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Topic ClosedLions vs. Tigers

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Poll Question: If lions and tigers were to have a deathmatch, who would win?
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lions vs. Tigers
    Posted: 13-Apr-2016 at 13:55
Originally posted by Richard Parker

Prime , I urge you to show some respect to tiger fans.<span ="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">     </span>Stop insulting us and saying our work is a charade. 


Your presence here is a charade. Your here only to troll and disrupt. This thread has become more trouble than it's worth.

I have to close this thread as a result of this garbage.

Prime, your as guilty as anyone. I've tried to work with you, but it seems you can't control your immature responses to criticism. Which is what the idiot trolls rely on. They wanted to shut this thread down and you gave them your complete co-operation.

This is not where it ends. I'm placing formal complaints with your providers. I'm also going to do everything I can to get that ridiculous wordpress site shut down permanently.

Take your meaningless childish bickering someplace else. This thread is closed and shall remain so.

I am also closing any related threads. Any new threads will be treated the same way, and the originators will be banned.










Edited by red clay - 13-Apr-2016 at 13:58
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2016 at 13:07
My stance here is pretty clear.

I have no intention of getting into silly posturing or name calling with any of the posters, Red clay is correct.

Most of the informatin presented here is from captive sources, the few that refer to wild ones are personal opinions.

That's why I post about the wild animals, because in seeing how they behave in everyday life, how they react to trouble, how they deal with their rivals, you can know them as they really are.

I've often said that I know way much more about lions than I do about tigers. And funnily enough, it takes just a bit of research, like the one I posted, to correct some of the misunderstandings that the tiger is usually subject to.

The same happens with lions.
‘Like night-watchmen they patrol the dark nights; marching with intent and chasing all those unwanted into the shadows...those that do not run are removed’
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2016 at 10:16
Prime , I urge you to show some respect to tiger fans. Stop insulting us and saying our work is a charade. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2016 at 10:12
If it is expert opinions that have the say then  Prime you should go on Yahoo forum where this safari park tiger/lion handler voiced his or her expert opinion based on their work experience.....




Well here is an expert observation based on work experience. And according to this person lions just have sex and sleep , though this person says also that lions fight one another. Well tigers do that too, as Majin showed and from the Tiger Canyon fight.




Edited by Richard Parker - 13-Apr-2016 at 11:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2016 at 10:08
Catlion, with all due respect , it is you who has your information mixed up , or shall i say fabrricated. You said this ;



In reality , it was the younger and bigger tiger that emerged victorious. So how is a bigger tiger more clumsy and weak......





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517494/Tigers-slash-claws-dramatic-fight-territory.html
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2016 at 10:04
For you Prime to accuse tiger fans' work  as poor and credible , you should start with your own work. You keep posting the dead tigress...If it wasn't for Tigris here who revealed that that was a tigress not a tiger , you would have been happy to let readers believe that the tiger was male. Same goes for Surya....Another tigress you show for your say.

So my point is Prime, someone who chooses to only post what you want people to see is corrupting information to suit your obsession with lions. Your lion is not invincible. Tigers beat lions in ancient Rome , and have done so . You try to make every account look fake and that is where the problem is. According to you and your repetitive posts there is no 50-50 . For you the lion is invincible.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2016 at 10:02
Actually Majingilane, I care about your opinion on this subject.  And thanks for that info Majin on the Kanha seson tiger sightings. 

I would like to tell the lion fans here neither Majin or I are experts but just as they voice their fan-based expert opinions here, and since this is a lion versus tiger thread, then we should be able to give our opinions as well. And now are they going to say you and I Majin are the same person? That would just be utter stupidity .

Sadly the lion fans here are not able to debate in a civil and friendly manner. they lash out . Even using female tigers as examples and documented records.

We are not experts but  someone who posts  a dead tigress as an account of a valid one on fight between lion and tiger is not an expert in my opinion. and neither is catlion who thinks bigger tigers are clumsier. The fight in everland park between a big lion and a bigger tiger, well that tiger striked fast enough to get the lion on the ground.  that's not clumsy .

Now neither you Prime or catlion are authorities  in this , and neither have you handled lions and tigers on a daily basis to be able to give expert opinions.  Your post about Surya and the German Shepherds , you made it look like the dogs were biting her when in fact they  were play fighting . Why didn't you post the whole set of pictures and link to Surya? You made it look like that was an accounted fight when it was not. Did you disclose that that was a tigress?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2016 at 23:08
Majing, nothing you state can be quantified, atleast on your perspective stance, you have no experience handling these animals, quote people that do, because you have no authority to judge which is more aggressive in general let alone against each others species...thats for people who have seen years worth of them fighting, you havent even seen a complete hour of them fighting in your entire life other then the poor staged fights on youtube, even all your buddies on wild fact combined hasent even seen an entire days worth of them in conflicts against the others species. 

So please drop the Peter/act as if you guys are some sort of experts, you guys highlight mere hunting records and biology aspects on habitation on wildfact...nothing more, you can gain absolutely no knowledge by looking at hundreds of pictures of them...In our case we quote the experts people with first hand experience, and it is not right in this stage an on to do other than that...quote the quotes...no one cares about your opinion or anyone else does on the subject...sorry catlion and Jaws, but gona have to agree with Red clay here, no need to chastize the animal or debaters especially if you arent willing to contribute with data, the facts will lay in the proof, but I do appreciate you pointing out some inconsistency which of course is always a big help, at the same time, red clay....this is a forum is about empires, and wars...blood shed and fighting...you cant expect for a forum with such the titled topic to be talking like we are discussing the the care bears here. Which is why you and centrix needs to give a little more room for criticizing as long as it is backed up with facts.

Again, Majing, I've seen your rants to Counter strike on other places...first of all...Counter strike has put in more genuine research then the entire wild fact jokes combined,. he has even talked to many experts...in person...then peter, guate, pckts or any other clown you can name there...did you not know that peter is actually the one who started the debate amongs others in yuku years ago? He pumps out this BS persona just to hide his bias, he was the one to bring in accounts, bring in experts opinions, make accusations against any data thats pro-lion or that condems any questioning his poor, unreliable, least credible hear say records that supports the tiger...Our team...Me, bold, leofwin, and counter strike...merely illuminated the original records, root documents and reliable content...so please spare me this run around the donkeys ass as you have with counter strike on his profile, hes actually right, you dont favor the lion on basis of you thinking they need the help, ummmmm almost a hundred accounts of 1 on 1s had the lion dominate the tiger, with records of single lions killing by count more larger things than tigers do in the wild...the absolutely only reason why Peter banned Counter strike is because the facts out weighs his opinions, have you seen his premiere league not just on wild fact but on yuku? Its more opinions than records, entire pages about simple contradiction is given by him. 

He chastised Beatty without even knowing anything about him, only because Clyde beatty is the ultimate proof that lions dominated tigers, dont give me this Bullshit, I seen ths stuff on yuku before you even came to this topic and seen peter even say not a single male tiger was killed under beattys watch, its probably still there....lol...beatty has 40 years worth observation....worked with 2,000+ lions and tigers...seen first hand fights and killings...worked with both captive and wild specimens,  and had 56 tigers killed by lions with less than 4 lions killed by tigers on record...this is the only reason why he disliked beatty because it went against his bias views...not even knowing beatty once favored the tiger, but if you were a trainer and you kept seeing tigers being killed by lions, wouldnt your opinion change? You do know peter was once on carnivora toting out how tigers would lay waste to lions, pumped out pages of how a tiger would beat a lion on yuku...so dont tell me hes some sort of white knight... Give me a break, beatty wanst the only mix animal trainer that lost tigers to lions to up hold peters claims, over 25 trainers have statements of losing more than several tigers to lions...so stop the charade, instead of peter saying hes has talked to soooooo much trainers and experts, how about he starts naming them and giving out their contact info, since Counter strike has the people in his video recorded talked too and has their emails too.

