at least
ten feet out in the grass.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=%22a+savage+snarl+and+with+one+terrific+blow+of+his+paw+sent%22

in his absorbing account of the events around a water-hole which he witnessed
one night from a thorn-shelter or boma, that a lion struck down a zebra by a blow
on the neck. ... It was gravely asserted that the lion killed the oxen with his paw
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22one+night+from+a+thorn-shelter+or+boma%2C+that+a+lion+struck+down+a+zebra+by+a+blow%22+It+was+gravely+asserted+that+the+lion+killed+the+oxen+with+his+paw&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22one+night+from+a+thorn-shelter+or+boma%2C+that+a+lion+struck+down+a+zebra+by+a+blow%22+It+was+gravely+asserted+that+the+lion+killed+the+oxen+with+his+paw&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...16031.17712.0.17985.2.1.0.1.0.0.184.184.0j1.1.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..2.0.0.TRWmXQWKvsU

But the lion crouched on in the position he had formerly adopted before leaping
on to a zebra and dislocating its neck with one swift blow of his paw. When the
time came it was all done with the utmost simplicity, with no difficulty and without
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22to+a+zebra+and+dislocating+its+neck+with+one+swift+blow+of+his+paw.%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=%22to+a+zebra+and+dislocating+its+neck+with+one+swift+blow+of+his+paw.%22&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...16448.18110.0.18461.2.2.0.0.0.0.145.286.0j2.2.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..2.0.0.WkOYdF9ZPG8

Lioness crushes black bears skull with a blow of the paw:

Lion caves in donkeys neck bones with a blow from the paw:

Lion kills horse with one blow of the paw:
'These he had endeavoured to dislodge, but, insufficiently armed, he was compelled to beat a retreat, after losing one of his horses by a single blow of a lion’s paw.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Eb0wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA94&dq=african+lions+paw+blow&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uTJ_U-uxE8P9oAT_-4CIAQ&ved=0CAgQ6AEwATiCAQ

Lion kills european brown bear with one blow of the paw:
The bear, not liking this kind of salutation, growled, and endeavoured to parry it. This made the lion angry when, with one- fell swoop, with his paw, as the story goes, he laid the bear dead at his feet.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Io5NAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA195&dq=african+lions+paw+blow+bear&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6zR_U8D1HNDdoATcioFI&ved=0CAYQ6AEwADgU

Lion breaks grizzly bears back with one blow of the paw:
A few years ago an Englishman who had hunted lions In Africa ventured, upon a visit here, to express the opinion that an African lion could whip a grizzly in fair fight. His' opinion was so warmly disputed by partisans of the grizzly that he determined to settle the matter. He brought a full grown lion to this Park and it was put into a cage'along with a grizzly. The lion at once sprang to the attack leaping upon the bear's' back and trying to dig in with claws and teeth. The grizzly sincerely shook him off. The lion again sprang and was again shaken off. A third time it was shaken off, but this time the lion, annoyed, gave it a swipe with one of its paws, and broke its back killing it with a single blow
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jq9HzcFXElMJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/1489912/+The+Iola+Register+1933++lion+fights+grizzly&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jq9HzcFXElMJ:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/1489912/+The+Iola+Register+1933++lion+fights+grizzly&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1

Lions paw blow shatters ox's back limb to peices:
But whatever the lion's object, the result of the attack was sufficiently patent, and I have never seen clearer evidence of the marvellous strength of these brutes than the terribly crushed condition of that ox. The great bones of the leg were splintered and the flesh a mass of black pulp and extravasated blood; and yet there was scarcely a claw-mark upon the skin,—all this injury had been done by the mere force
https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA405&dq=blow+%22force%22+lions+paw&ei=r8frVPeiEMfdoATOv4HIDg&id=otZp3FqL0swC&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html_text
 
As the buffalo turned, the lion gave it a single slamming blow with its paw,
dropping the buffalo instantly with a broken neck.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=%22As+the+buffalo+turned%2C+the+lion+gave+it+a+single+slamming+blow+with+its+paw%2C+%22

Lion smacks down and stuns a female eland with a blow from the paw:

Lion smacks down a male eland with a single blow of the paw:

Some visual proof:

Lioness with paw knocks over tiger:

Lion knocks out another male lion with one blow:

Lion knocks down a tiger with a blow from the paw:

Lion knocks down tiger 3 meters away with one blow:
 
 
Majingilane, how about some paw striking feats of tigers not just to show for, but to match the power and strength of the lions striking? You can compare thousands, no, millions of buff weight lifters and find them all bigger than mike tyson, better muscle definition, bulkier bodys ect, doesnt mean anything of their fighting skill compard to tyson...how does showing cherry picked tiger pictures of buff tigers suppose to compare to showing feats of lions killing other animals with their front limbs, even more spcifically with blunt force.
 