This is just from Clyde beatty, a guy who worked with using wild bred animals:

1928 Lion named Prince killed a tigress trudy saving beattys life
1929 Lion named Nero Killed a tiger named Pasha saving his life
1930 A gang fight erupted in the result of 3 tigers killed by lions
1931 A Lion named duke and a lioness killed a tigress Snip and a tiger
1932 A lion named sammy killed a lioness
1933 A lion named Sultan killed a tiger name Tommy
1933 A lion named Caesar killed a tiger named Bobby
1933 A fight staged for the film big cage, a lion killed a tiger
1933 Two more tigers were killed in gang fights
1934 Accidental fights in performances were used for the lost jungle, a tigress nelly was killed by a lion
1934 The same lion Caesar killed two tigers and was taken out of the act
1935 Lion named detroit kills 3 tigresses, Alice, empress and slilka
1936 Beatty mentions in his long career he has 25 tigers killed by lions accidentally
1936 A lion named Boss tweeds fought and killed 3 bengal tigers at once
1936 Clyde mentions a lion killed a tiger named Poona
1937 Clydes wife Harriet witnesses a lion kill a tiger in his act.
1938 A lion named Memphis kills a tigress named Sehka
1947 Two lions Tarzan and Henry kills a tiger named Toona
1951 Another lion named prince, killed 3 tigresses and two tigers, Rosie, slieka 2, and sheba
1951 Clyde states 50 tigers were killed by lions in his 40 year career so far
1953 Two lions kill a bengal tiger in beattys act
1954 A lion named France killed two tigers
1957 His third lion named Caesar kills 2 tigers

Beatty was a showman, not a roman arena style underground fight arranger, Terrell, Nelson, Hoover, bostocks, hagenbecks and many more have identical incidents happening so no need to accuse beatty of anything other than what he was, since for one he states over 100 times his love, care and bonding with his tigers and gives them due credit to their fighting attributes as he saw it, it wasnt his fault tigers flop as the verdict against lions when in the same arena, beatty even don'd his own name in all of his films, and personified who he was as a human:

So cut the bullshit, you and wild fact members only character assassinate...only...because he goes against your retarded views that the bigger animal 100% of the time always wins, which newer info shows there are many anatomical differences, and the tiger is sure as hell aint the taller at the shoulder and head nor is consistent with its weight. 

Show me one...no, show me all captive records in history of a tiger killing a lion beating Clyde beattys past life history? Bet you cant, no need for this tip toe around the truth that these are captivity when all wild fact members like peter has ever used a wild lion killed by a tiger to move an inch to proving your cases.

Stop portending to be an expert, when none of you guys are, peter is a joke who hides behind his agenda. Hence you see accounts from pckts the low life fabricator posting tigers killing lions on wild fact,  guate posting the gwailor accounts, yet no lion killing tiger account is ever allowed there and already has been posted by counter strike, yet its speedily erased and character assassinated...hmmm. Dont go putting words in others mouths or extending fabrications from wild fact...Hobi, final 16??? Where did Jeong sangjop or yiyoung phil...ever say the tigers dominated any of the lions? We have their testimonials and links, wheres yours? Let me guess... blogs, wild fact members and out of thin air yet again? There is a combined over 30 fabricated, photo shop and made out of thin air accounts made exclusively and only by the tiger siders...show me a single account counter strike, bold, leof, or my self to have faked an account? Thats right, everything is genuine, even the artifacts, we faked not one of them, if you wanna say they arent real, then hey dont believe them, stay in your simplistic minds of thinking by providing bullshit records of lengths and weights, that you can prove the tiger is the more dominant cat.

You can get every weight documentation on the planet, you still wont move an inch closer in proving the tiger is superior overall. Yet theres video that trumps all text weights in all of existence which can be edited, and already showed a lion being weighed heavier than a tiger...why would I care less for pieces of paper from anyone, hunter, scientist ect when anyone can just email zoos, circuses or animal reserves to get live video weighed? What we see with our own two eyes is the highest credibility that trumps everything.
------------------------------

You can even tell Guate I said to wake up and stop with the BS...everything he spews out about the indian lion is 100% false, even to his self proclaimed experts like Valmik thapar, Thapar is not a biologist nor a historian, hes a anthropologist who fancys the tiger, yeah he trys to save tigers, big whoop...so does millions of conservationist in india do...yet instead of being truthful, he has to belittle the lions presence and history and mock the lion just because he thinks a bigger tiger would destroy a lion...ha ha ha, some science hes got there...nothing he states holds a candle in the light of the facts:


https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=55ec913a26&view=att&th=15398758c5d72f93&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saddbat=ANGjdJ8tk4oUxjfg32eeyme-L3HNUKidmEpZa3uznK55ACIuXdeCxbxHpn7Ct_om05EgyK_n8NzSEe8K5W-RokdjB6RPd2l2u3d8vEgdAxV8HInWhZfShYtBhknNKYpTlX7xvwYExF8d7WcaN290jIJLrk0F4XLKwuOGefkAYvkekxeFZkorCKh58De-h1mI0Ad1ba8YdxFfRogH_DIHY78NK90ljvfDKNfusyhHQzFwJ6VsEMPG4-iRCqKiexxHyMwPcF42hYOA7MSDx-HNOlfCjQWpdMP0l-siWg-23VOnBADyVjRYaoVhgALiU7g_-V_l_CQd4dlKHS573Vl48rhykOpln7Vg0-TWl4HLtg4QSrHO2AY7Ml_fze3yrSK9fA_zXhhmB9MdITeIw5HDI3bTv-57PCwQ2v7X6NeMsPM_PvZpwfvGgrWCcRi9wW2ZnYSAeqR0foFRUVAXZcyIxG1148nY4Pej2Xr6OFAeEy3paGY6yXuZtCLr34pSRFZ4SqUl6lfDMDzdE8q8A_gAJ1i_9CMsWaiugVv8SLe9M4qMGAX7EYHNySgGCgYshX3nnoYdEg2wZmlzqUxT74s8UA90ZySe_fs2E6-gpRQ5R8gkEgAZNG4NwdLwV_aavqT3X6pZOw1KKyNG8k7oUrMN


https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=55ec913a26&view=att&th=15398758c5d72f93&attid=0.3&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&sadnir=1&saddbat=ANGjdJ8mE_PfbTqXT-1dsTvQGe9GeRGfow9BUR4hA2-8BhTxg8ra_4mcLpGKDwf-d-jdWJnLQPtTVXoNyPcNFmXylyb49c1atxkH2uK52IDlnVjSCOI-jZb0CNy4aOS1DVe6jc5Tslz7x3IHxQaAx5k81rO9V16nhZgft4O1AS-LDG0BLUmVX7OYSW5xtDiYMp0TyhmTRZgtX0m-Nwybz4vh8svnkuxNRr4x8J3sAs4V9m5QmEg6GSWMHUos8AndtDSIUrVKOgFWGvug4KgK_MFvr9IvB2qpeYJI-u5lbSTXBXjKUy8LEh0RYNOIitMPlXAx_aQaGY7w0NQhY4vSa3C8VU6yVJyiqZnvhO6QW9oULOFtsBNG6RYe_RqI39Xizi-zk5FE8y3VXKzCX1sGvBWZxG42epPPh-TQQVGhwtKPb3JJ8LA-k44uap0Eub1k7rhRwGVrOefp3TdON3IxqJYYggxrr8u2EwbPrFVruI3YOUwnfg0wbnivQsgzZL_yyIMBFvYvL7o2Fg1bQraBToqdCVUbr_mWXPRDgmYP4lflYZ77UIjTy3AKzqQoePicTfOR_RWyoipT_YHLaKd1wbZDveQ8uy5cNyGCJu7fj_Cd_PIHSmd28dlfyNdotYJHhdR0KomRxSounDgNH1fh

lol just like all tiger fans who try to retort the lions presence, lying out their ass...Thapar said Jahangir hunted not a single lion, yet there are records of that single person wiping out over 86 of them, with more than 1,000 lions killed by just 5 sources, let alone an entire century, let alone an entire 2,000 years, let alone all the libraries in india he has never checked. His entire book exotic aliens is a joke. He fits the peter/pckts view of erasing things thats pro lion in order to make the inferior the superior.