Almost every authority on comparing who can strike harder of lion and tiger, stated the lion is the stronger and more powerful...Clyde beatty (40 years and worked with 2,000 lions/tigers), everland zoo keeper Jeong sangjo, william ballintine who interviewed countless of animal keepers, a the recent trainer, hunter Samuel baker, Md Andrew howe ect. I think that trumps....wow...look at this tiger...I cherry picked, compared to this lion...I cherry picked, the tiger has so much the bigger and bulkier body, bigger arms, bigger shoulders, bigger neck. lol When you have a tiger in the same shot to compare against a prime lion, than, and only then will it mea anything...and thats only towards those two, not its species.
 


 
 


Edited by Prime - 13-Jun-2015 at 17:13
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Posts: 26 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2015 at 17:12
I can't comment about "feats of tigers" because I have little knowledge about them.
That is why I limit my comments about what I know, and that is wild lions behaviour.

Now, when you mentioned how lions strike, I remembered something said in some forum, I don't remember the name. It was about the way lions bite and the way they do it is different in some way of other big cats.
And I agree. I've seen in the few fights to the death caught on tape show the way they shake the head when fighting the rival's back, similar to how dogs fight.
‘Like night-watchmen they patrol the dark nights; marching with intent and chasing all those unwanted into the shadows...those that do not run are removed’
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Yes, lion crest was the first to note the head movements of lions, its alot more skillful and energy conserving than the tigers leaps and bounds. The tiger does this because he is afraid of getting hit, as he can only endure a little before running off or tireing out, lions stay close to their opponents as they arnt afraid of getting hit, both because of the mane will coushin the blows and lessen the lacerations to an extant, and because of the lions mentality, he is there to protect something, those who have this mentality and purpose usually go all in the fight, but since lions are accustomed to fighting frequently (redardless of seriousness or not) they developed better head movement to lessen the blows getting hit and or decrease the accuracy of his opponent.

The only feats of tigers with striking heavy blows comes from 2 accounts which literally starts off as, when I was in the jungle....when nooooo body else was around...lol or, some guy told me, some hunter told me, a friend of mine ect, with no names to drop, makes it less credible. Majority of the tiger biologist, naturalist, trainers ect state the primary function of the tigers paws is to grip, grasp and yank down his opponent, (secondary to strike), it can be seen in almost all tiger video fights, espcially the machli vs the male tiger fight, they just grab one another and try to get at the throat first, that doesnt call for much skill in a stand up fight. The tigers paws killing things are mainly from lacerations, not blunt force.
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A tiger seizes the victim with its paws and forearms, and then it precedes to bite hold of the back of the neck, or bite hold some where and bring it down like prey. You can't just hold on to a lion like this, because its going to move its neck out of the way, and bite back rapidly like a dog, mauling the tiger, and eventually waiting till it can get at the enemies throat, seeing a clear path way, not just hanging on, or lunging forward. In the Bigcage, Bobby kept lunging forward at Caesar, Caesar realized what he was doing now, and made sure he evaded ever lunge, all four of them. On the final lunge the tiger was loosing energy, and Caesar caught Bobbie by the back of the neck and crushed it instantly. Beatty sometimes showed the film privately to people to show what a great fighter the lion was.  We all have not seen that film. We also have not seen Sultan vs a wild tiger named Tommy in the bigcage.  The wild tiger tried to hang on to Sultan desperately like it was taking down prey. Sultan just maneuvered himself around till he saw a clear path way to Tommy's throat and killed him instantly.  The deaths happened so fast, they had no footage, so they had to film a 3rd fight.  The 3rd tiger was then bitten through the kidney after the hose was spraying.

As Prime mentioned the Mapogo lions have killed hundreds of lions, and Ive seen the actual link to that, he posted it a while back. The fights are serious, and many fights happen at night with each other and hyenas that is not caught on camera.

The lion can get into as many as 20 real fights in its life time, this is a life or death fight, not counting the fights for dominance or over food at the kills, sometimes those are serious too especially when young vs the father. This info comes from the zoologist with 25 years experience in the field. He was hired by lairwebs to research this topic.