:



These dont look like no cubs tigers. They stretch up all the way to the ceiling and floor.

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/gigant...ster-builders/


a giant lion that attacked the tigers and put them to flight."
http://www.printsofjapan.com/Toyokun...ki_on_Lion.htm


attacked the tigers and made them turn tail.
http://writeantiques.com/antique-dog...ou-to-collect/

Japanese artifact


Hmmm sounds quite similar to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcYXLR_QyGE







:


It took me a year and a half to get a permit to explore the entire Gir Forest—and no time at all to see why these lions became symbols of royalty and greatness. A tiger will slink through the forest unseen, but a lion stands its ground, curious and unafraid—lionhearted. 
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0106/feature3/

90% of all of wiki is twisted and fabricated, the so call opinion is based off of young lions, so is the black pool:

Most dont include the age:


But if you look through the same account, some do:


This is repeated on almost every tiger winning source, first numerous later articles dub the tiger the king, states the tiger always won in every instance, cites it, but then the originals dont say or show anything grand of a sort, a young lion is nothing compared to a fully maned one. So far almost every account Ive seen of a tiger winning was against a young lion or lioness via by its original source, nothing on wiki like sites are from their original or root source, just others covering it and twisting it.

Much like the wiki glasgow one, the person says a tiger would win 100/100 yet when we look at the account again, the lion involved was maneless via either young or female:

This is the kinda crap wildfact members pump out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ERNZLal0ro 


And heres the real source that said they were mating and produced one of the rare hybrid off springs: 
 

http://cryptozoologie.xf.cz/4_selmy/leopon.htm 

Counter strike even presented both sides of the coin on his site, almost no records of tigers killing male lions of first hand accounts exist, just alledged ones, can you guys show a single photo of the winner or loser of any record a tiger has beaten a lion?

France:





Prince:



Leo:



Nero america:


Nero the lion had killed the feline tiger Pasha, in saving Beatty's life. The fight lasted twenty-five ...
https://www.google.com/search?q=Nero...a=N&gws_rd=ssl

Caesar one 1933:



"Clyde Beatty. among other famous trainers, has recorded some of them. He tells of one huge lion, named Caesar, who, from his position at the top of a pyramid formed in the act by the caged cats, twice sprang upon tigers, killing each one almost instantly. The audience loved it, but tigers are expensive so Caesar had to be taken out of the show."http://books.google.com/books?id=pzl...=0CDMQ6AEwAzgU

Caesar 2 1957:

Clyde Beatty, world's greatest wild animal trainer, seems to be having trouble with "Caesar," the tiger killing lion. Beatty is insistent but Caesar continues to refuse with lts magnificent display of dental equipment. The Beatty wild animal display is' one of the many thrillers to be seen with the Clyde Beatty Circus, coming to Lebanon on Tuesday 

~Lebanon Daily News 12 March 1957 › Page 15 

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/5402584/


Nero australia:





Tarzan and henry


Two sulking Nubian lions brought a graudge up to date when they waylaid and killed a bcngal tiger in an ear-splitting fight that turned Clyde Beatty's animal cage into a bloody arena at the Shrine circus here tonight. Poona, a 13-year-old tiger, fought-'back valiantly but went down under the savage attack of Tarzan and Henry
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/15443366/

Wallace:

Then Ramsey, the Bengal tiger, crouched and leaped. Wallace reared up to meet him. He caught the tiger full in the throat, held him almost in midair for an instant, dashed him back against the pedestals. There was a crash of falling wood; the tiger sprang up against the bars, circled the cage, roaring and lashing, crouched again again as if to spring. But he did not spring. Nor did Chita. For Wallace, he whose ancestors had been undisputed emperors of jungles and marsh lands, Wallace — the sullen old lion — stood mighty guard over the man who loved him, who had cared for him in sickness and health. His mane was distended into a great flare of defiance They knew him for what he was -- the king. And so they snarled and crouched until prodded back into the traveling cages. Then we tried to prod Wallace away from the still body of the little trainer he had striven to save. But he would not move. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Then+Ramsey%2C+the+B engal+tiger%2C+crouched+and+leap ed.+Wallace+reared+up+to+meet+hi m.+He+caught+the+tiger+full+in+t he+throat%22&hl=en&tbm=bks&oq=%2 2Then+Ramsey%2C+the+Bengal+tiger %2C+crouched+and+leaped.+Wallace +reared+up+to+meet+him.+He+caugh t+the+tiger+full+in+the+throat%2 2&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...58899.67442.0.67681.3.3 .0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.msedr...0...1a c.1.34.heirloom-serp..3.0.0.5sdLz9VQ1ys

Big Leo


http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/79678972

Cheongi:


Samson:


Rover:

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22Then+o ne+day+the+tiger+confronted+a+li on+and+a+terrible+duel+followed+ at+the+end+of+which+the+tiger+la y+dead.+WANTON+KlLLlNG%22


King Edward:

kills Dan the bengal tiger~The American magazine 

https://www.google.com/search?q=King+edward+the+lion+da n+the+bengal+zora+&tbm=bks&tbo=1 &gws_rd=ssl



http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/78539922?searchTerm=leopard%20tiger%20fight%20cage&searchLimits=sortby=dateDesc

Regal:


Lesson of the Lion TamersA large male lion named Regal had a dominating presence in the center ring, but that did not stop a puma in the same act from showing his resentment. At the end of every performance, as the big cats returned to their cages, the puma passed Regal’s pedestal and reached up, quickly clipping Regal on the leg. This continued for many weeks. As the lion tamer described: "I knew that real trouble was building, but I couldn’t think of any way to stop it. The animals are trained to leave the arena in a certain order; I couldn’t send Regal out first and so get him out of the puma’s way. I was afraid to interfere directly between the two animals; if I should chase Regal down from his seat, there almost certainly would have been a fight."Ultimately, "Regal decided to end the annoyance." "This time, when I cued the puma to go back to his cage, Regal was ready. Just as the puma was passing but before he had time to reach up and clip the lion, Regal leaned down and swung with such a haymaker as I have neverBefore seen. He caught the puma on the side of the neck, striking with such force that he severed the head from the body as cleanly as though it had been cut off by a headsman’s ax. The puma’s body fell limp at the foot of Regal’s pedestal, and the head flew across the arena, struck the bars on the far side and rebounded, to drop on the ground like a spent ball… "Regal was still on his seat. I cued him to go to his cage, and he got down, stepped across the blood that was flowing from the puma’s body, and returned to his cage. His attitude was that of one who has performed a necessary, though perhaps unpleasant duty. He had removed an annoyance, and there was nomore to be said on the subject. When he returned to the arena for the next performance,he never even glanced at the place where the puma had been.
"http://recruitusmc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Katz-Lion-Taming_-Working-Successfully-with-Leaders-Bosses-and-Other-Tough-Customers-Sourcebooks-Inc.-2004.pdf

Boss tweeds:

 


Boss Tweed," Clyde said, "was one of the greatest fighters I've ever seen, in addition to his noble looks. He did some of his cleverest fighting in the Rochester Massacre. That was this spring. When Iwo score of lions and tigers were in the arena for a dress rehearsal. One, on a high seat, reached down to take a cuff at the cat below. They frequently do that without much happening. But in this case the caton the- high scat fell off and landed on the one below. The one below, thinking he was attacked, started to fight. In a second it was a free-for-all. In such a fight the lions have two distinct advantages. Their first is their thick mane which prevents the tigers from getting to their throats. Their second is their clannish way of ganging up on a tiger. A tiger will justwatch another tiger being attacked. The lions join each other. An animal attendant excitedly raised a gate into the shoot so the beasts could return to their cages. Into the shoot ran three Bengal tigers with Boss Tweed in pursuit. "For twenty minutes they battled. Boss Tweed killed the three tigers, but himself was almost torn to ribbons. He recovered but somehow he never seemed to be the same. His spirit or his fighting nerve was gone. The other morning I opened his cage door and he was dead, for seven years I trained him, the longest of any of my cats. I was greatly attached to him. 