Here is his quotes on this,


"My last visit to Kenya saw a coalition of 2 stalking male toms.
They were renegades of an old pride and had been ousted but were fresh out of the pride and still useful.
Both animals were horrendously littered in scar tissue about the whole head region.
A new pride with 10 females was operating in maelli maelli border and lay in long grass for zebra on a daily basis.
The 2 nomads approached the tall grass and split up.
Split up being notable.
They then attacked from 50 paces in 180 degrees of each others position.
The first male encountered a massive tom of about 480lbs. he was lead male of another pride male which was slightly smaller.
The two animals met head on and went over in a terrible bundle. The big resident tom had got the nomad in his jaws at the back of the mane and killed him.
The second male had attacked the smaller pride male and injured it on the right leg. It dragged itself along in order to fight back and then roared to the other male.
The big pride tom then appeared from nowhere and met his match.
The fight raged for 5 minutes until the nomad left blood dripping from head wounds.
A large skin flap was missing from the pride toms head.
He wandered back to the pride and glanced at his partner.
The leg was broken and torn.
Three days later that nomad returned and killed the injured male during the night. The big tom is still in charge but knows his time is short.
This is the life of the lion.
C.
________________________________________
Brown tom, extremely good reply.
I especially like your piece which suggests lions may bolster their courage by being in pairs.
The tiger has also been known to have much more brutal encounters on occasion and death has resulted.
There definitely will be a tiger out there which can kill a lion.
An especially big specimen who has just enough experience from a recent female or competitor killing would cause problems for any tom lion.
My problem is that i have to give a general opinion.
I hate being non committal or standing on the fence, and its something that i have never been accused of.
If we took ten tigers they will behave as i have portrayed for about 5 peak years.
Only 1 would climb the heights of super tiger and possibly kill one major opponent during this time.
Genghis killed a territorial male after 6 months of squabbling, avoidance, getting bolder etc.
The Genghis which finally attacked and killed had generated enough boldness from these experiences and had grown fitter and larger since entering the territory.
He may, at his peak, have given the tom lion a good run for his money.
Sadly Genghis lost his second encounter to a younger cousin which attempted to drive him out of his area when he was old.
Here this rare super tiger had fought and killed and fought and got killed which fits with your assessment.
However, I must call an edge rather than saying I do not know.
This tiger was a supreme example but had one major fight which it had won.
Some old average tom lions have had as many as 20 fights. They are often littered in scars.
I’m sure that the experience and toughness is enough to give that super tiger a good fight but do more with the average tiger."








Originally posted by Majingilane

I can't comment about "feats of tigers" because I have little knowledge about them.
That is why I limit my comments about what I know, and that is wild lions behaviour.

Now, when you mentioned how lions strike, I remembered something said in some forum, I don't remember the name. It was about the way lions bite and the way they do it is different in some way of other big cats.
And I agree. I've seen in the few fights to the death caught on tape show the way they shake the head when fighting the rival's back, similar to how dogs fight.
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Yeah its not even close, anyone can google lions in the wild and almost every pride owner or coalition of males will be just litered with scars on their faces, all ufc fighters now days have collie flower ears, or broken noses, or scared up faces, thats because they are fighters, your average person on the street doesnt have as much, just the same as the average tiger doesnt have any scarings on their faces like most lions do. You are comparing two different professions, tigers are survivalist, like bear grills, lions are fighters like tyson of the natural coture. Just because you can show me 1 or 2 fights of bear grills fighting or beating some one up, wont mean he can take on coture.
 
Yeah and lion crest, I actually seen a old footage stock web site of what seems to be bobby and caesar (which is probably where bold got the gifs from), but it was only the beggining part which is missing from the movie...its a dead silence with beatty standing with whip and chair in the center of the ring, then beatty says: Alright, let em in...then bobby climbs the pedastal...If there is more of the missing parts still in existance, it would be epic to watch the full fights...I dont think they would be like...okay lets burn the ones we cant use, they probably just put it on the side...again it would be epic if they still exist to watch.
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Posts: 320 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2015 at 18:40
Some interesting comments here lately..

I will add..

Re: "lazy" cats, all cats spend the major part of their lives asleep..
Their obligate carnivore high-energy diet allows this life-style.


Examination of the brain structure of cats shows a similarity to
primates in the areas developed/devoted to emotional-type behaviour
with evident outcomes in the range of complex vocalisations & ritualised interactions - including territorial dominance/fighting.

This latter situation even extends to de-sexed domestic cats.

I have a neutered male cat who has a pushy personality ( he'd have
been a terror - as an intact tom) & he is an avid hunter..

He is a trim 7.5kg & uses his size to defend his home territory
against all ( 'cept tom-cats, he recognises their status) by seeing off intruding dogs & feral foxes - even to killing possums close to his size , by throat bites,& disembowelling.

He was raised in a family with a Jack Russell terrier whom he also
regularly sparred with & yet dominated - if things got too intense.

He has been having a feud with another large neutered male cat recently,
& has received & inflicted - biting & clawing injuries to the head, chest & shoulder regions, but obviously knows to protect his throat.

He is utterly determined to confront his perceived enemy & if I try to
keep him inside - against his will he gets quite irritable, & will jump from a 2nd story window, even forcing the flyscreen off its mounts..

As if to demonstrate his contribution though, he did leave me part of large rat on the doorstep, - its intact face, though with everything
downstream of the front of its cranium consumed, & with the brain neatly
slurped out.

The point I am making with this?

That for cats, learned skills & personality counts for a lot..

& as has been noted, that while under the skin - lions & tigers are indeed quite similar, the long noted aspects of lion personality traits, which although clearly innate in cats...
.. are brought to the fore in lions, by evolutionary selection of those features which provide the best opportunity for continuation by genetic inheritance - by successful breeding, through pride proficiency,
including bold fighting prowess.



Edited by J.A.W. - 13-Jun-2015 at 18:43
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