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/195707/

Lets see it then majing, show us the faces of all these alleged accounts of tigers killing lions, either or...you dont have all that much because it almost never happens against a large maned lion, only a few exist, compared to vice versa...stop denying things.

What the indian lion looked like when they were more wide spread, had natural selection, and as healthy as their barbary ancestorshttp://www.artnindia.com/product/ind...al-nature-art/

Another Indian sportsman tells us, that the lion, though not so swift as the tiger, is generally stronger and more courageous.
https://books.google.com/books?id=mQ...0india&f=false

The Parbati flows due north for 80 miles, and falls into the Chambal in the extreme north-eastern corner of the territory. It forms the eastern boundary of the State for a considerable portion of its length, separating it from Tonk on the south and from Gwalior on the north. The rivers contain trout and mahsir, besides other fish; crocodiles are numerous, and those in the Chambal are of large size. There are no natural lakes, but numerous small artificial tanks, for irrigation purposes, have been made by throwing masonry embankments across water-courses.

The wild animals of the State include the 'golden ' lion, the tiger, panther, four species of leopards, two of cheetahs (hunting leopard), hyaena, wolf, bear, jackal, wild dog, etc.; the bison, the sdmbhar, the nflgau, the chital (spotted deer), and antelope. Kotah is celebrated for its parrots; birds of every variety abound.
https://books.google.com/books?id=14...0tiger&f=false

Lions And Tigers Killed By The Officers Of The 2nd CenTral India Horse—A party out with Col. Gibbard from the 9th April to the 1st of June bagged twenty-four tigers, three panthers, and one bear. AVe arc given to understand that the officers of the 2nd regiment of Central India Horse for the past two years have bagged from thirty to forty tigers ; last year they killed thirty six, and during the time the regiment has been stationed at Augur and Goona they have shot from 300 to 350 lions
https://books.google.com/books?id=DG...0india&f=false

GAYA

The Chinese pilgrim Fa Hian tells us that in his time (A.D. 4.00) the hills were thickly wooded and were full of lions, tigers, and wolves, so that travellers had to be cautious.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bk...e+cautious.%22

Like an army with an infantry fully armed, Galloping horses, huge elephants and chariots, Or lordly lions killing tigers,
https://www.google.com/search?sclien....0.wnPqhFKZXXM

SITAPUR

On Monday, the 25th, we crossed over the River Mohan into Naipfllese territory, having spent the Sabbath at the villag ._of Lfilttpore, where, as usual, we preached Jesus to crowds of interested people.Passing throughforests, jungles, and tall tiger-grass, and not far from the place where elephants, lions and tigers abound, on the 26th we reached Gola Mundy, an important trading post. 80 miles northeast of Sitapur
https://books.google.com/books?id=2b...0tiger&f=false

BASTI

(panther), the Cheeta and the Babbra — 'which is white, has long hair about the head' — a description indicating the existence of lions.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%28panthe r%29%2C+the+Cheeta+and+the+Babbr a+%E2%80%94+%27which+is+white%2C +has+long+hair+about+the+head%27 +%E2%80%94+a+description+indicat ing+the+existence+of+lions.#hl=e n&tbm=bks&q=+basti+%22Babbra+%E2 %80%94+%27which+is+white%2C+has+ long+hair+about+the+head%27+%E2% 80%94+a+description+indicating+t he+existence+of+lions.%2

SHARANPURAs

late as the beginning of the 19th century Hamilton referred to lions existing in vast numbers in the Saharanpur districts, ...https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bk...r+districts%22


t:

Heres the follow up:



Queen of france 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_of_Valois

an exploit of this description, attended with more than ordinary peril, marked the commencement of Crichton's amour with Marguerite de Valois. A combat of animals had been commanded. Scaffoldings, reared around the court, were graced with the flower and loveliness of the land.A fiercely-contestedfight between the ruler of the forest and the sole disputant of his sway, the striped tiger, had terminated in the defeat of the latter. With mane erect and paw heavily imposed upon the lacerated breast of his antagonist, the kingly brute, still growling with rage, glared defiance at the assemblage; when, and amid the bush of silent admiration that succeeded his victory, was heard the light musical laugh of the Queen of Navarre, and the next moment her embroidered kerchief fell at the feet of the slaughtered tiger.
https://books.google.com/books?id=jL...atter.&f=false

You an any nut job from wildfacts whole principles is only upon size:
 


So it is accepted that the larger tigers still only average in all around at 420 lbs, not including the sundarban tigers which would drop the sub-species of the bengal to around 350 lbs. But as illustrated a 500 lb bengal tiger is rare, a 600 lb pounder is extreme and a 700 lb bengal tiger is once in a life time...wow...who gives a shit, we know there weights, continuingly bringing up weights, over and over again, does what? Which would prove would beat the other, a hundred documents of boxer A froms of showing he out weighs boxer B...or...a 100 documents of boxer B, whooping, and defeating boxer A...Hmm? You guys dont have anything that proves that tigers have beaten lions other than alleged accounts, lionesses, or young ones. 1 or two times would prove nothing neither, you would need a consistency. You have none in any aspect, not even weights, since I can show more lions out weighing tigers.








  1. Artifact from french men of india 1840:




    Epic scene in calcutta 1884


    Alfred Bunn, manager of Drury Lane, attested to the scene. "The boldest in the Royal suite speedily retreated"after a lion sprang at a tiger, which had secured the largest piece of meat, and the animals crashed against the side of the cage with such force that it seemed they would break through. "But the youthful Queen", Bunn continued, "never moved either face or foot. With look undiverted and still more deeply riveted she continued to gaze on the novel and moving spectacle" (Bunn 1840: 154).https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=bgsu129 1994738&disposition=inline


    steel engraving - in 1844 scene India


    Eugène verboeckhoven


    The ferocity of the tiger's disposition has been exaggerated; but although capable of being made quite gentle, they are unreliable in their habits, and apt at any instant to attempt the gratification of a blood-thirsty disposition. Keepers of menageries, however much confidence they may feel in the friendship of the "king of beasts," are always nervous about the tiger, and cautious in their movements. We think it was Van Amberg who was unexpectedly set upon by a tiger, when the lion came to his rescue, and actually threw the tiger down, and held him fast until the man escaped.
    http://www.harpers.org/archive/1855/05/0037640 

    Think this is the incident the lion saved the trainer in birmingham:



    Some accounts of lions and tigers from another source:
    http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4185765312?pn=1

    The lion of Bombay
    So stop with the charade...either quote the quotes, or weigh eaches credence with supplying proper refutes and facts.


Edited by Prime - 13-Apr-2016 at 02:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2016 at 19:29
Catlion, this is AE, not that sleezeball wordpress site. Keep it civil, keep it friendly, or you can just keep it, period.

This thread is approaching the category "more trouble than it's worth".

If I lock it, it will stay locked, and I'm very close.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2016 at 10:22
Originally posted by Catlion

Majin, you do not know what you are talking about.

Male lions very often, not always, face two or three opponents and fights.
 
They face them when they have no other choice, when they're cornered, and they get killed. For your poin to be valid said lone male fighting would have to win the fight, which is never the case.

So your point is lost.

Originally posted by Catlion

I have seen that always it is the smaller tiger that ends up winning against the bigger one (Cannyons fight to the death,
Yeah, the "smaller" male was at the same time the older, more experienced.
 
Originally posted by Catlion

Final 16 being humiliated and punished by all the other much smaller tigers in Everland
What you leave out is the fact that the footage you mention is from when he was just a sub-adult... When he became an adult, he had to be removed, so powerful he was.

Originally posted by Catlion

What decides the dominant tiger in an area is the one who is more in shape due to age, previous feeding, etc.
I don't know what "previous feeding" has to do with anything.

What decides the dominant tiger is, quite simply, who's the best among the two, and that is decided through fighting.
Info from: http://www.tigerwalah.com/season-round-up-kanha/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
Originally posted by Season Round Up: Kanha

A report of tiger sightings in Kanha Tiger Reserve ,season 2014-15.
During this season there were 5 males altogether in Mukki. Umarpani was the dominant male of the zone who had a tough rival namely ‘the Kingfisher male’. In the last few years Mukki was dominated by ‘Thin stripes male’ who was probably the father of Babathenga female’s last litter, but he was thrown out by the combined effort of Umarpani male, Kingfisher and Bheema. He had ruled all over mukki zone for almost four years, starting from 2010.The charge was taken over by the remaining four males once Thin Stripes male left Mukki, i.e. the Umarpani male, Kingfisher, Bheema and Link 7 male. Link 7 male was the main attraction of this season, a true show stopper. I would say that he was the most photographed Tiger in kanha this season after Munna.

Umarpani male and Kingfisher males were engaged in a very serious fight on 3rd of Jan 2015 in Singarpur meadow, which was documented by tourists. If I say this was the lifetime sight for people who witnessed it, won’t be wrong. They kept on fighting for three more months and both sides sustained heavy damages, but kudos to the forest department who kept their eyes on and gave medical assistance from time to time to both Tigers. Nature has its own ways of balancing the things in the jungle, but I would thank the forest department who saved the life of both males

Do you see how it changes when sources from real, wild tigers are used?..


Edited by Majingilane - 12-Apr-2016 at 10:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2016 at 02:36
Majin, just read all the info in this thread and you will learn a lot.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2016 at 02:33
Majin, you do not know what you are talking about.

Male lions very often, not always, face two or three opponents and fights. Something never seen among tigers since they are solitary animals.

Apart from this, just looking at the vids in the Internet, I have seen that always it is the smaller tiger that ends up winning against the bigger one (Cannyons fight to the death, Final 16 being humiliated and punished by all the other much smaller tigers in Everland, the best fighting tiger against a lion the smaller one in the Big Cage, and too many more etceteras....).

The best fighting tiger in my opinion is the Sumatran, the worst the Amur. Bigger sub-species and individuals get clumsier and slower. What decides the dominant tiger in an area is the one who is more in shape due to age, previous feeding, etc.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 22:07
Originally posted by Catlion

Probably, size means more lions because to their specific style of fighting, mostly based in hitting and striking. The bigger the male lion the more devastating the strike. Same as in the case of boxers where weight matters a lot.
No. What is important to them is the size of the coalition. Two smaller males can easily defeat a much bigger lone male, no matter his size or agression or whatever. 

Here it goes an example from the wild.
This male is called Mabande, he's said to weight around 250 kg, so he's in the upper limit of the lion weights.
These two, on the other hand, are sub-adult males, the young Ross males.
So, what happened? Simple. They chased, he ran.
(Apologies for the large pics, I can't make them smaller.)
The same applies when you keep adding lions.

Originally posted by Catlion

Concerning tigers and all the rest of phanterines, weight may even mean a handicap since among there the crucial factor when fighting becomes agility and speed.
No. It is the exact opposite thing.

Size is everything to a lone male, because in most cases is what it ends up determining who is the dominant male.

That's why a lone animal has to wait until he's grown enough to add muscle mass, to add size, otherwise the current dominant males can best them easily.


Edited by Majingilane - 10-Apr-2016 at 22:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2016 at 05:41
Probably, size means more lions because to their specific style of fighting, mostly based in hitting and striking. The bigger the male lion the more devastating the strike. Same as in the case of boxers where weight matters a lot.

Concerning tigers and all the rest of phanterines, weight may even mean a handicap since among there the crucial factor when fighting becomes agility and speed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2016 at 07:16
The faces of lions and tigers in the artefacts above depict almost perfectly the different emotions in each cat: the lion's rage and the tiger's fear. This is so specially concerning the porcelains from China, where the high artistic level of the work is projected to the description of a real fact, a real fight that at the eyes of the artist reflects a universe of emotional tension.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2016 at 09:06
Yes. It seems a bit surprising. But it is as though there would exist many more accounts of panthers and leopards killing male tigers than the other way round. Also, more cases of female tigers killing male tigers.

Also, the bigger the tiger the worst as a fighter is: clumsier, slower, etc. Since the tiger does not use efficiently his size and weight advantage, the likelihood of a Sumatran killing a Bengal or an Amur is higher than the opposite. Always the tiger's throat is the core of this weakness, combined with a fighting style leaving this vulnerable part unprotected.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2016 at 16:04



wow, what happen to the days where lions were twice as small as tigers, that tigers dwarf lions, that tigers average 850 lbs an lions only 300 lbs. Or that the biggest tiger was 1,200 lbs and the biggest lion was only 826 lbs. Now on carnivora you have every tiger fan there that cant even show a single tiger in the 20th century in the wild that goes passed asads 270 kg lion. lol
<span style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">Lord Ivory, a 900 pound lion at jungle island:</span><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;"><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">http://traveltips.usatoday.com/miami...ren-25127.html
<span style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">Leo krugeri (white lions)</span><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;"><span style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">5 feet tall, 650-950 lbs</span><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">https://prezi.com/ib03rqqf9yhs/endarn/<br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">
<br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;"><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;"><span style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">As for Brutus, the lion, Ambrose is currently trying to prove that he has the largest lion in captivity.Brutus weighs 870</span><br style="color: rgb80, 80, 80; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 14.079px; line-height: 19.1052px;">https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bk...+weighs+870%22
As if the weights even matter, if a leopard can kill a full grown wild bengal tiger, the weights literally mean nothing. Any sized lion as long as he has a big enough mane will have the edge over any 700+lb tiger. lol asad owning that thread, whats even more funny, is they have nothing when it comes to its species average, they always have to pick the largest like that means anything. They dont talk about the lack of protection around the neck, the weaker paw strikes, the actual accounts...because theres almost zero evidence in those subjects, I wouldnt be surprise that all the times we hear of a tiger found dead with bite marks on his neck in the wild, that leopards were the ones killing them an not rival tigers.





Edited by red clay - 04-Mar-2016 at 08:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2016 at 20:38
And conjoined some of the lions striking strength into one good post:

Quite impressive.

And check this out, we know theres several lions that killed multiple tigers, like Caesar, prince, boss tweeds and a few others...but how much tigers have killed more than one lion? So there was saba, and then sabre, both who killed two lions, quite impressive because thats 4 times lions lost...then I noticed, both killed the same amount, and...I said two of their names together several times...sabra saybre...saba sabre....saba...then I thought, these two could be basically the same tiger...so I looked at the dates, they arnt far off either:

1965, just because it said 1965, doesnt mean the tiger killed the lions on that date, they are only reporting the tigress incident:

PAWTUCKET


Saba is 13 years old, even if we go back 6 or so years, the tiger will still be in his prime:

1957




Clyde mentions he gave away sabre...he said he couldnt manage this specific tiger, I dought it was just because of the lions, since he said sabre killed several other tigers, which is 4 or more, hence was costing beatty to much money as tigers are alot more expensive...kinda like how he got rid of caesar when caesar killed the two tigers...this explains why the tiger sabre went on to kill another tigress at pawtucket later. which also confirms that sabre was a male, since the pawtucket account said, he and gestured tiger when mentioning the tigress too, since as counter strike showed, clyde called the tiger a he, then a she in different times, he also did this with Vinice, he called the tiger a she in the 1933 issue, than mentions the exact same roll over tiger and called vinice, a he, this isnt anything since beatty worked with 1,000's of tigers, so its not like he would remember all of them all the time. 


It mentions here in 1958 clyde and ringling, and pawtucket received animals from the circuses:

And exactly where was saba reported to have killed the tigress? Pawtucket...hence saba is sabre...aww  too bad, and here I thought before saba killed two hefty sized lions with 2 tigers accounted for 4 lions, yet counter strike showed the pictures of the nearly maneless males clyde had in the act at the time. So not only did tiger fans lose 2 extra accounts, the 2 that are accorded, are only young maneless males...just like dick clemens lions who were killed by the older lions, nearly maneless. Good one counter strike, we killed two birds with one stone on that one. Which means theres only a handful of times in all of history that fully maned males have been killed by tigers...if any at all.

sounds like hes basing this off a real event:

Consider the contrasting behavior when a lion and a tiger get into a fight in a circus show involving several lions and tigers. All the lions cooperate... As soon as the cooperating lions have killed the first tiger, they move to the second tiger, and then to the third.

Animal trainer Clyde Bcatty today mourned the loss of Poona, a big tiger who lost a battle to the death with two savage circus lions. The jungle beast, star of Beatty's pyramid animal act at the Shrine Circus, was stalking across the lion and tiger cage yesterday when the lions, Tarzan and Henry pounced on him. 

The other source says his name was toona, so this illustrates how the names can be slightly different even on the same accounts. it says the tiger was big, an that beatty mourned for his star attraction.

I always knew this lion here was a lioness but couldnt prove without the abstract saying so, now its confirmed, it was a lioness:


Huerta is a dam ladys name

Ive seen that account so many times, an every time I seen it, was like why would a male lion be given a female name. I also like how this article says...win for the lioness:

Screenshot (114)

Did lionesses too kill more male tigers, than male tigers have killed lionesses? I think so.

Heres a re-covered of the edward vs dan fight:

Its just hilarious how many articles say, the lion is not the king of beast, then shows a lion killing a tiger an no tigers killing lions. lol Courtney cooper just recovered the story, it was first on the american magazine, cooper in fact wasnt there for any of his fights he mentions.

Heres the whole account of a leopard killing a full grown male bengal tiger:

Screenshot (118)

Screenshot (116)

Screenshot (117)


I'm surprised the lion wasnt the savior, but then again...the leopard was probably a african leopard, looked at the lion and said...I got this.

Female boar kills full grown male bengal tiger:
Screenshot (121)

another tiger killed by a boar:


wild boar kills tiger, and croc kills tiger
Screenshot (122)


Edited by Prime - 03-Mar-2016 at 21:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2016 at 01:30
Hey thanks clay... wont happen again...gotta be smooth, and be cool. lol Thanks again.

Check this out:

Two lions kill a bengal and rip off his legs:


Thats pretty raw, those type of accounts pretty much shows that in india, tigers had no say in the lions disappearance. And look at this one, this is the whole fight from bostock, he mentions a tiger that killed other tigers and a jaguar (proves how vulnerable the neck is for maneless pantheras) and its now confirmed that the tiger the other source mentions about bostock, is a male...as the name Mentor, sounds more manly than feminine:

Screenshot (108)
Bostocks and hagenbecks pretty much lost just as much if not more tigers than beatty, atleast beatty unlike court, bostock and a few others didnt take it out on the animals an beat them or killed them outright, and had a more logical approach, instead of shooting the animal, beatty would let the rough neck crew of lions teach the animal a lesson in a brawl , so they calm down...hey a bit barbaric, but it beats shooting the animal. lol

I dont know where this person is sourcing it from:

ln the jungle the tiger was the rupst powerful and so he kept close to the tiger, fawning all about him. Then one day the tiger confronted a lion and a terrible duel followed at the end of which the tiger lay dead. 
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22Then+one+day+the+tiger+confronted+a+lion+and+a+terrible+duel+followed+at+the+end+of+which+the+tiger+lay+dead.+WANTON+KlLLlNG%22


But this one genuine:

No useful purpose is served, and the outcome is nearly always tragic, as when the lion killed its tigress spouse in the Bloemfontein Zoo. In 1952, four ligers (the result of a union between a lion and a tigress) were born in the Pretoria Zoo, but 

Heres the artifact in that same area of gujarat shows a lion defeating a tiger (bottom left)


Top left: Elephant and rhino fight
Top middle: Lion looking out on a rockery
Top right: Jungle scene

Bottom left: Lion biting the neck of a tiger
Bottom middle: Lion chasing a blue bull 
Bottom right: Running sambar

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/L...jectID=4886609

Another place in india, where they held fights was agra:


Theres several artifacts like that in india I mentioned before. 

Some new accounts of lions killing hippos:




Not far from this pride another pride in Linyanti Botswana specializes in killing Hippo.
http://www.botswana.co.za/Botswan...ife_Behaviour-travel/feeding.htm

lLions were seen regularly this month, but unusually, three or four of the male intruders appear to haveadopted new tactics in their hunting techniques. Three times, the lions killed adult hippos during thenight.
http://www.kwando.com/pdfs/October%202013.pdf

4 lions kill adult hippo, and 2 lions kill adult hippo
http://www.flatdogscamp.com/wp-conte...LIMB-TREES.pdf

Based on biomass, buffalo represented50% of the diet followed by hippopotamus (17%),
https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bit...df?sequence=11

two young male lions kill adult female hippo:The next day, the two intruders were found feeding on a female adult hippo which they appear tohave killed during the night.
http://www.kwando.co.za/pdfs/December%202014.pdf

Notch and the four males were seen near the saltlick on the Ntiaktiak River where they had killeda hippo. These lion have killed and fed off three hippos this month two of which were closeapparently a few days apart On the 20th the four notch males and the maternity pride killed a male hippo the other side of theTalek River on the Burrangat plains.
http://www.governorscamp.com/sites/d...12%20-%201.pdf

The Paradise Pride of lions are still living up to their formidable reputation of hunting hippo.The 5 younger male lions have apparently killed about 10 so far,
http://www.glorioussafaris.com/Governors.pdf

For several years, the pridewas regularly observed hunting adult hippos,http://globalsojourns.com/imagedump/...here_Lions.pdf


An still quite sure that the painting Johan wenzel peters did, was what the original mosaic shows in the house of faun:

rappresenta una tigre assalita da un leone, testimonianza di arte musiva
.

http://dipstorcristofor.altervista.o...3/12/Domus.pdf


That photo of the leopard isnt in the house of faun, its in the house of dove
s:

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&....0.yEYMBy-2WiA


http://www.romanoimpero.com/2010/01/pompei.html



https://books.google.com/books?id=vt...0tiger&f=false



Thats what I'm getting, the one everyone speaks of damaged couldnt be made out, until a duplicate was found, that duplicate was sent to the museum in naples:



It states in this book, that the mosaico of the lion attacking the tiger, was sent to the naples museum: 

Only fragments were found of the mosaic in the room next to the exedra (plate 79:15), a scene with a lion bringing down a tiger
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=bks&q=%22a+scene+with+a+lion+bringing+down+a+tiger%22&oq=%22a+scene+with+a+lion+bringing+down+a+tiger%22&gs_l=serp.3...5176.6415.0.6579.2.2.0.0.0.0.131.256.0j2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.93AGHMNmMEc

Found this one too:

Translated by a chinese source, it also gives credit to the old ehrya book of lions eating tigers in china:



...Lion body and relatively short, relatively tiger is moving faster, then the chance of winning the lion is almost 90%. Lions live in grasslands, good at capturing large run-type animal, and tigers live in the forest, usually prey on small animals, and is ambushed by fighting lion specializes in open areas, and is suitable for Tiger ambush in a hidden place, Prince of India in 1970 Lions and tigers will simultaneously put two entrance duct, in such encounters stations lion predictably beat tiger. 

it describes the lion would be more suitable for the survival of the wild open prairie, but in recent years also worldwide Lions beat Tiger is more than 70% winning percentage. Chinese lion due to the introduction of the social situation in China, it is destined to the 'quality' of the poor lion, but there are also defeated China tiger case.Suan fawn such as seedlings, food Butch." "Suan fawn" is an alias lion, meaning "lion, mighty, able to Haw Par for food."...Tiger suspicious, cunning, ferocious, somewhat similar to a people who commit crimes fugitives, but do not possess the king of the world turned tolerance. From this point you look in comparison tigers and lions can be seen. Tiger eyes more fierce, and the lion convey anger from the prestige dominance. Each head lion born a few months from the beginning of the test must accept battle, every adult male lion head is a ferocious combat experienced soldiers. The tiger is not. 

http://bbs.tianya.cn/m/post-free-5177517-1.shtml

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN_vzhTzMZg

With a seperate photo of the siberian that was killed by the lion cheongi in yonhap with a guy in it:
image

Atleast now we know that the bear killed by the lion baltimore, was 900 pounds:

And still cool that some russian guys got a hold of lion crest stuff:

we now know that one of the only people who backed the tiger only worked with young male lions (nearly maneless) 

thirteen went the crowd was mostly dead hordes tiger 

[출처] 본 기사는 조선닷컴에서 작성된 기사 입니다

is says hordes of tigers were killed by the lions, is that why the numbers were adjusted from 13:

125BF25D525B425EB9_idujonss4L4OQ9y.jpg

to 5 tigers:


were those the 8 tigers killed by the lions as the head keeper said hordes of tigers were killed by lions? as is that the reason why jeongsangjo said the lion posco and identity are dangerous have to always use cars to break up them from attacking tigers? could be...as the head keeper said again here the lion is always the winner:

two representing the lion and tiger, feline 'Big Star' is a one-to-one who yigilkka glued to? The winner of this fight will be the same "king of beasts

[출처] 본 기사는 조선닷컴에서 작성된 기사 입니다




So everland is kinda like beatty, they lost many tigers to lions, but hardly any lions to tigers:

Look at the white tiger:
Screenshot (70)ite

quite similar to the artifact:
original.jpg
Melvin koonzt, frack bostock, clyde beatty, and practically every trainer has said that the lion has a devastating blow from the paw, and almost no trainers attribute that quality of strength to the tiger, heres too, louis roth who said a lions paw is powerful:
Screenshot (106)


seen this one else where
Screenshot (107)

A lone lion who killed a pretty big elephant:


I just dont see it at this point, the size difference between the two is significant, weight or length of a heavier or longer tiger is still not gona amount to the stature of how large the lion is in the front and upper bodyis.



As this hunter stoneham, says, the lion is the king of the two, the tiger being faster, the lion...stronger:




1900年明治年左右手工雕刻“狮虎罐”虫罐一只-图1

Which this one, is kinda similar to the hideoyashi dog which killed a tiger, it shows that without the mane, even a dog can get at the neck of a tiger:
This is because the tiger does not have a mane, which means even a dog can get the tigers neck
dogs-chasing.jpg

The breeding programme hopes to scientifically spread the genetic diversity of the remaining Siberian tigers across the world&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp;

Main weapon is also different. Tiger is quickly sliding the back foot with two paw stand standing up to attack the other. Mainly writes 'being hit' method. Jeompeuryeok and also excellent flexibility.

Lion Kill the other one blew heavy punches dog paw discards breath to ask. Speed ​​is also excellent.

http://blogs.chosun.com/hbjee/2008/12/19/%ED%98%B8%EB%9E%91%EC%9D%B4%EC%99%80-%EC%82%AC%EC%9E%90-%EB%88%84%EA%B0%80-%EC%85%80%EA%B9%8C/





Edited by Prime - 29-Feb-2016 at 05:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2016 at 14:56

1954 Gill gray circus lion noted to have killed two tigers:
Screenshot (53)


Screenshot (54)


Screenshot (55)


As the tiger's neck was for a second fully exposed, the bear's head shot out from between his shoulders, swift as a striking snake, and the next instant his jaws clamped together like a trap of death and his knife-like fangs cut through skin, muscle and bone until they met in the vital knot at the base of the neck. As if struck by lightning, the tiger's head sank back and his clutching paws stiffened and loosed their...Not until the striped body lay stark and still did the bear open his jaws and, lurching to his feet, stand, a bloodstained ...

Federal officials have pointed to problems at both facilities. A 2007 U.S. Department of Agriculture inspection at Predator World noted three instances of animals getting out of their pens: two wolves that escaped into the community; a grizzly bear that remained on the property but was able to kill a tiger; and a fo



How and why would a tiger be more skilled at fighting from constantly running and being killed by wild dogs? Lions are more skilled in fighting because of their surroundings, they are constantly in battle with hyena:



How would those personas and quality's all of sudden change when both lion and tiger meet? They wont, the lion will always be the aggressor, the tiger will always be the cowardly, this is what their competitors has sculpted them into being.


Screenshot (57)

This is why most idealize the lion over the tiger, its because of their quality's, lions will attack anything that inversa attacks something weaker or not in fairness:
Screenshot (59)





These are noble quality's, which tigers are not accustomed to. 

The tiger cannot bear too much sun or heat:


Nero was a pretty big lion, now if the tiger tim had a mane like nero, most likely he wouldnt have been killed so fast:

Buffalo kills tiger:


Buffalo fight back, and one has been seen to up and kill two tigers

This date is in september, the original was in july:
Thursday, September 30, 1909


This is the original, and it states july (which is before September)

Just like martials epigrams the more articles cover it, the more the story changes, all the articles went from might have to be shot, to now he was shot...but whats the difference...look at the dates, that one you just reported was in september 1909, the original took place in july, why didnt all the 100s of news articles report it there and then that the lion died and was shot? Thats because he wasnt, that same lion attacked the tiger again:

Almost a year later and the lion is still alive and still attacking the tiger:

Even as he bowed I fancied that he kept an eye on the tigers. Stung by the lash of the whip and mercilessly followed up by the gray-eyed Plattdeutscher. the snarling beasts gave way to him and reluctantly took their seats upon the various benches which were attached to the bars .separating the arena from the spectators. Seven In all-fine lions and two tigers-with their backs toward us. hungrily eyed the tamer while he placed stools in various positions ready for his act. Another crack of the whip and the first lion sprang from his seat and took his place on the stool. One after another the other animals reluctantly took their places: the trainer took a position in the middle of the circle of man-eaters, an! at his word of command a great lion in the center rose on his haunches and placed his front paws on the shoulders ot Falkendorf. Placing the stools in different positions, other formations were made, each seemingly more dangerous than the last. The huge maw of one beast was opened wide by Falkendorf, with a hand on each side. The musicians suddenly ceased blowing and fiddling, and the blonde head of the lion tamer was thrust Into the mouth of the lion. Driving the animals back to their seats the trainer had stooped to pick up a stool when a tiger sprang on him and felled him to the floor. His back had been turned, and the leap was one of at least 15 feet I heard two shots fired, and saw one Of the largest lions spring upon the tiger with bristling neck hair and switching tail. It was over quickly. The supple Hon tamer regained his feet, gave the tiger a taste of another blank cartridge, and with the Hon looking on with approval he rained blow after blow upon the tiger at a point Just underneath its jaw

1910 august (which is after 1909)






Ha ha ha, look back at the article, it states there were 7 lions and 2 tigers...the article a year later says...7 lions and 2 tigers, if Prince the lion or Caesar was killed, wouldnt there have been only 6 lions performing? Ha ha ha, much like the idiotic extra article of the alipore zoo:

image

What really happened there:




Fritchman's Eland tipped the scales at over 4,000 pounds 



CHAPTER X THE KING OF BEASTS the smallest tenting circus has a liongroup of alleged man-eaters from the jungle, for notwithstanding the claims of tigers, the lion is the most spectacular wild beast, with a roar that makes timid folk shudder. The average lion is heavier and bigger than a tiger. In mixed groups it is usually a lion that makes the first move to fight, and he is quickly assisted by his brothers, for lions invariably form alliances when it comes to a battle. The biggest lions of the circus world stand 5 feet high at the shoulder,and are about to feet long, with a weight of 550 pounds As the chief representative of the family Felidae, lions well repay study, both in the circus ring, and more conveniently in menagerie cages. There is usually a crowd before the lion cages, quite thrilled to see the king 101. ...

Screenshot (60)


Sheep killed a tiger:


stronger lion. I have, in fact, evidence of a lion killing a panther, the fight being a totally one-sided affair. ... There has been much speculation about whether the lion or the tiger were once in conflict and if so, as to which would have been the 

Diad (Deesa).—This is a very hot station, but still much liked on account of the abundance of sport of all descriptions in the vicinity. It is the sole place in the known world where the lion and tiger prowl in the same jungles.

Underneath the drawing of the lion, you may see, in the distance, a rather slylooking animal stealing along gently, which is called the Tiger. This animal is said to be much more cruel and cowardly than the lion, and to be even more bloodthirsty; but all writers do not agree on this subject. In India the tigers are the terror of man, and the animals ofthe jungle. The jungles of India, where sometimes the grass grows to nearly the height of an elephant, is the tiger's sleeping place. In the evening, the tamer animals wander down to the side of the river, to drink and refresh themselves after the heat of the day; then the tiger is found there too, waiting for them. Many fierce and bloody combats with lions, tigers, and crocodiles are said to take place near the Ganges and other rivers ofIndia.

 The lion, which was long supposed to be unknown in India, is now ascertained to exist in considerable numbers in the districts of Saharunpoor and Loodianah. Lions have likewise been killed on this side the Ganges in the northern parts of Rohilcund, in the neighbourhood of Moradabad and Rampoor, as large, it is said, as the average of those in the neighbourhood of the Cape of Good Hope. Both lions, where they are found, and tigers, are very troublesome to the people of the villages near the forest, who, having no elephants,

The district lying between this village, Tuwukkul and Lukeeke, is the favourite resort of lions and tigers: a few days previous to our arrival the inhabitants killed a very large tiger; and on the 7th we saw the recent traces of a lion, in a tamarisk jungle, 

https://books.google.com/books?id=P1YoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA154&dq=%22india%22+lion+tiger++%22village+of%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidntrKgeTKAhUS5mMKHXEBDdYQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22india%22%20lion%20tiger%20%20%22village%20of%22&f=false


lol hey counter strike, check this out, this account is from your debater there, ry or atleast his original name pckts...this is part of his so called list of tigers killing lions, little did he know...this came from the same 1932 issue that the movie the big cage dug up, what? yup, none other than clyde beatty:

jdfnbhjegvbh 70000



Heres a big...big peice of the story that they left out:


The secret of much of the power which a trainer has over wild animals," said Beatty, "is their instinctive fear of a human being. A man never ceases to be a...Many a trainer has been maimed or killed by an animal which had virtually been considered a pet. "Of the forty-two lions and tigers sit quietly on their pedestals within the iron circus cage, apparently so many well-broken cats at peace with the world and their trainer. Across the arena, crouched close against the ground, Bredo the tiger, creeps toward his stand. The trainer...and twelve tigers, and resulted in the death of three of the tigers and the serious injury of several of the lions.tiger in a finish fight. A IN THE ARENA In the cage will power and sheer nerve arethe trainer's most important asset.

https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&q=The+secret+of+much+of+the+power+which+a+trainer+has+over+wild+animals%2C%22+said+Beatty%2C+%22But+the+question+of+individual+supremacy+is+still+unsettled%2C+though+I+would+be+inclined+to+favor+a+tiger+in+a+finish+fight.+A+IN+THE+ARENA+In+the+cage+will+power+and+sheer+nerve+are+the+trainer%27s+most+important+asset.+He+knows+all+the+animals+intimately+and+he+can+judge+their+moods+at+a+glance.+lion+stands+on+its+feet+while+fighting%2C+but+a+tiger+gets+the+full+advantage+of+its+deadly+claws%2C+as+well+as+its+teeth%2C+by+lying+on+its+back+and+striking+upward+with+all+four+feet.+In+this+way+it+often+inflicts+terrible+wounds.%22


So it was clyde beatty who said in gang fights, the 5 tigers were killed in 1932, add that to trudy who was killed by prince, and pasha who was killed by nero, and several other cases all validate his 25 tigers were killed statement, and the lions hes talking killed were killed by other lions, via bessie the lioness from sammy, and two other occasions...hence this is why in this article clyde said he thought the tiger would win in a 1 on 1 fight:

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpg/6884a4ea962d4a6285be8808bddd64bf.jpg


So it all changed in 1933 when he made the big cage movie, he then stated at the end...from now on, I'll bet on the lion:

cf00666b8c9d4fad96b2fed83a9f2325.png



lol So what is peter going to say about the mighty and heavily biased beatty now? He once favored the tiger, how can he be bias? until he saw Sultan kill tommy in a fair 1 on 1 no hold bars fight with a wild tiger to the death...lol that means they just lost 3 so called tiger killing lion accounts and the inability to call Clyde bias...of course beatty favored the tiger at that point, he was asked hundreds of times of fanatics who yelled at him no the tiger wins...and as he send out scientist to look for answers via roy chapman andrews, and more... they all kept telling him that the tiger would win because all the papers always stated the tiger made short work of the lion bit but actually are quoting misinformed accounts like sleeping lionesses, young lions, and other fictional stuff, hence the articles prior to 1933, has beatty saying he wasnt sure and that it would be foolish to make a conclusive answer if he hasnt seen what most would call a fair fight or the best vs the best (neither did they, they just wanted it so, like mebel stark who in her own movie proved her self wrong lol), he even says he himself read countless of books in how the tiger was suppose to be unbeatable, yet his long years of seeing hundreds of fights has proven at the end of his career that he knows upon experience that the lion is the usual victor.


Good article by the way counter strike, much like how he says it in his book:

0bf7b04a96c14d8f8e479a6704893830.png


5414e602aed34ec4b2cce0049e4b493c.png866c43dcc4994415a8e1008c1e25baa7.png



[​IMG]

Again, thats in 1951, so...we still add in this one years after he stated it in 1954:
During their first performance this spring and during the act two lions attacked and killed a tiger Mr. Beatty stayed in the cage during the entire fight to keep the other animals from getting into it - - - Mr. Beatty says no matter how well you think you know a tiger or lion, you still cannot trust'them The quiet ones are often the most dangerous 

Plus the lion france which killed two tigers, and I think there was 2 other incidents after makes it almost 60 accounts of lions killing tigers of beattys career, whos to say there arnt more to be found by him? lol And cool, you found the sabre account, I knew of that one for a while, and was going to use it to trade peter an account for an account, since I know he knows more of lions killing tigers, some of his post were erased and I didnt jot them down at the time. But no worrys still a few more...if peter wants to play ball, I can give him 1 or two accounts of tigers killing lions if hes willing to trade for what he knows. lol 

Hilarious, they thought the guy boone was the trainer who said all that, he was only the interviewer...he was interviewing Clyde beatty, the one they all love to hate, because he inadvertently...proved that the bengal tiger is no match for the african lion, I think the only bet left for them is the olden day siberians, which I think could be big...but bengals already have been showing to lose to asiatic lions, so siberians most likely are the share holders as beatty once suggested.





Edited by Prime - 09-Feb-2016 at 04:42
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